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Amarr-since you kee taking our cap, how about this
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Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#21 - 2013-07-27 22:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
Aglais wrote:
The hell fights are you going to be in that will be lasting over three hours?

No, POS bashing doesn't count. Something should probably be done I think in the more reasonable timespans to make such weapons more viable, but as a note I do not think that making missiles use capacitor is going to be that thing- because Caldari do not have particularly strong capacitor capabilities, at all. Missile boats, at least.

the ones lately have been mostly skirmish fights.
back in the day, around '07 in 49-u at the bottom of querious, FIX was engaged in saving querious from -a- and several others. it was beautiful..i was there for several hours in a logi reppin and saving people.

that was back in the day of 300 ship drive bye's.

but right now, the ships are short lived as far as cap. with drones, the geddon doesnt need cap, it was just used as an example.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#22 - 2013-07-27 22:57:21 UTC
Emma Yobibit wrote:
1. amarr ships buffer fit
2. use cap boosters
3. maller has 35K eHP while the thorax has around 22K
4. the Hyperion needs more love then lazors ^^

i dont think you have proven its a statistical issue, you can always try to prove your self but i think the only problem is amarr takes more skills in capacitor direction.

hmm..skillz...yeah
look at my birth date.
dont talk to me about skillz.
ive been maxed our in anything amarr since 06 maybe.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2013-07-27 23:07:54 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
Emma Yobibit wrote:
1. amarr ships buffer fit
2. use cap boosters
3. maller has 35K eHP while the thorax has around 22K
4. the Hyperion needs more love then lazors ^^

i dont think you have proven its a statistical issue, you can always try to prove your self but i think the only problem is amarr takes more skills in capacitor direction.

hmm..skillz...yeah
look at my birth date.
dont talk to me about skillz.
ive been maxed our in anything amarr since 06 maybe.


I think he did not mean in-game trained skills, but rather piloting ability.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-07-28 00:05:20 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
in the begining, amarr chose laser weapons. then, in order to be able to carry more ammo, they perfected their capacitors which allowed them to fire more and more. at one time, the geddon "could" run a repper, burner, and fire all 7 of its lasers and be slightly over cap stable.
then came the cap nerf. by removing the amarian bonus to cap, you gimped us. and then being that beams are so damn cap hungry, we cant really use them effectively for long at all.

we amarrians need our cap back in some form.
take a meggy and line it up with an abaddon. set equal range and damage (close). see which one runs out of cap first. now how can u say we are masters of the cap with results like this.
now, you say use cap boosters. boosters are huge compared to ammo. fill a cargo hold full of ammo on the thron and cap boosters on the abby and see which one can shoot the longest. again, the thron goes a long time. the abby becomes bone dry in a second or 2. then takes a while to shoot.

you guys seriously gimped the whole amarr race by doing that. not like a tracking disruptor hurt minie, but it hurt everyone...this was a direct assault on amarr.

since we are the cap masters, how about giving some bonus to the cap we receive from cap boosters? since u are forcing us to use the damn things, where can you point besides the vengy and sac that actually gets a good cap bonus?
you cant. ok, so u gave us a bone giving the apoc a quicker regen, but it isnt ANY thing like before.

give us SOMETHING back. or make missiles and projectiles use cap and make the hybrids use more...
(not the desired effect, but give us a bone).

compare dps from a tachyon abby to a 425 thron. not over the course of a couple seconds, but over 3 hours.
max recharge to empty, then back to max recharge and fire to empty.

how about instead we just wait another 2/3 rebalance cycles so all amarr ships lose yet another lowslot in favor of a mid for MOAR CAP BOOSTERS, all lose their laser bonuses for missile/drone bonuses, and become shield tanked.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#25 - 2013-07-28 06:14:45 UTC
look at these noobs needing cap to do stuff.

cap is for noobs Cool
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#26 - 2013-07-28 06:54:45 UTC
Real Amarrians suck cap from another Ship. ... or do have a cap logi Slave....

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-07-28 23:05:29 UTC
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
look at these noobs needing cap to do stuff.

cap is for noobs Cool

says the minmatar, the race too primitive to use cap with their weapons. its called paint guys, keeps off the rust.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-07-28 23:35:31 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
learn to burst tank.

