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Lag, TiDi, 6-VT and you...

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#261 - 2013-07-31 17:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you want to compare context then neither one of us can be considered right or wrong.
Sure I can, largely by picking the right context and point of comparison.

Your problem is that you refuse to accept “a few minutes” as “in a timely manner” because you don't take context and relative speed into account. Meanwhile, I'm looking at it in the context of “does the processing happen within the server tick, as it's supposed to?”, because that's the context that matters (not the number of real-world seconds). TiDi ensures that this happens. Just because the server tick has been stretched to a few seconds — or even minutes — does not mean that the processing isn't done in a timely manner, because it still happens within the server tick, as it is supposed to.

This can be compared to “not in a timely manner”, which is what we had before TiDi. This was when a command could be dropped, forgotten, or just constantly shunted further down the line to the point where it may never have existed (and/or when it pops back up again, the world has long-since changed). Instead of happening within the server tick, it happens umpteeen ticks down the line… or not at all… That is when you have lag. That is also why TiDi does not create lag, but solve it: because TiDi very specifically ensures that execution does not happen in a different server tick and out of order with when in the world simulation the order was sent.

Quote:
The player still suffers from lag under TiDi, or are you disagreeing with that?
The player suffers from lag when there's lag. That's a different state than being under TiDi. In fact, it's a state that TiDi very often completely removes.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#262 - 2013-07-31 17:30:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you want to compare context then neither one of us can be considered right or wrong.
Sure I can, largely by picking the right context and point of comparison.

Your problem is that you refuse to accept “a few minutes” as “in a timely manner” because you don't take context and relative speed into account. Meanwhile, I'm looking at it in the context of “does it happen within the server tick, as it's supposed to?”, because that's the context that matters (not the number of real-world seconds). TiDi ensures that this happens. Just because the server tick has been stretched to a few seconds — or even minutes — does not mean that the processing isn't done in a timely manner, because it still happens within the server tick, as it is supposed to.

This can be compared to “not in a timely manner”, which is what we had before TiDi. This was when a command could be dropped, forgotten, or just constantly shunted further down the line to the point where it may never have existed (and/or when it pops back up again, the world has long-since changed). Instead of happening within the server tick, it happens umpteeen ticks down the line… or not at all… That is when you have lag. That is also why TiDi does not create lag, but solve it: because TiDi very specifically ensures that execution does not happen in a different server tick and out of order with when in the world simulation the order was sent.

Quote:
The player still suffers from lag under TiDi, or are you disagreeing with that?
The player suffers from lag when there's lag. That's a different state than being under TiDi. In fact, it's a state that TiDi very often completely removes.



If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.

20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.

Maybe you need (Or I need?) to revisit what "timely" means, because once something starts exceeding 1000% value of time, I do not see it as timely. Maybe you do, but I am glad to not be in the age of dialup modems any longer.

And when you have a code input time breaks into a command, I see that as "creating lag" because the amount of time is in fact altered. Lag, delay, slowdown, are all synonymous. Substitute any of those words and see if the argument changes.

Tidi creates lag (people do not agree).

Tidi creates slowdowned actions (people by definition do not agree).

Tidi creates delayed commands (people by definition do not agree).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#263 - 2013-07-31 17:32:03 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

Poor analogy maybe, but TiDi still causes your actions to be lagged.


For the last and final time:

NO

IT

DOESN'T

The overloading of the server is what causes the slowing down of your game; TiDi is a way of managing that overload so as to minimise the effect on your gameplay and to make sure that everything happens in the order it is supposed to.

The better analogy I posted is that TiDi is like traffic lights on a busy junction that too many vhicles want to go through. You are getting angry at the red light that's "stopping" you from getting home. But if it wasn't for the lights, then everyone would take even longer to get home because the problem isn't the traffic lights, it's that 4079 people want to go through the same junction all at once.



"Less" is not an absense of. TiDi intentionally slows down time. Lag is time. TiDi creates a gap of time from command input to command execution!

