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Are Capsuleers definitively "Immortal" outside of their ships?

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CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#121 - 2014-01-10 12:22:19 UTC
According to CCP Falcon forget about Dust implants clones or whatever for us, the capsuleers, let's remember that they are 2 different games connected, and it's natural they keep us separated.

However the idea of us playing outside the capsule is something they are working on, they are even designing the interiors of the ships and some kind of exploration made by us outside our ships.

We have one of the most amazing science fiction universes that there are, and the possibilities are almost endless.

Usually I imagine my character interacting with his crew, and since we have Dust I imagine them, not my character, with implants that make them "immortals" too.

Regardless how awesome a pod is for fly a spaceship for me nothing would be more awesome than being capable of walking inside my ships and be in the bridge.
Kira Hhallas
Very Drunken Eve Flying Instructors
Brotherhood Of Silent Space
#122 - 2014-01-14 14:00:32 UTC
In the moment, you are only mortal human without your pod. But over think your wish to walk under your crew. If your a week in pvp and you lose many ships. How popular you think you are at your Crew. So i think your, will be saver in your pod, than under your crew members. Because the game of thrones are played in every universe. :-D

Kira Hhallas - Austrian EvE Community - ingame =Österreich= - StoryPage - https://oneshotstorys.wordpress.com/ -

Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#123 - 2014-01-15 04:06:00 UTC
Kira Hhallas wrote:
In the moment, you are only mortal human without your pod. But over think your wish to walk under your crew. If your a week in pvp and you lose many ships. How popular you think you are at your Crew. So i think your, will be saver in your pod, than under your crew members. Because the game of thrones are played in every universe. :-D


Good point, that's one of the reasons my crews have implants like the Dust mercenaries.

=D
Jace Sarice
#124 - 2014-01-20 16:00:59 UTC
Gaven Lok'ri wrote:
As a note:

My understanding of the soft clone argument does not involve a slower less invasive scan as was suggested early in the thread. It involves the same deadly scan that the capsuleer undergoes.

The argument is more that the fact that the brain can obviously be converted to data means that the data from a scan can be stored.

So what this would mean is that every time you get podded (or have a clone killed in lab to make a backup) you would be creating a new set of brain data that could be stored.

So, if you get killed out of pod then the memory of the time between when you "died" last and when someone killed the character out of pod would be what was lost.

On immortality, I think the more interesting question is whether the capsuleer's mind is as immortal as their ability to survive dying. We have as a bit of a joke the idea that he people who don't RP are afflicted by a disease that makes them think they aren't real. Capsuleer dementia is more a joke than anything else, but the underlying idea that mental disease and decay would be preserved from one clone to the next seems like it is something to consider.

It seems like that, rather than physical violence, is what would threaten a capsuleer's immortality.


This, essentially, is how I have always understood the soft clone theory. It also seems viable that there would be some psychological and neurological consequences that would continue to be a pervasive issue. Since soft clones are so common in RP, it would be the only thing that would constitute consequences worth paying attention to.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-01-21 04:59:14 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:

It's very easy to say that The Broker was a one off, and that quite literally no else in the cluster would have access to the technology, funding and capability that he did. His pockets were quite literally bottomless. He also did not use the same technology as DUST mercs do, and was around way before the technology ever existed. It was several years after he died that it was discovered, concieved and reverse engineered.

It's also good to look up your prime fiction with regards to how the capsule works. The Neural burning hardware used in a capsule quite literally fries your brain during the process of capturing its state once the pod is breached, turning you into a dribbling simpleton. It's so intrusive that it bombards the brain with all kinds of nasty radiation and causes instant breakdown of cellular integrity and the destruction of tissue.

The capsule's on board systems effectively euthanize you once the scan is complete with a lethal dosage of a methylmercury based neurotoxin that quite easily crosses the blood brain barrier and causes massive damage, in order to prevent you from being exposed to vacuum and dying far more painfully and horribly.

I just finished writing the technical backstory surrounding the capsule and it's basic operating principles a few weeks back Smile

It's not possible to be both a DUST mercenary and a capsuleer, hence why you have seperate characters for each purpose. The two technologies operate completely independantly of eachother and are so fundementally different that it makes them incompatible on the most basic of levels.

DUST mercenaries are an entirely different, albeit equally dangerous type of immortal. Smile




That is, until you guys fully merge Eve, DUST, and Valkyrie and we can all sit in a virtual bar on Jita 4-4 and get virtually sloshed.

Then all of this will get retconned and filed under "H" for "toy".

