These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why "high sec bears" don't go to null

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#341 - 2013-08-02 13:22:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
It's kinda funny how a guy can brag about 21 kills after soliong in null sec while at the same time asking for it to be easier to solo in null sec...


Yeah, imagine that, a guy wanting to PvP a lot (and in the gutsiest form) in the pure PvP game. The outrage!


The outrageous part is a guy asking for what he wants to do to be made easier, despite the fact that doing so would go against good sense.

What good is ownership of space if people can dock and refit in it without your consent? How is that different form NPC null.

No, he wants CCP to make the game do for him what HE should be doing for himself ie he should provide his own support for deep space raiding. Asking for ccp to automate a process that should be done by people (even if those people are using alts) is a good example of the failure I call "the high sec mentality" and is anti-sandbox in nature.

I do pve raids into deep space with ships and alts i've grinded for litterally years for and grind still to plex for to keep them active, yet have you seen me come to CCP and ask for things to be made easier? No, because I'd rather actually play the game than have someone hand me "success".

You're obviously just trolling now.


That's just idiotic the way people like you always resort to saying that when you know you're wrong. It's childish in the extreme. But then again, you tend to stomp your feet like a child when people don't agree with you.

You just proved that deep space raiding is viable and possible in game right now with EVE as is, and you here you are still basically asking for a change to the game to make what you just proved was [possible even easier to do.

Don't you see how dumb that is?

I didn't ask for any changes, nor did I suggest any changes. I made an observation. That's where the trolling comes in. You have been told that multiple times but you ignore and continue trolling.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#342 - 2013-08-02 14:20:54 UTC
Yeah trolling would be eg: starting an argument by pretending to believe that everyone in 0.0 can make a sustainable 550M ISK/hr

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#343 - 2013-08-02 14:33:45 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I didn't ask for any changes, nor did I suggest any changes. I made an observation. That's where the trolling comes in. You have been told that multiple times but you ignore and continue trolling.


When I troll you, you'll know you've been trolled boy. You'll hear banjos and people telling you to squeel like pig.

But more seriously, you are lying. In this very thread you've made suggestions/asked for changes (asking to be able to dock and refit in someone else's is asking for changes). The Op itself is SUGGESTIVE. You don't just "make an observation" there, you're promoting a thinly veiled agenda.

And you know it.

You do it all the time with the afk cloaking stuff and the local stuff and that ridiculas BS about making half a bil and hour (sustained) in null sec that Malcanis called you on etc etc. You'd be a much less crappy poster if you'd stop being blatantly dishonest.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#344 - 2013-08-02 14:41:36 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Yeah trolling would be eg: starting an argument by pretending to believe that everyone in 0.0 can make a sustainable 550M ISK/hr


I would love to be able to get a mega an hour and have enough change left over to insure it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#345 - 2013-08-02 14:59:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yeah trolling would be eg: starting an argument by pretending to believe that everyone in 0.0 can make a sustainable 550M ISK/hr

I would love to be able to get a mega an hour and have enough change left over to insure it.

But really, wouldn't it be more like "get enough to replace a mega an hour after insurance on the last one that exploded" ?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#346 - 2013-08-02 15:00:38 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

But really, wouldn't it be more like "get enough to replace a mega an hour after insurance on the last one that exploded" ?


Given the age my mega tend to reach I would have enough for endless kronos and vindicatorsStraight
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2013-08-02 15:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Jenn aSide wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I didn't ask for any changes, nor did I suggest any changes. I made an observation. That's where the trolling comes in. You have been told that multiple times but you ignore and continue trolling.


When I troll you, you'll know you've been trolled boy. You'll hear banjos and people telling you to squeel like pig.

But more seriously, you are lying. In this very thread you've made suggestions/asked for changes (asking to be able to dock and refit in someone else's is asking for changes). The Op itself is SUGGESTIVE. You don't just "make an observation" there, you're promoting a thinly veiled agenda.

And you know it.

You do it all the time with the afk cloaking stuff and the local stuff and that ridiculas BS about making half a bil and hour (sustained) in null sec that Malcanis called you on etc etc. You'd be a much less crappy poster if you'd stop being blatantly dishonest.



You're twisting the truth. I made an observation, proprosed a possible reason for something in the OP. I have made suggestions based on the conversation however, I have not asked for anything. Quote me asking for CCP to change something. You can't. At most I have said "we need" or "it would be nice" or "it would be better". You are simply trying to derail the thread further. I think it has ceased to be useful.

If you like you can make a thread about how you wish deep 0.0 to remain out of bounds for most players for all time... I'll be happy to participate and argue against that.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#348 - 2013-08-02 15:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Infinity Ziona wrote:
[The issue is not local its what I raised. No ammo, fitting, repair, market. That would get people out there.


This is the issue, you cannot do it easily solo, but all credit to you for trying, to do it you need two accounts or trusted friends, people used to use Orca's parked up in very deep safes, but that was nerfed so risk is much greater as you are often in easy scan range, you cannot put up a POS as instant mail to Sov holder and bang no more POS, NPC 0.0 works but not for the real deep 0.0 where the null-bears tend to be. One method which Herzog Wolfhammer uses is WH's, does what he needs and finds another to LS/HS.

