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Significant addition to the tournament CREST exposure

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CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2013-07-25 14:30:00 UTC
Greetings tournament folk,

Since the tournament has been going reasonably well I've been able to turn some attention towards a project that's been on wishlists for a long, long time - capturing replay data for tournament matches.

I'm happy to report some amount of success which could be measured in "awesomes" if that were a measure of things.

What this means for you:
- Matches starting this weekend will be recorded. Things that will be recorded:

  • State of the fleet-stats that we show on stream. I call them AwesomeBars 'cause I'm bad at naming things.
  • Ship positions, velocities and visible modules
  • Visual effects on the ships and who they're done at
  • Position, velocity and visual effects of drones
  • Position and velocity of missiles

- This data is on a 60 second delay. If people are making critical decisions based on 60 second old data, you've probably already killed them.
- This data is intended to remain available well after the tournament is complete. Don't mess up, everyone's watching you for a long time.

Some of this data is not exposed yet, but some is already in place for this weekend, as the tech-minded of you can see from the post linked above.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#2 - 2013-07-25 14:41:44 UTC
Seems legit.
Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#3 - 2013-07-25 15:57:49 UTC
Majesty is imminent.
Sairait
CHON
THE R0NIN
#4 - 2013-07-25 16:27:58 UTC
Pretty cool ...

So, where's the app that let's me replay a tournament fight, and which would shows ship positions, speed vectors, health bars and effects in 3D GUI ? Cool

/Sairait
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#5 - 2013-07-25 16:45:33 UTC
Sairait wrote:
So, where's the app that let's me replay a tournament fight, and which would shows ship positions, speed vectors, health bars and effects in 3D GUI ? Cool

You haven't written it yet ;)

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#6 - 2013-07-25 19:59:10 UTC
Neat!

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2013-07-25 20:41:04 UTC
I think for certain setups giving the enemy team all that info on only a 1 minute delay could be very problematic.
Garmon
Gods Holy Light Bringing You're Penance
#8 - 2013-07-25 21:08:43 UTC
m8 we kno all ure setups neway and they r not good lol
I like Duncan
luckyccs
That Hole Over There
#9 - 2013-07-25 21:33:41 UTC
Garmon wrote:
m8 we kno all ure setups neway and they r not good lol


And we know all yours. protip, brent was a spy, dont account share.
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#10 - 2013-07-25 22:33:38 UTC
Shamis Orzoz wrote:
I think for certain setups giving the enemy team all that info on only a 1 minute delay could be very problematic.

I have to agree. Giving out the *TeamFleetAttributes data in absolute numbers is a bit too much and while you can of course still see some of it by interpreting the bars on the stream, this is bordering telling them the exact fit. Going by your example here I could probably patch together the Raven fit using that data. Killmails at least make you work for that information.

The intention behind this is great, though. I would just caution what this development appears to be heading towards.
Duncan Tanner
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#11 - 2013-07-25 22:52:14 UTC
luckyccs wrote:
Garmon wrote:
m8 we kno all ure setups neway and they r not good lol


And we know all yours. protip, brent was a spy, dont account share.


we kno all ure setups 2 and dey r even worse lol

(brent is double agent gf)

.
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch
Evasive Maneuvering.
#12 - 2013-07-26 09:19:01 UTC
As a programmer myself, I have to say - Veritas, you are awesome. If any CCP management are reading, you should give him a raise - he's head and shoulders above all of the rest of your software developers taken together.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2013-07-26 10:03:00 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Giving out the *TeamFleetAttributes data in absolute numbers is a bit too much

I have some sympathy to this point. Would it suffice to round these numbers to 3 significant digits?

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Lucas Quaan
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#14 - 2013-07-26 13:24:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Quaan
CCP Veritas wrote:
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Giving out the *TeamFleetAttributes data in absolute numbers is a bit too much

I have some sympathy to this point. Would it suffice to round these numbers to 3 significant digits?

The biggest issue is having them available at all during the match. I don't know when you will start broadcasting the data, but if it is available before the match goes live I can still look at the numbers and determine if that is a ganky or a tanky setup and how many damps/TDs they are likely to have, based on my own knowledge of similar teams or comparison with my own stats, and adjust my tactics accordingly. Even worse, if this is always on, I could perhaps get a readout on what the enemy is fielding before I even decide what range to warp to the arena.

What I'm saying is that I don't think 60 s is enough delay not to be useful to the teams during the match, something I don't think is your intention anyway. If you set it to something like 5-10 min and not available at all before the match goes live it would probably be fine.

I totally appreciate this awesome new development that would hopefully lead to a fully fledged battle recorder down the line. Something that would let us witness Asakai or O2O sped up time or at all for those of us who weren't there. I just don't want it to influence the actual competition in the AT.


edit: Btw, this goes for the stream too. Insufficient delay is what leads to situations like we had last time where one team couldn't figure out that the Basi was bait and the Tengu was the real logi until half way through the match when they picked it up from the commentators. Hilarious as it was, I don't think this sort of thing benefits the competitive aspect of the tournament.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#15 - 2013-07-26 13:45:46 UTC
Right, so to clarify, this data stream does not go live until the the match timer starts, and I chose 60sec because that's slightly longer than the stream delay. If the stream delay were 5 minutes I'd have the crest data delayed slightly more than 5 minutes ;)

While there's certainly a discussion to be had regarding stream/crest delay being too low, that's not one I can particularly take part in as I have very little input into what the stream delay is set at.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Kadesh Priestess
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#16 - 2013-07-27 12:08:58 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:

  • Ship visible modules
  • Visual effects on the ships and who they're done at
  • Position, velocity and visual effects of drones
  • Position and velocity of missiles
I don't see any of these in test fight feed, are they going to be included in real fights?
Tusko Hopkins
Puritans
#17 - 2013-07-27 13:34:39 UTC
Looks nice! Under what URI will be able to access the realtime / playback data of Tranquility for the current alliance tournament?
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#18 - 2013-07-27 14:45:14 UTC
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:

  • Ship visible modules
  • Visual effects on the ships and who they're done at
  • Position, velocity and visual effects of drones
  • Position and velocity of missiles
I don't see any of these in test fight feed, are they going to be included in real fights?

Eventually. I'm capturing the data for them but I haven't written the exposure yet.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#19 - 2013-07-27 14:45:45 UTC
Tusko Hopkins wrote:
Looks nice! Under what URI will be able to access the realtime / playback data of Tranquility for the current alliance tournament?

The tournament root for AT-XI is http://public-crest.eveonline.com/tournaments/1/

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Tusko Hopkins
Puritans
#20 - 2013-07-27 20:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tusko Hopkins
CCP Veritas wrote:
Tusko Hopkins wrote:
Looks nice! Under what URI will be able to access the realtime / playback data of Tranquility for the current alliance tournament?

The tournament root for AT-XI is http://public-crest.eveonline.com/tournaments/1/


Awesome! It works perfectly. Some of the older matches are not reachable though, but I guess they just were not recorded yet.
The last one is a feature request: how many beers would it take at the next fanfest to get you to provide the telemetry for the drones as well?
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