TiDi helps STABILITY yes. I have never argued that point.

But TiDi definitely slows down your ingame actions!


How dare you question things in this game!? And how dare you say lag when its TiDi?! You'll never win with "vets" of this game. When the game finally can handle 4000+ ships in one location they'll come back to this and be like see told you working as intended.. Till then guess we get the "slowdowns"


common sense. You should try some.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#264 - 2013-07-31 17:34:46 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you want to compare context then neither one of us can be considered right or wrong.
Sure I can, largely by picking the right context and point of comparison.

Your problem is that you refuse to accept “a few minutes” as “in a timely manner” because you don't take context and relative speed into account. Meanwhile, I'm looking at it in the context of “does it happen within the server tick, as it's supposed to?”, because that's the context that matters (not the number of real-world seconds). TiDi ensures that this happens. Just because the server tick has been stretched to a few seconds — or even minutes — does not mean that the processing isn't done in a timely manner, because it still happens within the server tick, as it is supposed to.

This can be compared to “not in a timely manner”, which is what we had before TiDi. This was when a command could be dropped, forgotten, or just constantly shunted further down the line to the point where it may never have existed (and/or when it pops back up again, the world has long-since changed). Instead of happening within the server tick, it happens umpteeen ticks down the line… or not at all… That is when you have lag. That is also why TiDi does not create lag, but solve it: because TiDi very specifically ensures that execution does not happen in a different server tick and out of order with when in the world simulation the order was sent.

Quote:
The player still suffers from lag under TiDi, or are you disagreeing with that?
The player suffers from lag when there's lag. That's a different state than being under TiDi. In fact, it's a state that TiDi very often completely removes.



If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.

20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.

Maybe you need (Or I need?) to revisit what "timely" means, because once something starts exceeding 1000% value of time, I do not see it as timely. Maybe you do, but I am glad to not be in the age of dialup modems any longer.

And when you have a code input time breaks into a command, I see that as "creating lag" because the amount of time is in fact altered.


The action does not take 1 second to complete, it takes 1 tick. It's fun when the ticks are 1 second long but sometime, the game slows down to 5 minutes per ticks. Sometime it's 20 mins per ticks. Activating your guns still takes only 1 tick in game.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#265 - 2013-07-31 17:34:57 UTC
Maximillian German wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

Poor analogy maybe, but TiDi still causes your actions to be lagged.


For the last and final time:

NO

IT

DOESN'T

The overloading of the server is what causes the slowing down of your game; TiDi is a way of managing that overload so as to minimise the effect on your gameplay and to make sure that everything happens in the order it is supposed to.

The better analogy I posted is that TiDi is like traffic lights on a busy junction that too many vhicles want to go through. You are getting angry at the red light that's "stopping" you from getting home. But if it wasn't for the lights, then everyone would take even longer to get home because the problem isn't the traffic lights, it's that 4079 people want to go through the same junction all at once.



"Less" is not an absense of. TiDi intentionally slows down time. Lag is time. TiDi creates a gap of time from command input to command execution!

TiDi helps STABILITY yes. I have never argued that point.

But TiDi definitely slows down your ingame actions!


How dare you question things in this game!? And how dare you say lag when its TiDi?! You'll never win with "vets" of this game. When the game finally can handle 4000+ ships in one location they'll come back to this and be like see told you working as intended.. Till then guess we get the "slowdowns"


common sense. You should try some.


Ouch please don't hurt me with your common sense.. /sarcasm
Seriously go play Hello Kitty they need some more idiots there. See how fun it is to just belittle someone with something stupid..
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#266 - 2013-07-31 17:35:20 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.
If it takes you one server tick to perform a one-server-tick action, that's a timely manner. The length of the server tick doesn't particularly matter.

Quote:
20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.
It is if 20min, 5min or 3min are the lengths of the respective server ticks.
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#267 - 2013-07-31 17:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximillian German
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you want to compare context then neither one of us can be considered right or wrong.
Sure I can, largely by picking the right context and point of comparison.

