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Faction Points are the most impactful pvp mods.

Author
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#21 - 2013-08-01 03:30:49 UTC
i don't see them so often. But whenever i see pirate faction ships i pretty much expect high meta items on them when i decide to engage.

Decide for yourself if you take the risk and hope for a nice drop or not. OGBs sitting in small poses with 0 risk investment while throwing ships out of balance at the other side of the system are a different topic however.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#22 - 2013-08-01 03:34:47 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Phaade wrote:
People argue that SP is the largest roadblock to successfully PvP. I disagree. Money is.

The majority of fights (particularly in FW space) are dictated by those with a faction point. Scramming out to 14km and pointing out to 36km is ludicrous. They completely change the dynamics of a fight, granting those with that ability a massive advantage over those without.

Scramming, for obvious reasons will get your kiting ship caught much more easily than 10.8km, making it considerably easier to effectively use a brawling ship. Long points to 36 damn KM make them able to kite outside reasonable firing ranges while removing your ability to escape. You slingshot them to 29km, spamming warp, and nothing. Then you overheat your MWD to slingshot them to 36KM, and still nothing. These are the most PvP breaking mods, well aside from ECM, but that's another debate.



Its not usually a faction point - it is Loki Boosts.

A friend in an ECM ship is the way to counter them.
ECM is not broken while ever target damping is around.

The mistake you are making is flying alone. Fly with friends.



I bolded the part that needs emphasis.... Straight up, it is off grid boosts that are the roadblock.

Tengu Links can give a ship 125% more shield rep, well over 50% more shield tank. A full set of cyrstals AND a Strong blue pill doesn't even provide those boosts...
Legion Links give the same bonuses as the Tengu, except to armor.
Loki Links give 52% more web, scram, and point range (which is why you think they are using faction modules), as well as 35% more speed and a 35% smaller sig radius (which is often equivalent to a 20-30% damage reduction).
Proteus Links give 35% stronger EWAR, projected 35% farther, and a stronger resistance to jams.

A proper fleet can have thee of the above, but generally people take one ship, and put 3 full strength and 2 1/3rd strength boosts on the same ship.

Essentially, the strength of OGBers is Broken, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete moron.



Yes. A seperate full skilled leadership toon. That is hard countered by a seperate full skilled probing toon.

I am all for removal of boosting from inside posses. More expensive targets = better.

Scumbags like me who boost t1 frigates will think twice if we have to risk a tech 3 booster.
Cpt Arareb
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-08-01 03:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Arareb
IbanezLaney wrote:



Peoples problem with boosts isn't the boosts themselves - they are just pissed that they don't have them as well.
When offered, every one who says they don't like boosts will run with them - I have seen this behavior too many times in eve.



the problem with boosts (offgrid boosts) is that the damn ship is invulnerable, cant be killed unless you kill the damn pos to get to the ship, I mean how the hell is that so dificult to understandUgh

is not a matter of if you can or not have one is a matter that you cant atack it, you cant destroy it, and that is what is broken and as you already saw even CCP is not happy with the way offgrid boosters work, they simple go against what eve is about, risk vs rewards, what risk you getting using a booster inside a invulnerable shield that give 150% more reward (or something) none, unless you somehow screw up (99,9% impossible??)

another thing, you say eve is not about 1v1, EVE is a sandbox, a sandbox, I say again a sandbox Roll I play wiith my friends, and I play alone (1v1?) sandboxAttention
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#24 - 2013-08-01 04:15:16 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Phaade wrote:
People argue that SP is the largest roadblock to successfully PvP. I disagree. Money is.

The majority of fights (particularly in FW space) are dictated by those with a faction point. Scramming out to 14km and pointing out to 36km is ludicrous. They completely change the dynamics of a fight, granting those with that ability a massive advantage over those without.

Scramming, for obvious reasons will get your kiting ship caught much more easily than 10.8km, making it considerably easier to effectively use a brawling ship. Long points to 36 damn KM make them able to kite outside reasonable firing ranges while removing your ability to escape. You slingshot them to 29km, spamming warp, and nothing. Then you overheat your MWD to slingshot them to 36KM, and still nothing. These are the most PvP breaking mods, well aside from ECM, but that's another debate.



Its not usually a faction point - it is Loki Boosts.

A friend in an ECM ship is the way to counter them.
ECM is not broken while ever target damping is around.

The mistake you are making is flying alone. Fly with friends.



