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What is the most efficient setup for mining with main and an alt who have near identical skill sets?
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Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#21 - 2013-08-01 13:57:02 UTC
Daihoc wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
If you looking for max production with 2 mining accounts only, run a mack and a hulk. The hulk produces more then the mack so you can keep it in the belt the entire time, and you use your mack to haul for both characters.


That's what I figured but it seems that most swear by the Mack + Mack combination. Is the downtime of traveling back and forth from the station really that significant?


Mack+Mack combo is for people who do't feel like jetcanning ore after every cycle. With the Hulk+Mack combo you will do more travelling because you are mining more ore. Whether you take 1 trip on 2 accounts, or 2 trips on 1 account, you will still have to drop the ore off at the station and you will lose productivity. However since the Hulk mines more, and you can keep that in the belt the entire time, you will see a small increase in yield based off of the fact the Hulk pulls in more m3 per minute.

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Daihoc
Industrial Accidents Incorporated
#22 - 2013-08-01 13:57:24 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
If you looking for max production with 2 mining accounts only, run a mack and a hulk. The hulk produces more then the mack so you can keep it in the belt the entire time, and you use your mack to haul for both characters.

Think of this as basically a HULK with a dedicated Hauler, but the Hauler can mine efficiently when not Hauling, without switching ships. An itty 5 can haul just over 40,000m3, an ORCA can haul over 175,000m3 or ore with the right fit, But with only two accounts a dedicated hauler, even in an ORCA is a waste. A Mack can haul 35,000m3, and mines only slightly less than a HULK. However with the MAck/Hulk combo you will be making 6-7 trips back to station per hour.Depending on how fast you are dumping ore and getting back to the belt you may find the mack is spending very little time mining.


I know, I'm aware of this. There has just been a debate about whether using a Mack + Mack is more efficient than using a Hulk + Mack combination. I didn't think that the trade off of having to return to the station more often with 1 account was so significant.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#23 - 2013-08-01 13:57:55 UTC
Daihoc wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Daihoc wrote:


This leaves using two miners and benefiting from the basic fleet bonuses.


WHO is providing that bonus ??? Why not a hauler or an Orca ?

Back and forth to station is the biggest ISK/hour killer in mining, period.

You should know this,
One of the mining ship pilots can have the leadership skills and give fllet bonuses. You lose the bonus of the ganklinks, but the leadership bonus (up to 10% yield with implant) can still be applied by one of the pilots in a mining ship. Not an OCRA boost, but certainly worthwhile.


That's true. There is still a bit of a boost from the leadership skills themselves, not just by using the ganglinks. I have perfect leadership skills on my main so I'd be gaining something from that.

Not just a bit, it is 5% yield. That adds up.The ganklink only reduces cycle time, Which is a big part of the boost, but, all the other boosts, including the 10% yield from the mindlink, can be applied by a pilot in a mining ship. Would be sweet though, if a HULK could sacrifice a strip miner to equip the ganklink.
Daihoc
Industrial Accidents Incorporated
#24 - 2013-08-01 14:00:28 UTC
Hopelesshobo wrote:
Daihoc wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
If you looking for max production with 2 mining accounts only, run a mack and a hulk. The hulk produces more then the mack so you can keep it in the belt the entire time, and you use your mack to haul for both characters.


That's what I figured but it seems that most swear by the Mack + Mack combination. Is the downtime of traveling back and forth from the station really that significant?


Mack+Mack combo is for people who do't feel like jetcanning ore after every cycle. With the Hulk+Mack combo you will do more travelling because you are mining more ore. Whether you take 1 trip on 2 accounts, or 2 trips on 1 account, you will still have to drop the ore off at the station and you will lose productivity. However since the Hulk mines more, and you can keep that in the belt the entire time, you will see a small increase in yield based off of the fact the Hulk pulls in more m3 per minute.