Your problem is that you refuse to accept “a few minutes” as “in a timely manner” because you don't take context and relative speed into account. Meanwhile, I'm looking at it in the context of “does it happen within the server tick, as it's supposed to?”, because that's the context that matters (not the number of real-world seconds). TiDi ensures that this happens. Just because the server tick has been stretched to a few seconds — or even minutes — does not mean that the processing isn't done in a timely manner, because it still happens within the server tick, as it is supposed to.

This can be compared to “not in a timely manner”, which is what we had before TiDi. This was when a command could be dropped, forgotten, or just constantly shunted further down the line to the point where it may never have existed (and/or when it pops back up again, the world has long-since changed). Instead of happening within the server tick, it happens umpteeen ticks down the line… or not at all… That is when you have lag. That is also why TiDi does not create lag, but solve it: because TiDi very specifically ensures that execution does not happen in a different server tick and out of order with when in the world simulation the order was sent.

Quote:
The player still suffers from lag under TiDi, or are you disagreeing with that?
The player suffers from lag when there's lag. That's a different state than being under TiDi. In fact, it's a state that TiDi very often completely removes.



If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.

20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.

Maybe you need (Or I need?) to revisit what "timely" means, because once something starts exceeding 1000% value of time, I do not see it as timely. Maybe you do, but I am glad to not be in the age of dialup modems any longer.


I would argue that when I have been under TiDI, modules activated and initiated their effects instantly although the cycles became longer. Such is the purpose of TiDi. If your modules weren't reacting, then it was lag rather than TiDi affecting you. Unfortunately TiDi cannot cover all lag since it can only drop to 10% of normal time at most.

From the TiDI devblog:

Expectations management time!

Time dilation does not solve everything. Some load is not tied to a time duration, so we won't be able to handle indefinitely-sized fights. We're at the point today where I think this will cover all of what we see on a regular basis with grace. I do think, however, we'll have to put in a hard limit on how far we're willing to dilate; there's no sense having a system running at .1% time, since no one will be able to do much of anything and it'll just never go anywhere. I don't know where that threshold will be - it'll be something we have to play with after deployment most likely. If fights are regularly going past whatever that threshold is though, we're back to where we are today with the server becoming unresponsive and nasty and stuff. We shall see.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#268 - 2013-07-31 17:36:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you want to compare context then neither one of us can be considered right or wrong.
Sure I can, largely by picking the right context and point of comparison.

Your problem is that you refuse to accept “a few minutes” as “in a timely manner” because you don't take context and relative speed into account. Meanwhile, I'm looking at it in the context of “does it happen within the server tick, as it's supposed to?”, because that's the context that matters (not the number of real-world seconds). TiDi ensures that this happens. Just because the server tick has been stretched to a few seconds — or even minutes — does not mean that the processing isn't done in a timely manner, because it still happens within the server tick, as it is supposed to.

This can be compared to “not in a timely manner”, which is what we had before TiDi. This was when a command could be dropped, forgotten, or just constantly shunted further down the line to the point where it may never have existed (and/or when it pops back up again, the world has long-since changed). Instead of happening within the server tick, it happens umpteeen ticks down the line… or not at all… That is when you have lag. That is also why TiDi does not create lag, but solve it: because TiDi very specifically ensures that execution does not happen in a different server tick and out of order with when in the world simulation the order was sent.

Quote:
The player still suffers from lag under TiDi, or are you disagreeing with that?
The player suffers from lag when there's lag. That's a different state than being under TiDi. In fact, it's a state that TiDi very often completely removes.



If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.

20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.

Maybe you need (Or I need?) to revisit what "timely" means, because once something starts exceeding 1000% value of time, I do not see it as timely. Maybe you do, but I am glad to not be in the age of dialup modems any longer.

And when you have a code input time breaks into a command, I see that as "creating lag" because the amount of time is in fact altered.


The action does not take 1 second to complete, it takes 1 tick. It's fun when the ticks are 1 second long but sometime, the game slows down to 5 minutes per ticks. Sometime it's 20 mins per ticks. Activating your guns still takes only 1 tick in game.