I bolded the part that needs emphasis.... Straight up, it is off grid boosts that are the roadblock.

Tengu Links can give a ship 125% more shield rep, well over 50% more shield tank. A full set of cyrstals AND a Strong blue pill doesn't even provide those boosts...
Legion Links give the same bonuses as the Tengu, except to armor.
Loki Links give 52% more web, scram, and point range (which is why you think they are using faction modules), as well as 35% more speed and a 35% smaller sig radius (which is often equivalent to a 20-30% damage reduction).
Proteus Links give 35% stronger EWAR, projected 35% farther, and a stronger resistance to jams.

A proper fleet can have thee of the above, but generally people take one ship, and put 3 full strength and 2 1/3rd strength boosts on the same ship.

Essentially, the strength of OGBers is Broken, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete moron.



Yes. A seperate full skilled leadership toon. That is hard countered by a seperate full skilled probing toon.

I am all for removal of boosting from inside posses. More expensive targets = better.

Scumbags like me who boost t1 frigates will think twice if we have to risk a tech 3 booster.


There are still work arounds. I could put my off grid booster inside a gated plex, powering out to 500 km's from the warp in. Probe all you like, you'll land on the gate, far far from the booster.

Then there are the Undock & boost, redock crowd. And there are the sit on a gate boosters. Both of which can be alpha'd with enough tornado's, but are still pretty much invulnerable to most small roaming gangs.

I support most steps to make boosters more vulnerable. At the same time, that isn't enough! Fleet boosters are simply too potent for their "investment" and risks.
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#25 - 2013-08-01 04:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizvig
IbanezLaney wrote:
Yeah I saw that dev blog too.
However:
CCP are a business who want to make $$$$ .
If the remove the boosts which are balanced once everyone has them - they will lose paying accounts.
.

OGBs will disappear soon i think.
Because CCP will force you to take effort to get another kind of superiority. This mean that new kind of supperiority will be introduced. May be something like "target assisting ship" capable to reduce resists of another ship even if "TAS" cloaked.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Do you see gold plated ammo? Do you see SP for Plex? .

Gold ammo - OGB, gold ammo - titans. SP for PLEX - character bazaar. SP for PLEX - dual training.
Dond forget - any classican kinds of golden ammo are available for game money, not only for gold (this will make the shoolboys think that they will be able to buy it without gold)
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#26 - 2013-08-01 05:40:04 UTC  |  Edited by: IbanezLaney
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Quote:

Station games will be the only way people fight if ogb's go. CCP surely know this and don't want to break the great pvp they started when they fixed things like FW which in turn fixed low sec.

I would hope CCP have done the maths and know it's not a financially responsible move. It will even effect the economy of eve as T3 ship, subsystem and command module demand will plummet considerably.

How long ago were we promised walking in stations or many other non existent changes to eve?

Not saying CCP will never do this - just saying it is a poor business decision as an answer to peoples issues with boosts.


There are much better solutions to this like forcing people out of NPC corps after a certain time etc and convincing them not to treat eve as a single player game.



^^^ This little rant above... is essentially you screaming the sky is falling, either because of ignorance, or because your grasping at straws.

Station Games: I've been playing this game since before T3 Ships existed, and I can tell you there is a risk adverse crowd that has always played station games, and always will. However, thanks to the crimewatch 2.0 changes, logistics inheriting aggression, the inability to eject from a ship when you have a weapons timer... Station games have dwindled drastically. Removing off grid boosts will do NOTHING to change their prevalence.

The Economy: When CCP teiricided frigates, cruisers, battlecruisers, and battleships, they dramatically altered the mineral requirements for most ships. That had a MUCH larger effect on the economy than your precious t3 subsystem market ever will. They altered the rock composition of nullsec minerals, they took away drone poo, they removed t1 items from the loot table, they buffed mining barges, they revamped ice belts, they introduced infinitely respawning grav sites, etc, etc, etc... The economic effects of nerfing off grid boosters would be akin to the ripple caused by a single drop of water falling on a pond... during a monsoon.

Again, your fear of OGB'ers going away is legit, because they will. I'll bet you 100m isk, by this date next year, OGB's will have been significantly altered to be much less effective than they are today. They are broken, you know it, I know it, CCP knows it, the CSM knows it, and while they might not have a technical solution ready to release today, winter is coming!