There are some other ways, create your own BLOPS chain, but you need multiple accounts for that or work as a team, another way is to use a carrier as a mobile base, and of course the fighters are a good way to get a safe out at an odd angle, those people who have docked into a station without retrieving fighters get a bonus for having to probe them down...

There are a lot of systems in deep null that are rarely visited and will make an excellent base if you are properly set up, I am busy training a toon to be the mobile base which has the same carrier as my main, after that I will have some fun!

But it seems to me that Eve have designed their game to be a sanbdbox only if you are in an alliance, if you are an independent minded player they have been nerfing the experience, like making grav sites not require probing for one which has removed independent miners from NPC 0.0. The one thing I saw that would help people like you and me, is the new POS system that someone proposed which included the ability to cloak, can be put anywhere in system, such as deadspace pockets and could even jump out, sadly CCP failed to see th possibilities of this as they are fixated on the headline battles like 6VDT which get them a lot of press.

Glad to see you having fun and the Proteus fit works for you, that is all that counts... Also I see that you have been trolled by Jenn (I say Osmon to her, lol.)

EDIT: Herzog, I just saw your picture of the bubble at Mittangard, nice one!!!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#349 - 2013-08-02 15:22:12 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


But it seems to me that Eve have designed their game to be a sanbdbox only if you are in an alliance


What makes you think a solo player should beat an alliance of thousands?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#350 - 2013-08-02 15:25:26 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
But it seems to me that Eve have designed their game to be a sanbdbox only if you are in an alliance

What makes you think a solo player should beat an alliance of thousands?

We will bury you... in sand.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#351 - 2013-08-02 15:29:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


But it seems to me that Eve have designed their game to be a sanbdbox only if you are in an alliance


What makes you think a solo player should beat an alliance of thousands?


Did I say that? But anyway the OP is after the weaker members of your thousands and being successful and all credit to him/her.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#352 - 2013-08-02 15:32:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


But it seems to me that Eve have designed their game to be a sanbdbox only if you are in an alliance


What makes you think a solo player should beat an alliance of thousands?




Show me in his post where he said that.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#353 - 2013-08-02 15:35:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:




You're twisting the truth. I made an observation, proprosed a possible reason for something in the OP. I have made suggestions based on the conversation however, I have not asked for anything. Quote me asking for CCP to change something. You can't. At most I have said "we need" or "it would be nice" or "it would be better". You are simply trying to derail the thread further. I think it has ceased to be useful. [/quote]

That's just politician speak.

If you'd said "it would be better" of it would be nice" someplace else, that would not be a plea to CCP. But you're doing on CCP'S FORUM lol.

It would be like me saying "it would be nice, but I'm not asking for a new law"...while standing in the middle of the United States Congress.....

I'm not derailing anyhting, i'm speaking exactly to your OP. You are wrong. People don't go to null not because it's impossible or because of unfriendly game echanics, they don't go to null because they either can't stand loss, don't like pvp, or don't want to put in effort.

The only way to get people who can't play the game without automatic in-game protections (CONCORD) to go to null is to make null so safe it might as well be high sec. Then what's the point of null?

What they point of telling people "you can own space" when people can dock and use logistical facilities without your permissions?

And why must all space be the same? Eve provides space more compatible for solo activities (high sec for solo pve and pvp, low sec and low end wormholes AND npc null for solo/small gang play). The only content that pretty much requires grouping is sov null, incursions and high end wormholes. Yet you suggest (and you did suggest) breaking that.

Do you understand why CCP never implemented the "Small Holdings" in null they talked about up till a couple years ago? It's because they realized that it would defeat the purpose of holding SOV. You'd know that if you paid attention to whats going on with the game.

Quote:

If you like you can make a thread about how you wish deep 0.0 to remain out of bounds for most players for all time... I'll be happy to participate and argue against that.


It's not out of bounds, YOU JUST PROVED THAT. The fact that people don't want to put in the effort or accept the risks you just proved were possible is not the same thing as "out of bounds. You, I and everyone else who wants to put in the effort to go into unfriendly null regions already do that, exactly why is it a good idea to lower the barriers of entry.

The barriers to entry in null (and defeating said barriers) is what makes the game fun for people who like a challenge. If you don't like a challenge, stay in high sec.

What you, Infinity, are saying is same as saying "more people would pvp if they couldn't lose their ships". Yea, they would and it would be stupid lol.



And no, i don't need to start a thread about null sec, You already have. If you can't accept people destroying your lame ideas, don't post lame ideas.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#354 - 2013-08-02 15:44:47 UTC
Everyone, quick train CynoV, call up BL, make posts about how people in nullsec are cowards, then .....

run to Deklein, find a ratting carrier, light cyno for BL covert hotdrop gang. Laugh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#355 - 2013-08-02 15:46:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
[The issue is not local its what I raised. No ammo, fitting, repair, market. That would get people out there.