That "tick" is the lag we are talking about here.

Oh I'm sorry, DELAY.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#269 - 2013-07-31 17:38:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.
If it takes you one server tick to perform a one-server-tick action, that's a timely manner. The length of the server tick doesn't particularly matter.

Quote:
20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.
It is if 20min, 5min or 3min are the lengths of the respective server ticks.



Wait what? So just because its only 1 click of the mouse the time doesn't matter?! And thats "timely manner"?
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#270 - 2013-07-31 17:44:30 UTC
Yea.. I remember playing in the dialup days and playing everquest.. if running right you'd cast spell at 1 sec after click if it was "lagging" errr slowing down it'd take a few secs but would still work. What people don't understand is that TiDi might "slow down" the game but that is just them artificially lagging the system to make sure all clicks get put in.. Twist it anyway you want but its still "lag" in the sense that it takes longer to do something that normally took 1 sec..
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#271 - 2013-07-31 17:44:50 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


That "tick" is the lag we are talking about here.

Oh I'm sorry, DELAY.


No the ticks getting longer is the results of the game going from normal speed to slow or super slow like most simulation games allow. It's usually to let people skip over long time frame where there is nothing to do (like in flight sim when plying long routes) but it can also be slowed down to below real time rate in case there is stuff to do wich require lots of thinking and you don't want the player to face the consequence or real time decision requirement.

In EVE, it's a bit different because the speed control is in the hand of the node itself insetad of us. When the server decide it seend more real life to handle the simulation, it's slows down the game to a rate at wich it can handle all it has to do without dropping any task.

If TiDI was removed, you would get lag and other bad stuff. Your action would be stuck in memory and then either dropped because they are seen as no longer relevant or executed when it happen at some random point in time. Those delays would indeed be lag because it would be out fo control.

With TiDi, the game turns down the speed of the gaem so player 1,2 and 3 activating thier guns at the same time get the results of thier guns activating at the same time IN GAME where it matters. It cost you more IRL time but in game, everybody used the exact same time to get thier gun to shoot, 1 single tick.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#272 - 2013-07-31 17:46:37 UTC
Maximillian German wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you want to compare context then neither one of us can be considered right or wrong.
Sure I can, largely by picking the right context and point of comparison.

Your problem is that you refuse to accept “a few minutes” as “in a timely manner” because you don't take context and relative speed into account. Meanwhile, I'm looking at it in the context of “does it happen within the server tick, as it's supposed to?”, because that's the context that matters (not the number of real-world seconds). TiDi ensures that this happens. Just because the server tick has been stretched to a few seconds — or even minutes — does not mean that the processing isn't done in a timely manner, because it still happens within the server tick, as it is supposed to.

This can be compared to “not in a timely manner”, which is what we had before TiDi. This was when a command could be dropped, forgotten, or just constantly shunted further down the line to the point where it may never have existed (and/or when it pops back up again, the world has long-since changed). Instead of happening within the server tick, it happens umpteeen ticks down the line… or not at all… That is when you have lag. That is also why TiDi does not create lag, but solve it: because TiDi very specifically ensures that execution does not happen in a different server tick and out of order with when in the world simulation the order was sent.

Quote:
The player still suffers from lag under TiDi, or are you disagreeing with that?
The player suffers from lag when there's lag. That's a different state than being under TiDi. In fact, it's a state that TiDi very often completely removes.



If it took me 10 seconds to perform a 1second action, that would be a timely manner.

20minutes is not. 5 minutes is not. 3 minutes is not.

Maybe you need (Or I need?) to revisit what "timely" means, because once something starts exceeding 1000% value of time, I do not see it as timely. Maybe you do, but I am glad to not be in the age of dialup modems any longer.


I would argue that when I have been under TiDI, modules activated and initiated their effects instantly although the cycles became longer. Such is the purpose of TiDi. If your modules weren't reacting, then it was lag rather than TiDi affecting you. Unfortunately TiDi cannot cover all lag since it can only drop to 10% of normal time at most.