You have picked my motivation wrong.
When ogb's are gone - very few will use them - meaning I won't bother using them
I will be saving on 2 subs.

It is win win for me.

Why would i fear saving money?




Perspective dude. Less subs = less money into improving eve.
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Vengeance
Team Amarrica
#27 - 2013-08-01 06:20:07 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:


You have picked my motivation wrong.
When ogb's are gone - very few will use them - meaning I won't bother using them
I will be saving on 2 subs.

It is win win for me.

Why would i fear saving money?




Perspective dude. Less subs = less money into improving eve.


This is a strawman argument that can be flipped right back around. For every person that actually complains on the forums about OGB CCP could be seeing 10 others that silently go inactive or quit.

I like low sec combat (historically) because I can log on, find a fight in a few minutes, and log off whenever I have to. For an older, more discerning gentleman such as myself with wife and children LolLolLol, that is invaluable. I don't have to stay in a null sec fleet for 4 - 7 hours. I don't have to worry about being 20 jumps behind enemy lines and someone needs help with homework. Etc., Etc..

If I am limited to systems A, B, and C where my alliance has set up boosters can you see where that might cut into the above play style? There are many, many reasons why OGB are bad. Others in this thread have posted good numbers arguments so I won't.

What can't be counted is the people that try their hand at FW, get frustrated and quit. Or others who just can't be bothered to metagame FW. Hey - that's life. I'm not going to get crazy. But eventually I'll just log on, set training skills, and log off. There's probably quite a few FW warriors doing the same. For a while at least. By the way - I run with two accounts too. P
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#28 - 2013-08-01 06:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
IbanezLaney wrote:


You have picked my motivation wrong.
When ogb's are gone - very few will use them - meaning I won't bother using them
I will be saving on 2 subs.

It is win win for me.

Why would i fear saving money?


Perspective dude. Less subs = less money into improving eve.


Perspective: You use 2 accounts to give you and yours an overwhelming advantage in PvP. How many 2-month old PvP'ers are lost subscriptions because they feel incapable of competing? How many of them think it's the skillpoint gap responsible for the disparity in combat performance? How many think you bling out your ships to achieve the overwhelming combat superiority? I'll gladly sacrifice your 2 subs so the next 10 newbs have a better chance to compete against you. I'll gladly sacrifice your 2 accounts, so you have to risk adding bling to your ship/pod if you want that big combat advantage.

Here's a bit of perspective from when I started: My first ventures into PvP involved killing High SP characters zipping around in T2 fit interceptors using cheap, low meta fit tristans, merlins, and rifters. The ability to overcome the SP gap by employing unconventional tactics and fits is what kept me playing, and is truly what makes EvE great. Unfortunately, a fleet boosts gives such overwhelming advantages, that such tactics simply fail unless you, too, have fleet boosts.

Try winning these fights when your opponent has fleet boosters and you do not. You generally wont! Try winning these fights like I did, without any bling, without fleet boosts, without pricey implants, without drugs:

Merlin vs Rifter
Merlin vs Claw
Merlin vs Crow
Merlin vs Raptor
Merlin vs Crusader (loss mail to show my fit)
Merlin vs Taranis (loss mail to show my fit)
Merlin vs Taranis

Taranis vs Rupture
Taranis vs Hurricane
Taranis vs Rapier

Helios vs Jaguar
Helios vs Harpy
Helios vs Thrasher
Helios vs Sabre

Combat in EvE should be about using tactics to defeat your opponent, having friends, employing tricks and traps, and most importantly, risking everything that gives you and advantage to win!

Frankly, fleet boosters are too potent, for too little investment, and way too little risk!
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#29 - 2013-08-01 07:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Phaade wrote:
People argue that SP is the largest roadblock to successfully PvP. I disagree. Money is.

The majority of fights (particularly in FW space) are dictated by those with a faction point. Scramming out to 14km and pointing out to 36km is ludicrous. They completely change the dynamics of a fight, granting those with that ability a massive advantage over those without.

Scramming, for obvious reasons will get your kiting ship caught much more easily than 10.8km, making it considerably easier to effectively use a brawling ship. Long points to 36 damn KM make them able to kite outside reasonable firing ranges while removing your ability to escape. You slingshot them to 29km, spamming warp, and nothing. Then you overheat your MWD to slingshot them to 36KM, and still nothing. These are the most PvP breaking mods, well aside from ECM, but that's another debate.



