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CCP, Training and Unfair - complaint about CCP

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Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2013-07-25 16:55:53 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Additional training time equals revenue for them


Dear obvious ALT of OP,

No it doesn't. That's not how EVE works. You ridiculous goober.

Signed,
Reality
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#82 - 2013-07-25 16:59:42 UTC
Primary Translation:
I made a mistake, can't read, have no concept of time, really don't understand how the whole thing worked, would like reimbursed in ADDITION to all the changes that made my training time even shorter in most area's, and need attention from strangers.

Secondary Translation:
Modestly successful if inept troll attempt.*

*Points deducted for the clumsy "I'm wealthy so it doesn't really matter" gambit. Wasn't needed and too obvious.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#83 - 2013-07-25 17:00:41 UTC
I want to support OP's claim but with one condition

I think the rest of us should be given 6 weeks free SP for having the common sense to read up on patch notes and spend the following 12 months ensuring we and our corpmates were ready.

FFS this was hardly some secret move made by CCP, get over yourself OP.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#84 - 2013-07-25 17:23:35 UTC
We had enough notice of it that I got all 3 characters on this account trained before the deadline, one them could only fly frigates and haulers when I started.. now to train the support skills Lol

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#85 - 2013-07-25 17:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
We had enough notice of it that I got all 3 characters on this account trained before the deadline, one them could only fly frigates and haulers when I started.. now to train the support skills Lol

I got all but two on all accounts fully up-to-speed. One of the exceptions was deliberately left off (too many SP would wreck his role), the other ran out the clock at Dessy V and BC IV.

Not too shabby, actually. :)

Yeah, I wrecked my planned queues, but for something that important, exceptions must be (and were) made. Hell, even my scouts can now fly all racial BCs - Just like they could before ('cause I *made* it happen).

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2013-07-25 17:36:23 UTC
OP: Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL!

silens vesica wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
We had enough notice of it that I got all 3 characters on this account trained before the deadline, one them could only fly frigates and haulers when I started.. now to train the support skills Lol

I got all but two on all accounts fully up-to-speed. One of the exceptions was deliberately left off (too many SP would wreck his role), the other ran out the clock at Dessy V and BC IV.

Not too shabby, actually. :)

Yeah, I wrecked my planned queues, but for something that important, exceptions must be (and were) made. Hell, even my scouts can now fly all racial BCs - Just like they could before ('cause I *made* it happen).


Free SP is free SP.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#87 - 2013-07-25 17:41:07 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Alpheias wrote:
Free SP is free SP.
I don't look at it as free SP. I look at it as 'not falling behind.' By following CCP's roadmap, I made sure that should I ever wish to re-purpose any of those alts, I wouldn't have to climb the new skill laders. To that end, I made damn sure I climbed the skill ladder that was currently in front of me.

SP really don't mean anything. Skill levels (and actual player skill) do. People keep looking at SP like it was some kind of game-winning score. It isn't. It's an administrative tool that tracks your progress in your investment in skill-paths.

Bajillions of SP don't mean anything if you've placed themn higglty-pigglty in random and low-utility skills. OTOH, a couple million SP, properly invested in a well-thought-out plan can place relatively new players on a par in their chosen area with less-focussed players half a decade old.

Look at my lossboard, to see the truth of that. P

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#88 - 2013-07-25 17:44:54 UTC
OP as previously stated the information was everywhere, including but not limited to blogs, log in messages, most of the community being aware (the few exceptions being people like yourself you have to let us all know you were so ignorant) and cans at gates, Yes cans at gates I saw loads of the things around.

Also training for a ship and filling its role is quicker now than before with the removal of training skills.

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2013-07-25 18:09:47 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Free SP is free SP.


It's not.

We didn't gain any new abilities or skills. All we got was higher clone cost.
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2013-07-25 18:15:20 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Free SP is free SP.


It's not.

We didn't gain any new abilities or skills. All we got was higher clone cost.


Compared to those who don't have those skills, you are that much further ahead without needing
to train. So, yes, it is. Feee SP.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2013-07-25 18:44:11 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Compared to those who don't have those skills, you are that much further ahead without needing
to train. So, yes, it is. Feee SP.


I can't find any ships that I can now fly but couldn't fly before it.
flakeys
Doomheim
#92 - 2013-07-25 18:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Donbe Scurred wrote:
OP, I think Flakey's sig says it best: We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

As I have previously said, if you feel the need to write the word unfair in your post you are just wrong.



o.O what the , someone actually read my sig and i didn't even post in this thread ..... o\ VIVE LA REVOLUTION Lol

In regards to OP ,

We have all been there one time or another where we didn't take the time to properly read change X or Y and we all had a bad taste of that one day or the other.However some of us are aware of our verry own mistakes in that process and don't try to lay blaim with others.

The announcement has been as clear as a shining star for a verry verry long time by CCP.Just swallow it up like a man and move on , in eve 40 days extra is nothing so it won't hurt THAT much.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#93 - 2013-07-25 18:48:38 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:

Compared to those who don't have those skills, you are that much further ahead without needing
to train. So, yes, it is. Feee SP.

Wasn't free, I had to invest time, skill points, and in the case of 2 of my characters Isk into a widely publicised, often discussed, change in the game in order to maximise my skill points gain from it.