That is exactly what I figured. The hulk would be in the belt the entire time, so there would only be 1 account traveling back and forth from the station at any given time, so the loss of yield would be the result of 2 lasers not being on a roid, where as if you are running two Macks, it would be the same at any given time, just less often.
Daihoc
Industrial Accidents Incorporated
#25 - 2013-08-01 14:02:37 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Daihoc wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Daihoc wrote:


This leaves using two miners and benefiting from the basic fleet bonuses.


WHO is providing that bonus ??? Why not a hauler or an Orca ?

Back and forth to station is the biggest ISK/hour killer in mining, period.

You should know this,
One of the mining ship pilots can have the leadership skills and give fllet bonuses. You lose the bonus of the ganklinks, but the leadership bonus (up to 10% yield with implant) can still be applied by one of the pilots in a mining ship. Not an OCRA boost, but certainly worthwhile.


That's true. There is still a bit of a boost from the leadership skills themselves, not just by using the ganglinks. I have perfect leadership skills on my main so I'd be gaining something from that.

Not just a bit, it is 5% yield. That adds up.The ganklink only reduces cycle time, Which is a big part of the boost, but, all the other boosts, including the 10% yield from the mindlink, can be applied by a pilot in a mining ship. Would be sweet though, if a HULK could sacrifice a strip miner to equip the ganklink.


I totally agree! It would definitely a huge benefit and some would probably argue an unfair one at that.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#26 - 2013-08-01 14:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Daihoc wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
If you looking for max production with 2 mining accounts only, run a mack and a hulk. The hulk produces more then the mack so you can keep it in the belt the entire time, and you use your mack to haul for both characters.

Think of this as basically a HULK with a dedicated Hauler, but the Hauler can mine efficiently when not Hauling, without switching ships. An itty 5 can haul just over 40,000m3, an ORCA can haul over 175,000m3 or ore with the right fit, But with only two accounts a dedicated hauler, even in an ORCA is a waste. A Mack can haul 35,000m3, and mines only slightly less than a HULK. However with the MAck/Hulk combo you will be making 6-7 trips back to station per hour.Depending on how fast you are dumping ore and getting back to the belt you may find the mack is spending very little time mining.


I know, I'm aware of this. There has just been a debate about whether using a Mack + Mack is more efficient than using a Hulk + Mack combination. I didn't think that the trade off of having to return to the station more often with 1 account was so significant.

Really it isn't. 2 Macks will have to make about 3 trips to station per hour each, so 6 trips, A Hulk and Mack combo, the Mack will have to make 6-7 trips to station per hour. That extra trip is due to mining more than 6 Mack loads worth of ore. So if the Mack Hulk combo is getting even half a load more per hour, that is a higher yield, so the better option if you are going for max yield.

The Mack Mack combo is preferable for those more interested in lower effort, no worries about transferring the Hulks yield to the Mack, or the Hulk mining to a jetcan while the Mack is gone. But if you do not mind the extra work, and risk of using jetcans, the Hulk Mack combo will bring in more ore. You can always use GSC's or freight containers rather than jetcans.
Daihoc
Industrial Accidents Incorporated
#27 - 2013-08-01 14:06:30 UTC
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:
There are many opinions. The best idea is to use the set-up you like and have fun using. Remember to fit sufficient tank to your mining vessels, collect and update knowledge of the 'locals', keep an eye on 'local' channel for any undesirables and hopefully enjoy yourself. Smile


I appreciate the new player tips but sadly, I am not a new player and it is not exactly the answer I was looking for. Smile
Daihoc
Industrial Accidents Incorporated
#28 - 2013-08-01 14:17:11 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Daihoc wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Hopelesshobo wrote:
If you looking for max production with 2 mining accounts only, run a mack and a hulk. The hulk produces more then the mack so you can keep it in the belt the entire time, and you use your mack to haul for both characters.

Think of this as basically a HULK with a dedicated Hauler, but the Hauler can mine efficiently when not Hauling, without switching ships. An itty 5 can haul just over 40,000m3, an ORCA can haul over 175,000m3 or ore with the right fit, But with only two accounts a dedicated hauler, even in an ORCA is a waste. A Mack can haul 35,000m3, and mines only slightly less than a HULK. However with the MAck/Hulk combo you will be making 6-7 trips back to station per hour.Depending on how fast you are dumping ore and getting back to the belt you may find the mack is spending very little time mining.