Its not usually a faction point - it is Loki Boosts.

A friend in an ECM ship is the way to counter them.
ECM is not broken while ever target damping is around.

The mistake you are making is flying alone. Fly with friends.



I bolded the part that needs emphasis.... Straight up, it is off grid boosts that are the roadblock.

Tengu Links can give a ship 125% more shield rep, well over 50% more shield tank. A full set of cyrstals AND a Strong blue pill doesn't even provide those boosts...
Legion Links give the same bonuses as the Tengu, except to armor.
Loki Links give 52% more web, scram, and point range (which is why you think they are using faction modules), as well as 35% more speed and a 35% smaller sig radius (which is often equivalent to a 20-30% damage reduction).
Proteus Links give 35% stronger EWAR, projected 35% farther, and a stronger resistance to jams.

A proper fleet can have thee of the above, but generally people take one ship, and put 3 full strength and 2 1/3rd strength boosts on the same ship.

Essentially, the strength of OGBers is Broken, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a complete moron.



Yes. A seperate full skilled leadership toon. That is hard countered by a seperate full skilled probing toon.

I am all for removal of boosting from inside posses. More expensive targets = better.

Scumbags like me who boost t1 frigates will think twice if we have to risk a tech 3 booster.


There are still work arounds. I could put my off grid booster inside a gated plex, powering out to 500 km's from the warp in. Probe all you like, you'll land on the gate, far far from the booster.

Then there are the Undock & boost, redock crowd. And there are the sit on a gate boosters. Both of which can be alpha'd with enough tornado's, but are still pretty much invulnerable to most small roaming gangs.

I support most steps to make boosters more vulnerable. At the same time, that isn't enough! Fleet boosters are simply too potent for their "investment" and risks.


Boosters with the capability of burning off grid on a plex gate are not optimal. There is also the consideration of the 5 minutes it takes for a completely defenceless ship to get off grid on a plex gate in the first place.

That method of invulnerability is not desirable to me.

Also, in a volatile system, plexes are being closed all the time so being in dead space is not a puerperal safety net.

EDIT : Also, quoting another dual ASB hawk pilot that thinks they know how to pvp.
Taoist Dragon
The Flying Dead.
#30 - 2013-08-01 07:09:24 UTC
Oooooo a heated argument on OGB's

Ima chargin mah lazors!!!


First off: I fly with Laney and his boosts when doing FW 'stuffs' like trying to cap plexes in Nenn etc or defending home systems. They give you a great tactical advantage (I'll go into the lvl of advantage and my opinion in a min) however we also often go out on roams in frigs/dessy/cruisers. These are often NOT OGB'd but the boost alts swapped for ecm (griffins, BB etc) OGB favour the turtle style of player.

Second: When Laney pipes up and say the boosts are up I WILL use them. This is quite simple part of the meta and I'd be daft not to utilise the available tools.

Ok not we got that crap out of the way so people can happily call me a hipocrite for using them in light of my personal opinions on them.

IMO OGB in concept are fine. There is no reason to think in a far future universe that has FTL and stuff that we would require a ship to be within a few hundred kms to assist their fleet. What I don't agree with is the power of the boosts or that they can be operated behind POS shields.
How I think they should change is reduce the bonus to a couple of % max and stop them working behind POS shields and give the boost modules a similar sig radius penalty as the mwd making them much easier to scan down. Afterall they are broadcasting hugh wideband transmissions all over the system they should light up like a christmas tree. The sig penatly should not be applied on grid as the tranmission is a focussed been to fleet mates in the vicinity.

I also go out and solo roam a lot (and generally get owned by boosting l33t pvp'er Shocked ) where I make the active decision on weather to engage a suspected boosted pilot. I see both side of the argument and quite frankly YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!! Twisted Everyone is wanting this to be an all or nothing affair but the balance can be reach where there are advantages/disadvantages to bring them on/off grid.

My 2 isk worth. o7

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#31 - 2013-08-01 07:13:53 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:


You have picked my motivation wrong.
When ogb's are gone - very few will use them - meaning I won't bother using them
I will be saving on 2 subs.

It is win win for me.

Why would i fear saving money?




Perspective dude. Less subs = less money into improving eve.


This is a strawman argument that can be flipped right back around. For every person that actually complains on the forums about OGB CCP could be seeing 10 others that silently go inactive or quit.