My argument is that TiDi does not solve lag and Tippia claims it is a solution.

I think it only solves instability due to server overload. The lag is still there, just managed. The overload is managed by "delaying" the players actions and stretching time even though it might take you 3 minutes to activate a hardener in a fight whereas it will still take me only 1 second to activate that same hardener on a different node.

THAT is where an unbalance comes from because I can easily compare the actions at the same time in the same game, because of that Time Dilation being the "equalizer". If I were to create a safe point 13au from a specific bookmark, and you made the same distance between bookmarks in a system suffering from time dilation, it would take you longer to travel the same distance.

You could even make each seperate trip yourself and time it.

That would give you the feeling of lag wondering why you haven't landed yet because you know it shouldn't take that long to land. Whereas we all know that time was stopped in between ticks to increase the time, we know that if you traveled the same distance as myself and we both started at the same time, the one with no time dilation would land first, and the dilation affected pilot would land after.

Now, knowing that, and if we agree on that, good, then we can get past the big bad boogieman word of "lag" because "lag" is simply a delay, which we know is injected into the code of actions on the server side, because the devs as quite specifically said thats what they do; slowdown time. Lag is an increase of a delay, it's MORE time.

I do not think time dilation has successfully fixed lag, or solved the problems of lag, only increased the "laggish" delay of actions based on the slowing down of time from time dilation which is necessary to help with the problem of DISCONNECTS.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#273 - 2013-07-31 17:46:48 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
Yea.. I remember playing in the dialup days and playing everquest.. if running right you'd cast spell at 1 sec after click if it was "lagging" errr slowing down it'd take a few secs but would still work. What people don't understand is that TiDi might "slow down" the game but that is just them artificially lagging the system to make sure all clicks get put in.. Twist it anyway you want but its still "lag" in the sense that it takes longer to do something that normally took 1 sec..


Lag results in action being execute out of order or completely dropped.

TiDi result in action being executed in order and not drop.

TiDi =/= lag
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#274 - 2013-07-31 17:49:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Yea.. I remember playing in the dialup days and playing everquest.. if running right you'd cast spell at 1 sec after click if it was "lagging" errr slowing down it'd take a few secs but would still work. What people don't understand is that TiDi might "slow down" the game but that is just them artificially lagging the system to make sure all clicks get put in.. Twist it anyway you want but its still "lag" in the sense that it takes longer to do something that normally took 1 sec..


Lag results in action being execute out of order or completely dropped.

TiDi result in action being executed in order and not drop.

TiDi =/= lag


Like I said it might do something to put things in order.. But its still causing lag.. Slow down.. delay whatever you crackheads want to call it to make TiDi then end all be all for your big fleet battles..
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2013-07-31 17:49:26 UTC
Maximillian German wrote:
The rest of your response is rambling and kinda lacks a point. Are you saying that no matter what we do, we can never improve the lag issue? Because I would like to very strongly disagree. Some clarification, if you would be so kind.

/me dusts off Yon Olde Book of Eve Facts


...now where was it... AH!

EVE fact number 15: **** doesn't lag because of lag, **** lags because you cram as much people in the **** until it lags.


this means that, if a server can handle a 1000vs1000 fight, then people will try to do a 2000vs2000 fight. You want to kill lag? start by killing mankind. that solves the lag problem.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#276 - 2013-07-31 17:50:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Yea.. I remember playing in the dialup days and playing everquest.. if running right you'd cast spell at 1 sec after click if it was "lagging" errr slowing down it'd take a few secs but would still work. What people don't understand is that TiDi might "slow down" the game but that is just them artificially lagging the system to make sure all clicks get put in.. Twist it anyway you want but its still "lag" in the sense that it takes longer to do something that normally took 1 sec..


Lag results in action being execute out of order or completely dropped.

TiDi result in action being executed in order and not drop.