Now I'm reaping the rewards of my investment by having more expensive clones, and the exact same ships I could fly, no matter how badly, before the change.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
flakeys
Doomheim
#94 - 2013-07-25 18:55:59 UTC
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Free SP is free SP.


It's not.

We didn't gain any new abilities or skills. All we got was higher clone cost.


Compared to those who don't have those skills, you are that much further ahead without needing
to train. So, yes, it is. Feee SP.



We are NOT further ahead , we are at the exact same spot in regards to what we can fly.We did not get any new skills or any shipupgrades .

We ARE further in regard to clonecost.The only time this extra SP MIGHT have a benefit is when i was to sell my character and as such could appraise it for a slightly higher price because of the extra SP.A higher price wich then would pay back for that more expensive clone cost when Lucky .... IF i was to sell my character.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Azurae
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-07-25 18:58:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Tough luck.

They announced it MONTHS ahead of time. You could have gotten it done. I know plenty of people who did.

You are literally asking to be compensated for your own ignorance. Not happening.


actually it was announced 1 1/2 years in advance and EVERYONE was talking about it EVERYWHERE for at least the last 6 month before the change.
Marianne Pollard
Doomheim
#96 - 2013-07-25 19:01:57 UTC
Shadowyfreak wrote:


I do not have the time to read every blog on eve, to find out every miniscule detail.



Salvation awaits. Click here.

Mocking the afflicted since 2013.
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-07-25 19:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Verunae Caseti
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Wasn't free, I had to invest time, skill points, and in the case of 2 of my characters Isk into a widely publicised, often discussed, change in the game in order to maximise my skill points gain from it.


Yes, but you got more SP total after the expansion than you would have been able to gain naturally. So, you got free SP compared to the general population. Not really much of an argument here.

flakeys wrote:
We are NOT further ahead , we are at the exact same spot in regards to what we can fly.We did not get any new skills or any shipupgrades .


To get to the same place you are now, a new player will have to invest more SP than you did.

So you are further ahead now than you were before the expansion.

Basic math.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#98 - 2013-07-25 19:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Verunae Caseti wrote:

Compared to those who don't havedidn't train those skills, you are that much further ahead without needing
to train.

Fixed that for you
Quote:
So, yes, it is. Feee SP.
With zero change in ability to fly ships.
You're still hung up on SP having value. They don't. Before Odyssey, I had "X" number of skillpoints. After Odyssey, I had "X+Y" skill points - And could do nothing I wasn't previously able to do. The SP made NO change to my abilities.

No new ships. No new modules. No new industrial capacity. No changes to my ability to lead a fleet, or run a corporation. NOTHING changed in what I could do in game.

This is what the people frothing-on about SP are absolutely failing to understand.


NOW: If I had failed to follow the published roadmap - If I had felt something was more important than the BC changes, I could have chosen to not train those skills - And would find myself today without the ability to fly ships I *couldn't* fly before. Amazing, eh? Roll

Verunae Caseti wrote:

Basic math.

Basic fail.

SP mean nothing. If I take SP and distribute them foolishly, I will be a failure alongside someone with the exact same number of SP in a 'Toon which trained wisely. Indeed, I would most probably find myself a failure alongside a lesser SP character who had trained wisely.

THAT is the reality of EVE.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Verunae Caseti
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-07-25 19:42:03 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
With zero change in ability to fly ships.


Right, fine. Keep repeating that if you want. Not sure why, though. It's not relevant.

Quote:
Before Odyssey, I had "X" number of skillpoints. After Odyssey, I had "X+Y" skill points - And could do nothing I wasn't previously able to do. The SP made NO change to my abilities.


Yes, but relative to a newbie, you have more skill points after the expansion than you did before, and it will take them more SP after to catch up than it did before.

So you got free SP.

That free SP didn't give you any new skills, but you got free SP nonetheless.

You can't argue otherwise.

Quote:
You're still hung up on SP having value. They don't.


The Character Bazaar begs to differ.

The Character Bazaar value proposition is "How long would it take me to achieve the same abilities from a fresh start?" and the answer before the expansion was less SP than that answer now. Therefore your character is worth more now relative to a new character than it was before.

Quote:
No new ships. No new modules. No new industrial capacity. No changes to my ability to lead a fleet, or run a corporation. NOTHING changed in what I could do in game.


I know, dude. I know. You don't have to go into detail about it. Who are you even arguing with? I never suggested otherwise. Nobody in this thread has.

Quote:
This is what the people frothing-on about SP are absolutely failing to understand.


You are the only one I see frothing, mate.

You got some free SP. I'm not mad about it. It's okay, really. You deserved it for planning ahead. Everyone did. Everyone had plenty of time to qualify for the free SP, and those who got it deserved every point and those who had a chance to get them but didn't deserve what they got to.

But what value is there in arguing that you didn't get free SP? You did. You said it yourself. Before you had X. Now you have X+Y.

Did you train for Y?

No?

Then Y was free.

Let it go.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2013-07-25 19:44:06 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Verunae Caseti wrote:
Compared to those who don't have those skills, you are that much further ahead without needing
to train. So, yes, it is. Feee SP.


I can't find any ships that I can now fly but couldn't fly before it.


Obviously you didn't have the foresight to plug in the command ships skill either... My alt's gone from nighthawk and vulture to every friggin' thing.

Dodixie > Hek