I like low sec combat (historically) because I can log on, find a fight in a few minutes, and log off whenever I have to. For an older, more discerning gentleman such as myself with wife and children LolLolLol, that is invaluable. I don't have to stay in a null sec fleet for 4 - 7 hours. I don't have to worry about being 20 jumps behind enemy lines and someone needs help with homework. Etc., Etc..

If I am limited to systems A, B, and C where my alliance has set up boosters can you see where that might cut into the above play style? There are many, many reasons why OGB are bad. Others in this thread have posted good numbers arguments so I won't.

What can't be counted is the people that try their hand at FW, get frustrated and quit. Or others who just can't be bothered to metagame FW. Hey - that's life. I'm not going to get crazy. But eventually I'll just log on, set training skills, and log off. There's probably quite a few FW warriors doing the same. For a while at least. By the way - I run with two accounts too. P



Some good points.

But in 4 years of playing no one I have played with who has left eve has said - 'I am quitting eve cause of boosts.'
But many have said - ' I am starting a new account to boost'



About time the W&T section of the forums kicked off again.
I am glad there is a good thread that we can all discuss and argue over.




IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#32 - 2013-08-01 07:17:05 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
Oooooo a heated argument on OGB's

Ima chargin mah lazors!!!


First off: I fly with Laney and his boosts when doing FW 'stuffs' like trying to cap plexes in Nenn etc or defending home systems. They give you a great tactical advantage (I'll go into the lvl of advantage and my opinion in a min) however we also often go out on roams in frigs/dessy/cruisers. These are often NOT OGB'd but the boost alts swapped for ecm (griffins, BB etc) OGB favour the turtle style of player.

Second: When Laney pipes up and say the boosts are up I WILL use them. This is quite simple part of the meta and I'd be daft not to utilise the available tools.

Ok not we got that crap out of the way so people can happily call me a hipocrite for using them in light of my personal opinions on them.

IMO OGB in concept are fine. There is no reason to think in a far future universe that has FTL and stuff that we would require a ship to be within a few hundred kms to assist their fleet. What I don't agree with is the power of the boosts or that they can be operated behind POS shields.
How I think they should change is reduce the bonus to a couple of % max and stop them working behind POS shields and give the boost modules a similar sig radius penalty as the mwd making them much easier to scan down. Afterall they are broadcasting hugh wideband transmissions all over the system they should light up like a christmas tree. The sig penatly should not be applied on grid as the tranmission is a focussed been to fleet mates in the vicinity.

I also go out and solo roam a lot (and generally get owned by boosting l33t pvp'er Shocked ) where I make the active decision on weather to engage a suspected boosted pilot. I see both side of the argument and quite frankly YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!! Twisted Everyone is wanting this to be an all or nothing affair but the balance can be reach where there are advantages/disadvantages to bring them on/off grid.

My 2 isk worth. o7



We argue all or nothing because then a balance can be found/seen inbetween.

Boosts are up bro. Big smile
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#33 - 2013-08-01 07:34:15 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


EDIT : Also, quoting another dual ASB hawk pilot that thinks they know how to pvp.


I'm not a dual-ASB hawk type of pilot... much more of a scram + web + track type of guy.

Quoting a suicidal durka Thanny pilot?
Taoist Dragon
The Flying Dead.
#34 - 2013-08-01 07:38:37 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:


Boosts are up bro. Big smile


\o/ my forum warrioring is now 150% better!!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Awesome Alliance
#35 - 2013-08-01 07:43:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Try winning these fights when your opponent has fleet boosters and you do not. You generally wont! Try winning these fights like I did, without any bling, without fleet boosts, without pricey implants, without drugs:

........Epeen links here..........

Combat in EvE should be about using tactics to defeat your opponent, having friends, employing tricks and traps, and most importantly, risking everything that gives you and advantage to win!

Frankly, fleet boosters are too potent, for too little investment, and way too little risk!




I too could link some nice kills where I was unboosted with an empty clone where we killed ships fit with bling whom were boosted and likely had clones full of bling.

But I don't think turning this into an Epeen measuring exercise is going to forward the discussion in an intelligent way.


And yes - It's about friends.
That is one of the main points I made.





Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
#36 - 2013-08-01 08:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
If you think the loss of you, your corp mates, and a thousand other booster alts are going to stop CCP from balancing overpowered off grid boosters, your in for a surprise!!!


A year of inaction speaks louder than your speculation.