This is the issue, you cannot do it easily solo, but all credit to you for trying, to do it you need two accounts or trusted friends, people used to use Orca's parked up in very deep safes, but that was nerfed so risk is much greater as you are often in easy scan range, you cannot put up a POS as instant mail to Sov holder and bang no more POS, NPC 0.0 works but not for the real deep 0.0 where the null-bears tend to be. One method which Herzog Wolfhammer uses is WH's, does what he needs and finds another to LS/HS.

There are some other ways, create your own BLOPS chain, but you need multiple accounts for that or work as a team, another way is to use a carrier as a mobile base, and of course the fighters are a good way to get a safe out at an odd angle, those people who have docked into a station without retrieving fighters get a bonus for having to probe them down...

There are a lot of systems in deep null that are rarely visited and will make an excellent base if you are properly set up, I am busy training a toon to be the mobile base which has the same carrier as my main, after that I will have some fun!

But it seems to me that Eve have designed their game to be a sanbdbox only if you are in an alliance, if you are an independent minded player they have been nerfing the experience, like making grav sites not require probing for one which has removed independent miners from NPC 0.0. The one thing I saw that would help people like you and me, is the new POS system that someone proposed which included the ability to cloak, can be put anywhere in system, such as deadspace pockets and could even jump out, sadly CCP failed to see th possibilities of this as they are fixated on the headline battles like 6VDT which get them a lot of press.

Glad to see you having fun and the Proteus fit works for you, that is all that counts... Also I see that you have been trolled by Jenn (I say Osmon to her, lol.)


Yes, the weak-minded do tend to band together for some reason. Here another one who presented a bad ill-thought out argument and suddenly everyone else is a "troll". Where I'm from such disrespect would be called "a lack of home training".

CCP isn't in some conspiracy to screw "independent minded" (read loners/losers) players. EVe provides A LOT of space for solo and small gang activity, but that's not enough for the greedy loner,

No, he has to have SOV space too, because npc null, low sec, wormhoesl and high sec aren't enough. Like the insidious cancer like carebear that , rather than play a PVE oriented game, comes to games like EVE and begs for better pve content and "to be left alone" (lol), the loner expects CCP to make every corner of the game accessible to them because they pay a sub,

It's ridiculas welfare-esque entitlement thinking at work.

If you want to go to someone else's' null sec space, FIGHT to get in, FIGHT to stay, be creative in how you do it. it's a game about conflict, so get your conflict on and squat in someone else's space just like Infinity proved is doable. But stop asking for free docking stations and cloakable POSes to make it easy for you.

In EVE real (Internet space) men take what they want, they don't run screaming to mommie/ccp.



Also Dracvlad, like the rest of your type, feel free to get mad/butthurt and call me a troll for simply showing you the error of your ways.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#356 - 2013-08-02 16:08:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Yes, the weak-minded do tend to band together for some reason. Here another one who presented a bad ill-thought out argument and suddenly everyone else is a "troll". Where I'm from such disrespect would be called "a lack of home training".

CCP isn't in some conspiracy to screw "independent minded" (read loners/losers) players. EVe provides A LOT of space for solo and small gang activity, but that's not enough for the greedy loner,

No, he has to have SOV space too, because npc null, low sec, wormhoesl and high sec aren't enough. Like the insidious cancer like carebear that , rather than play a PVE oriented game, comes to games like EVE and begs for better pve content and "to be left alone" (lol), the loner expects CCP to make every corner of the game accessible to them because they pay a sub,

It's ridiculas welfare-esque entitlement thinking at work.

If you want to go to someone else's' null sec space, FIGHT to get in, FIGHT to stay, be creative in how you do it. it's a game about conflict, so get your conflict on and squat in someone else's space just like Infinity proved is doable. But stop asking for free docking stations and cloakable POSes to make it easy for you.

In EVE real (Internet space) men take what they want, they don't run screaming to mommie/ccp.

Also Dracvlad, like the rest of your type, feel free to get mad/butthurt and call me a troll for simply showing you the error of your ways.


Oh that was classic, all that splerge from just mentioning Osmon! Big smile Yet again putting your own words and assumptions in others mouths, you are a very intelligent troll, nothing to do with butthurt, its from observing your mode of operation. Jenn is much butthurt!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#357 - 2013-08-02 17:26:03 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Everyone, quick train CynoV, call up BL, make posts about how people in nullsec are cowards, then .....

run to Deklein, find a ratting carrier, light cyno for BL covert hotdrop gang. Laugh.


Thats over 34 days for potentially appearing at the bottom of a cap KM if the dropping group belive you are not setting a trap.

Did anyone ever set a trap like that?

"yeah guys, drop your cap and kill the supercarrier in a bubble here."

**Dreads jump**

Equal number of enemy Titans "Oh hai!"
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#358 - 2013-08-02 17:34:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
No, the point is the people in system won't know if you are a BL NPC corp alt cloaky cynoship or just an NPC corp alt cloaking ship.

Then whenever the former does get on kills, you remind everyone in local that they could be next because you are also a BL cynoship. And if they don't seem to believe you, then let someone know there's ratting carriers around.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#359 - 2013-08-02 17:37:05 UTC
What the heck are you people arguing about anyway?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#360 - 2013-08-02 17:41:32 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
What the heck are you people arguing about anyway?


It's on EVEO GD. Does it really matter?