TiDi =/= lag



So you are saying that lag is not a delay?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#277 - 2013-07-31 17:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
That "tick" is the lag we are talking about here.
No. That tick is the normal timeframe within which a command gets processed. As long as the command gets processed within that timeframe, you have no lag. The “lag” (which isn't actually lag) you're talking about is simply the stretching of the length of that tick. Actual lag, on the other hand, is when commands fail to be processed within that timeframe (or some simulation-dependently acceptable number of frames later).

Quote:
So you are saying that lag is not a delay?
Lag is a delay. That does not mean that delays are lag.
Specifically, lag is when command processing is a delay in when commands are being processed relative to when they should have been processed. TiDi ensures that such delays don't happen.

Tron 3K wrote:
Wait what? So just because its only 1 click of the mouse the time doesn't matter?! And thats "timely manner"?
Just because your command is not lost in space and time, but rather gets executed in the right order within the right server tick, the time does not particularly matter (as far as calling it “lag” goes), yes. And yes, commands being processed correctly in relation to the simulation, as opposed to being processed FSM-knows-when (or not at all), is “in a timely manner”.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#278 - 2013-07-31 17:55:23 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Yea.. I remember playing in the dialup days and playing everquest.. if running right you'd cast spell at 1 sec after click if it was "lagging" errr slowing down it'd take a few secs but would still work. What people don't understand is that TiDi might "slow down" the game but that is just them artificially lagging the system to make sure all clicks get put in.. Twist it anyway you want but its still "lag" in the sense that it takes longer to do something that normally took 1 sec..


Lag results in action being execute out of order or completely dropped.

TiDi result in action being executed in order and not drop.

TiDi =/= lag



So you are saying that lag is not a delay?


Lag is an out of control delay while TiDi is a controled state of slowdown to prevent the real effect of lags where action would NOT be executed in order OR completely dropped from the stack.

If I put my simulation to slow speed instead of normal speed, I am not lagging myself out.

The whole difference come from the fact that TiDi is something the game is programmed to to in order to stay stable while lag would be a result of the code not handling stuff as supposed thus starting to have erratic behavior.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#279 - 2013-07-31 18:00:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
That "tick" is the lag we are talking about here.
No. That tick is the normal timeframe within which a command gets processed. As long as the command gets processed within that timeframe, you have no lag. The “lag” (which isn't actually lag) you're talking about is simply the stretching of the length of that tick. Actual lag, on the other hand, is when commands fail to be processed within that timeframe (or some simulation-dependently acceptable number of frames later).




As long as the time for me to perform the same actions as you in regards to server processing and only tidi being a factor... that would be lag. The simple fact that I can operate and interact with your toon in the same game having different time frames is what that delay impacts.

If you have 20minutes of "delay" or rather... 20 minutes per server tick, and I have 1 second per server tick, that will always be a lag between the 2 pilots simply because we are in the same game and playing under different conditions. The definition of lag is relevant at this point.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Maximillian German
Task Force Coalition
#280 - 2013-07-31 18:01:00 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
Yea.. I remember playing in the dialup days and playing everquest.. if running right you'd cast spell at 1 sec after click if it was "lagging" errr slowing down it'd take a few secs but would still work. What people don't understand is that TiDi might "slow down" the game but that is just them artificially lagging the system to make sure all clicks get put in.. Twist it anyway you want but its still "lag" in the sense that it takes longer to do something that normally took 1 sec..


Lag results in action being execute out of order or completely dropped.

TiDi result in action being executed in order and not drop.

TiDi =/= lag



So you are saying that lag is not a delay?


Lag is an out of control delay while TiDi is a controled state of slowdown to prevent the real effect of lags where action would NOT be executed in order OR completely dropped from the stack.

If I put my simulation to slow speed instead of normal speed, I am not lagging myself out.

The whole difference come from the fact that TiDi is something the game is programmed to to in order to stay stable while lag would be a result of the code not handling stuff as supposed thus starting to have erratic behavior.


I'm going to suggest that you quit while you're ahead. We've been trying to explain it to this blockhead for 14 pages now.