I know, I'm aware of this. There has just been a debate about whether using a Mack + Mack is more efficient than using a Hulk + Mack combination. I didn't think that the trade off of having to return to the station more often with 1 account was so significant.

Really it isn't. 2 Macks will have to make about 3 trips to station per hour each, so 6 trips, A Hulk and Mack combo, the Mack will have to make 6-7 trips to station per hour. That extra trip is due to mining more than 6 Mack loads worth of ore. So if the Mack Hulk combo is getting even half a load more per hour, that is a higher yield, so the better option if you are going for max yield.

The Mack Mack combo is preferable for those more interested in lower effort, no worries about transferring the Hulks yield to the Mack, or the Hulk mining to a jetcan while the Mack is gone. But if you do not mind the extra work, and risk of using jetcans, the Hulk Mack combo will bring in more ore. You can always use GSC's or freight containers rather than jetcans.


Well that definitely answers my question. The only advantage is having to do less work but then again, same goes for the Orca + Hulk setup. So for maximum ore production, the Hulk + Mack combination reigns supreme unless there are more accounts available of course.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#29 - 2013-08-01 14:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Daihoc wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Just freakin' mine already or do something else ingame if you are looking for the most efficient ISK.

You choice of Mack or Hulks here is only a matter of less than 2 M ISK per day depending.


So in other words, you don't know which combination is more efficient... but that 1 combination brings in 2M more. Well that definitely doesn't answer the question. Don't bother answering unless you read the question first.



Ship Veld/hour Mercit/hour Ice/hour
Hulk 1,739,139 2,749 73
Covetor 1,578,043 2,492 69
Mack 1,505,059 2,377 68
Retrieve 1,433,390 2,264 64
Skiff 1,380,788 2,185 61
Procurer 1,315,038 2,078 58



You can do your own math.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/73098

edit: But your attitude still sucks.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mos7Wan7ed
Hardcore Industries
#30 - 2013-08-03 05:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mos7Wan7ed
Daihoc wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Daihoc wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Daihoc wrote:
So, there has been a debate amongst my corp. on what the most efficient setup is when you have both a mining main character and alt. Now it has already been established that using an Orca for hauling isn't really viable unless you have 4 or more miners in the fleet getting boosts.



2 Hulks and an Orca Boosting is a common and extremely profitable and efficient setup, just so ya know.

That HAS been established.


Obviously our resources are different. Please refer to the following forum posting for clarity.
Is it worth it using an orca




Sorry.

I'm gonna base my information on my own 3 1/2 years of mining experience in probably every combo of equipment possible.

But you go ahead and not give it a try. Good Luck.


Perhaps I worded my question incorrectly. I have 2 accounts, not 3. I don't have a dedicated hauler/booster. So my question was whether using the combination of a Mack + Hulk was more or less efficient than using a Mack + Mack when it comes to quantity of ore produced.


In the case it is only you, mining with 2 Mackinaw would be more relaxing if your not micromanaging cargo holds and you don't need to leave the belt as often. The extra yield really isn't there to makeup for the extra attention required.

How many Hulks or Macks before you bring in an Orca only matters if you mine with others in a player corp. Deciding when to pull out the Orca can make a difference. Not sure how it got off track but it is still something good to know.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#31 - 2013-08-03 07:23:26 UTC
Daihoc wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Daihoc wrote:
So, there has been a debate amongst my corp. on what the most efficient setup is when you have both a mining main character and alt. Now it has already been established that using an Orca for hauling isn't really viable unless you have 4 or more miners in the fleet getting boosts.



2 Hulks and an Orca Boosting is a common and extremely profitable and efficient setup, just so ya know.

That HAS been established.


Obviously our resources are different. Please refer to the following forum posting for clarity.
Is it worth it using an orca



From the thread you quoted:

Syth spiting wrote:
As you can see with the Mindlink implant you will get better yields with and Orca + 2 Hulks over 3 Mackinaws, but without the implant you are receiving less yield per hour. The sweet spot now for use of an Orca is 3 Hulks + Orca.