So then we'll have capsuleers throwing on dropsuits and murdering each other in person after shooting torpedos into the exhaust ports of an Archon from their Valkyrie fighter/bomber/frigate.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#126 - 2014-01-23 23:32:02 UTC
Capsuleer true death can and has happened. A notable one is Gallente Admiral Alexander Noir. He was assassinated by The Broker so that he could take control of the Nyx-class supercarrier the FNS Wandering Saint and crash it into Ishukone Headquarters to frame the Federation.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#127 - 2014-01-24 01:35:06 UTC
Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-01-24 15:50:37 UTC
Jack Carrigan wrote:
Capsuleer true death can and has happened. A notable one is Gallente Admiral Alexander Noir. He was assassinated by The Broker so that he could take control of the Nyx-class supercarrier the FNS Wandering Saint and crash it into Ishukone Headquarters to frame the Federation.


Noir was halfway through his second century of life thanks to advanced medical technology - he'd never cloned in all that time (if he had, then his apparent physical age would have been a cosmetic choice - the actual clones themselves are in their physical prime).

The capsule pre-dates cloning technology by a long way. It was introduced during the Gal/Cal war. Cloning was only married to the pod in a big way round about YC105, long after the capsule had become widespread in the militaries of all four empires.

While all PLAYER capsuleers are clone-capsuleers, not all capsuleers are clones, basically. It could be that Noir was one of the veterans who preferred to grow old and die alongside his beloved wife rather than become an immortal.

Incidentally, there should totally be a story arc revolving around Mrs. Noir passing away, adamantly insisting her husband's innocence to the end.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#129 - 2014-01-24 21:20:50 UTC
There is a mission, in which a person, NOT a capsuleer, is killed, and the corporation that employed that person, has a backup clone for them. They don't seem to have memory of the events leading to their death though.

So...

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#130 - 2014-01-24 21:40:51 UTC
If you need a body guard, contact myfriendwhoistotallynotme Cat Merc.

Reasonable rates, prototype gear included in price and probably the best protection money can buy.

/Cat Merc is very much a Gallente loyalist, if you're Caldari don't bring up anything against the Gallente or he will make short work of your clone

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Carl O'Neill
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#131 - 2014-02-02 04:13:54 UTC
What's the general stance on the essence of the capsuleer himself, his soul.

Does that even exist in the EVE universe or is that completely left out. Our ancestors come from milky way tho, so I suppose it does. .

So, what happens to your soul when you are made into a capsuleer / killed.
Orland Yormes
Hueromont Interstellar Exploration Inc.
#132 - 2014-02-03 05:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Orland Yormes
Carl O'Neill wrote:
What's the general stance on the essence of the capsuleer himself, his soul.

Does that even exist in the EVE universe or is that completely left out. Our ancestors come from milky way tho, so I suppose it does. .

So, what happens to your soul when you are made into a capsuleer / killed.


The person dies and a clone "inherates" the dead persons personality and memories. It is described as a essence transfer, still I dont believe so. Minmatar elders use a slower transburnal scanner to transfer their memories and leave their brain intact. Also in the first novel Falek Grange is asked if the clone the same person as the one who died and he says they are only echoes of their former selves. So its more of a preserving your physical self then your soul being tranferred to a new body.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#133 - 2014-02-03 21:49:28 UTC
From the Death article:
The possibility looms that cloning may at some point take place outside the strictures of a capsule or a similar machine, though it's considered unlikely that it will ever be anything other than instantaneous.

Because of the short time-period between death and awakening of the clone, this method is not as controversial across the cluster as might have been expected, especially to many religions, who can more easily justify the transmigration of the “soul” from one body to another. However, many religious movements continue to insist that cloned individuals are mere copies, no more the original than a forgery of a work of art can be said to be.
[..]
However, cloning has gained more and more acceptance among the Amarr in recent decades, especially with the rise of capsuleers. Some theologians contend that the soul transmigrates into a new body upon cloning, while others claim that clones are nothing more than soulless shells.

In other words, there is no general stance.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2014-02-05 10:27:07 UTC
Stitcher wrote:
pilots have access to expensive cybernetics, expensive weapons, expensive armour and gear, and if it comes to that, can afford to pay for an elite bodyguard. The pilot themselves may or may not be a dangerous combatant, but the two ex-megacorporate "Personnel Affairs Agents" with DUST implants in their heads and augmented muscles who are following them at a discrete distance in nice and anonymous, but capacious suits?

Bear in mind, in real life there is such a thing as armoured clothing, to be worn by politicians. It's good enough to stop a 9mm handgun at point blank range. and in the EVE world, we know dropsuits have shield emitters, maybe you can buy more discreet ones that operate under clothing.

So the scenario is: you attack the capsuleer. With their heightened cybernetic reflexes, they dodge the attack, or with their expensive armoured executive clothing and shield emitter belt they are spared the worst of it. An instant later their bodyguard have drawn scrambler pistols and you are now a microwave dinner. The capsuleer pays any fines and expenses to the station management and loses the miniscule cost in a cunning tax return the next time they sell a shipment of missile launchers. Your corpse is thrown in the biomass vats and used to fertilise the stations' hydroponics bay.



If brute force does not solve your problem.. then you are not using enough. Use a nuke in a suitcase.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"