Also, you really think there are only 1000 booster alt accounts that would instantly unsub if they eliminate off-grid boosting (or nerf it to the point that they're not worth it)? I believe you are severely underestimating the cost of that move. The other balancing changes you mention were either not severe enough or not widespread enough to have the fiscal impact that forcing off-grid boosters onto grid would have. The most you'll see is a reduction from 5% boosts back to 2%.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#37 - 2013-08-01 08:34:03 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Try winning these fights when your opponent has fleet boosters and you do not. You generally wont! Try winning these fights like I did, without any bling, without fleet boosts, without pricey implants, without drugs:

........Epeen links here..........

Combat in EvE should be about using tactics to defeat your opponent, having friends, employing tricks and traps, and most importantly, risking everything that gives you and advantage to win!

Frankly, fleet boosters are too potent, for too little investment, and way too little risk!




I too could link some nice kills where I was unboosted with an empty clone where we killed ships fit with bling whom were boosted and likely had clones full of bling.

But I don't think turning this into an Epeen measuring exercise is going to forward the discussion in an intelligent way.


And yes - It's about friends.
That is one of the main points I made.



While I was stroking my own epeen, the point is not about super blingy ship kills. The point is about game balance. Those kills were possible because tactics can allow a young player to win against an opponent in a "superior" ship and with superior weapons. Unfortunately, fleet boosts tilt the balance of power to the point were a new player generally can't compete.

I enjoyed many aspects of faction warfare, but anytime a new player wants to go "try PvP" by joining FW, I cringe on the inside because they step into a world were OGB'ing is ubiquitously used, yet generally not available until they join the right corp, or get invited into the right fleet. In general, OGB'ing doesn't improve the game, it simply unbalances it to the point where both sides need OGB'ing in order to have a modicum of level play.

The three most commonly used boosters are Rapid Deployment, Interdiction Manuevers, and shield harmonizing (or passive defense for armor fleets). From a mindlinked boosting loki, those three warfare links provide your ship with:
18.75% more Armor/Shield resists. That's equivalent to adding an adaptive nano plating II to every ship in fleet (or the shield equivalent).
35.16% more Speed. That's equivalent to adding 3x Overdrive II's to your ship.
52.73% more web range and tackle range. That's equivalent to upgrading every web, scram, and point to perform essentially at the officer meta level.

You cannot possibly believe that level of modification to your ship, from some booster tucked safely away at a POS, is good for the game. I understand your desire to utilize these advantages, and I understand the need to utilize these advantages given their ubiquitous use by your opponents, but they are overpowered and broken.

The game would be 1000x better off if your OGB joined the fright in a falcon or griffin or logistics ship or any directly engage-able ship.
Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#38 - 2013-08-01 08:49:26 UTC
I hate poor people
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#39 - 2013-08-01 08:50:19 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
If you think the loss of you, your corp mates, and a thousand other booster alts are going to stop CCP from balancing overpowered off grid boosters, your in for a surprise!!!


A year of inaction speaks louder than your speculation.

Also, you really think there are only 1000 booster alt accounts that would instantly unsub if they eliminate off-grid boosting (or nerf it to the point that they're not worth it)? I believe you are severely underestimating the cost of that move. The other balancing changes you mention were either not severe enough or not widespread enough to have the fiscal impact that forcing off-grid boosters onto grid would have. The most you'll see is a reduction from 5% boosts back to 2%.


I think less than 1000 booster alt accounts will instantly unsub if they eliminate off-grid boosting. Those accounts are used for much more than simply providing a booster to a fleet. People don't simply stop training them when they max out their leadership stats, they use the account for many other purposes (scouts, capital pilots, market alts, indy alts, PI alts, cyno alts, logistic alts, etc.) Furthermore, they are talking about rebalancing command ships to be more combat effective and capable of boosting at the same time. Those precious alts will suddenly gain access to the new FOTM, so I highly doubt CCP will lose the thousands of subscriptions you imply.

As for the "year of inaction", they gave a whole years notice about the big skill changes. I believe the "long notice" is really so you can get used to the idea that they are going to change it, while simultaneously giving you plenty of time to skill that character / account up with some additional utility. This makes it even less likely you'll "instantly unsub" the account. That's smart business.

Taoist Dragon
The Flying Dead.
#40 - 2013-08-01 11:23:40 UTC
They don't need to remove ogb's just stop them being so powerful IMO....job done

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

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