And then take into account that those yield numbers are entirely theoretical and do not address asteroids popping or the actual hauling of material back to station.

A "perfect Orca" will provide a 50% boost to the fleet. So at three characters you will break even on yield between three mining ships or two mining ships and an Orca. Then you factor in hauling time and find that the Orca plus two mining ships is the better option, for yield per hour in a practical scenario.

Of course, if your orca pilot is not perfect the numbers change. So perhaps in your corp you have an orca pilot who is not perfect (all 5s, mining foreman mind link, T2 mining foreman links), at which point we agree with you that the Orca only becomes "better" when you have three mining ships to accompany the Orca. Of course this is once again ignoring the issue of hauling ore back to base.

Keep in mind that the price of the Mining Foreman Mindlink is going to drop by a factor of 10 with an upcoming patch, in which these links will be available through the CONCORD LP store.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#32 - 2013-08-03 10:25:04 UTC
Daihoc wrote:
This leaves using two miners and benefiting from the basic fleet bonuses. Now the question is, which exhumer setup is more efficient? A mackinaw with a hulk or a mackinaw with a mackinaw. When using the mackinaw with hulk combination, it forces you to make more trips to the station per time spent but you gain an additional laser.


If you are not running a stopwatch on each laser and stopping the laser mid-cycle, you're probably better off with a Skiff for asteroid mining. You will waste fewer cycles mining empty rock. The Hulk will waste more time mining empty rock.

So if you want to have more ore in your hangar at the end of a mining session, and you aren't interested in stopwatch timing each laser cycle, use two skiffs.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Dave Stark
#33 - 2013-08-03 10:56:38 UTC
the most efficient way to mine is to do any other activity in eve, and set up buy orders in jita.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#34 - 2013-08-03 12:28:20 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
the most efficient way to mine is to do any other activity in eve, and set up buy orders in jita.



For real. Prices are beyond dirt cheap now.

Believe it or not, I have not touched an ore belt since June 4 Odyssey release.

Ice Cycle Time halved + Low Sec PI = Fuel Blocks ftw now.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Dave Stark
#35 - 2013-08-03 17:46:01 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the most efficient way to mine is to do any other activity in eve, and set up buy orders in jita.



For real. Prices are beyond dirt cheap now.

Believe it or not, I have not touched an ore belt since June 4 Odyssey release.

Ice Cycle Time halved + Low Sec PI = Fuel Blocks ftw now.


i haven't touched mining since odyssey.

i realised if i canceled 2 of my 3 accounts then i'd be paying out less on plex and i'd still make the exact same isk/hour in incursions with 2 less accounts.
Fluffy Sheep
Contra Operative Knights
#36 - 2013-08-03 21:45:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffy Sheep
I don't mine to profit, more so to relax. Almost 2 years in game in deep null with 4 accounts and never once have I plexed any one of them due to my casual play style.

I'm currently in hisec where there's no pos bubble to sit my fleet booster in and feeling a little uneasy at everyone being unknown. so my efficency comes from factoring in the possible loss of my ships and finding that ballance between yield and some extra survivability which I know can never be guaranteed.

One hulk that jet cans and keeps me active with two macks that do the same, but after an hour or so start doing the hauling. All are fitted with a ballanced tank / yield fit (one dcu and shield extenders / resist modules). These toons are then boosted by the 4th in a Vulture that is also fitted with a ballanced tank / boost fit with a shield, not foreman implant... and all this in systems of 0.8 sec 'n above. Eve scares me but I seem to have found a ballance where I'm only slightly on edge but can still fill a freighter with ore if in the mood. :p

If you loose a ship, just what does that do to your overall efficency over a given period?

p.s. in my last 3 -4 months in null I didn't even mine. It was far easier and profitable to just bounce those toons around belts chewing up rats that were worth up to 1.8m in bounties each with the rare carrier / hauler spawn dropping large quantities of minerals. As a perfect skilled booster / miner it seemed I could mine more with less effort using guns. Go figure...
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