I used to burst tank once, then I took a missile to the hull.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#29 - 2013-07-29 02:17:24 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Liafcipe9000 wrote:
look at these noobs needing cap to do stuff.

cap is for noobs Cool

says the minmatar, the race too primitive to use cap with their weapons. its called paint guys, keeps off the rust.

actually, when going against a race that is considered the energy masters, not relying on cap for weapons is brilliant.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-07-29 06:54:00 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
Aglais wrote:
The hell fights are you going to be in that will be lasting over three hours?

No, POS bashing doesn't count. Something should probably be done I think in the more reasonable timespans to make such weapons more viable, but as a note I do not think that making missiles use capacitor is going to be that thing- because Caldari do not have particularly strong capacitor capabilities, at all. Missile boats, at least.

the ones lately have been mostly skirmish fights.
back in the day, around '07 in 49-u at the bottom of querious, FIX was engaged in saving querious from -a- and several others. it was beautiful..i was there for several hours in a logi reppin and saving people.

that was back in the day of 300 ship drive bye's.

but right now, the ships are short lived as far as cap. with drones, the geddon doesnt need cap, it was just used as an example.

I've seen a video of a fight by FIX (probably the one you are referencing) like that on YouTube and that may well have taken several hours but it would be completely incorrect to say that it required you to be able to continuously fire for 3+ hours. Warping around results in your capacitor recharging over time and they showed a lot of warp ins and outs over that fight, though it was clearly edited as it doesn't show when the Scorpion recording it takes its structure damage that just suddenly appears while its armor is full again.

The laser cap use bonus keeps getting taken away from Amarrian ships because people kept posting about how useless they are, an assertion I don't agree with but am willing to live with since apparently it has been heard. The reason I am willing to go along with it because the new bonuses are stronger than the cap use bonuses (performance wise) and I was already cap injecting pretty much everything Amarr anyway. Pretty soon I'm going to need an intervention before I lose my house to my Navy 800s addiction. Amarrian ships also have a cargo hold that can be almost entirely devoted to cap charges if you feel you need to. Unlike that Mega you alluded to earlier your ammunition takes up a small portion of your cargo hold. Even with several sets of crystals and replacement sets which is pretty over the top, you are using up less than 50m at the absolute most, also the Megathron will run out of ammo at some point probably before 3 hours, if you carry as spare set of T1 crystals you never will, the Mega also has reload cycles which you do not either. So I don't feel like carrying Navy 800s is that big a deal. Also the introduction of navy charges helped tremendously with the problem of cap boosters using up too much cargo space.

Lastly the current Armageddon is a massive Curse of sorts, how do you propose to use it effectively without cap? Neuting yourself out as well as one enemy ship is nowhere near the advantage (assuming it even is one) that holding several ships on zero cap is and you will need either logi or cap injection to pull that off. This is all unless you're talking about a Navy Armageddon in which case you really need to say so as it still has a laser cap use bonus and is massively different from the normal Armageddon.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-07-29 07:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Massive paraphrase of Fozzie from twitch interview/comments that mirrors my own opinion:

It is perfectly fine that laser boats are maddeningly unstable provided they have the raw performance to justify it.
(He said he was considering that route with regards to laser balance).

Since that is not currently the case, I say boost RoF on ALL lasers and increase cap use to a point where they outdamage blasters and track like autos as long as they are firing (which will be as always be dependent on cap).

Plays right into the idea of Amarr being designed for fleet/gang work where cap can be externalised while still allowing for solo/small gang work if/when making the "normal for Amarr" plus a bit sacrifices.

Fot it to really work I'd recommend CCP revisit the concept of Gallente having more lows than Amarr (WTF!?!) and to consider increasing cap relay and battery numbers slightly.

In short: Cap instability is irrelevant as long as the hammer being wielded is so damn heavy as to be earth shaking!


This would make Amarr ships a must-have in fleet combat, a big no-no for the balance. Other than Scorch encroaching on beam territory (note: I believe Scorch is necessary in close range balance, so the problem is with beams), and Tachyons a bit less "superbeamy" than they should be (imo, Tachyons should hit like a truck, but whoever equips them should be sacrificing his entire ship layout for it, turning the ship into one massive laser gun), lasers are fine right now.
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