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Making it soo the meta of modules make sense.
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Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-07-24 19:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
Hey guys,

How many people have used meta 4 ecm mods instead of the T2`s
This is just one of my examples show that CCP needs to make the meta of a device really mean something.

Currently alot of meta 4 modules are just as good as the t2 module they are related to and on top of that alot fit better or are cheaper.

Im looking to see if anyone else agress that the meta of modules needs to be balanced so that the high meta you get the overall better the module becomes and makes the t2 or higher metas worth it.
Whitehound
#2 - 2013-07-24 19:32:15 UTC
Update your EFT or PYFA. The Meta 4 1600mm plate has got 4200 HP, the T2 has got 4800 HP.

Please realize that this is not anywhere as important as most other issues. You can choose to use any module you like. If one is cheaper and better and only the meta number seems off then do not complain about it but take it as a gift.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-07-24 19:37:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Baren
Whitehound wrote:
Update your EFT or PYFA. The Meta 4 1600mm plate has got 4200 HP, the T2 has got 4800 HP.

Please realize that this is not anywhere as important as most other issues. You can choose to use any module you like. If one is cheaper and better and only the meta number seems off then do not complain about it but take it as a gift.


I do know the difference between them. It was one of many examples. Lets not forget it requires alot more power grid to fit the T2 that can be seen as not worth it. There are tons of moduels where the T2 version is just not worth it. This is a fairly big issues and a balance of the meta structure would greatly effect new eden
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-07-24 19:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
Baren wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Update your EFT or PYFA. The Meta 4 1600mm plate has got 4200 HP, the T2 has got 4800 HP.

Please realize that this is not anywhere as important as most other issues. You can choose to use any module you like. If one is cheaper and better and only the meta number seems off then do not complain about it but take it as a gift.


I do know the difference between them. It was one of many examples. Lets not forget it requires alot more power grid to fit the T2 that can be seen as not worth it. There are tons of moduels where the T2 version is just not worth it. This is a fairly big issues and a balance of the meta structure would greatly effect new eden

There is far more important stuff to sort out than the order of meta numbers.

If it helps then see it from the following perspective: it also means that players can find items in NPC loot that are as good as T2 items and do not need to be invented, manufactured and marketed by other players first.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Baren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-07-24 21:08:35 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Baren wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Update your EFT or PYFA. The Meta 4 1600mm plate has got 4200 HP, the T2 has got 4800 HP.

Please realize that this is not anywhere as important as most other issues. You can choose to use any module you like. If one is cheaper and better and only the meta number seems off then do not complain about it but take it as a gift.


I do know the difference between them. It was one of many examples. Lets not forget it requires alot more power grid to fit the T2 that can be seen as not worth it. There are tons of moduels where the T2 version is just not worth it. This is a fairly big issues and a balance of the meta structure would greatly effect new eden

There is far more important stuff to sort out than the order of meta numbers.

If it helps then see it from the following perspective: it also means that players can find items in NPC loot that are as good as T2 items and do not need to be invented, manufactured and marketed by other players first.


it should always work like this
meta 14>13>12>11>10>9>8>7>6>5>4>3>2>1 and they should reflect that in ability and price. a meta 4 should not be as good as a T2 meta 5
Doddy
Excidium.
#6 - 2013-07-24 21:11:44 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Baren wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Update your EFT or PYFA. The Meta 4 1600mm plate has got 4200 HP, the T2 has got 4800 HP.

Please realize that this is not anywhere as important as most other issues. You can choose to use any module you like. If one is cheaper and better and only the meta number seems off then do not complain about it but take it as a gift.


I do know the difference between them. It was one of many examples. Lets not forget it requires alot more power grid to fit the T2 that can be seen as not worth it. There are tons of moduels where the T2 version is just not worth it. This is a fairly big issues and a balance of the meta structure would greatly effect new eden

There is far more important stuff to sort out than the order of meta numbers.

If it helps then see it from the following perspective: it also means that players can find items in NPC loot that are as good as T2 items and do not need to be invented, manufactured and marketed by other players first.


Thus nerfing player industry in favour of random low level loot drops, kinda a bad thing.

In truth though the op shouldn't worry about it, ccp know about it and will change it (as tthey already did for a very major example in plates) its just as you say a low priority and will probably mainly be covered with a wholesale tiericide of modules at some point.
Doddy
Excidium.
#7 - 2013-07-24 21:16:48 UTC
Baren wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Baren wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Update your EFT or PYFA. The Meta 4 1600mm plate has got 4200 HP, the T2 has got 4800 HP.

Please realize that this is not anywhere as important as most other issues. You can choose to use any module you like. If one is cheaper and better and only the meta number seems off then do not complain about it but take it as a gift.


I do know the difference between them. It was one of many examples. Lets not forget it requires alot more power grid to fit the T2 that can be seen as not worth it. There are tons of moduels where the T2 version is just not worth it. This is a fairly big issues and a balance of the meta structure would greatly effect new eden

There is far more important stuff to sort out than the order of meta numbers.

If it helps then see it from the following perspective: it also means that players can find items in NPC loot that are as good as T2 items and do not need to be invented, manufactured and marketed by other players first.


it should always work like this
meta 14>13>12>11>10>9>8>7>6>5>4>3>2>1 and they should reflect that in ability and price. a meta 4 should not be as good as a T2 meta 5


I don't think it should even be a case of "better". In my view metas 1-4 should be better than each other in different ways with t2 being the combination of the others but with more skill intensive fittings (and of course skills), then the next tiers of metas should be again better than each in different ways with say meta 10 coming in as a combinationn and so on.

the current "better than" system just leads to far to much scrap lying around. A game where you need to pick whether you will fit the guns with the better tracking, better optimal or better damage rather than have one thats better in every way is much more interesting in my view.
Whitehound
#8 - 2013-07-24 21:34:57 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Thus nerfing player industry in favour of random low level loot drops, kinda a bad thing.

In truth though the op shouldn't worry about it, ccp know about it and will change it (as tthey already did for a very major example in plates) its just as you say a low priority and will probably mainly be covered with a wholesale tiericide of modules at some point.

You are having the same wrong perspective as the OP. The meta level is a virtual attribute and it has no influence on the game and is of no consequence. Only the other attributes do, like activation cost, hitpoints, CPU, etc.. It is therefore nonsense to measure any value to the meta level. The value of an item comes from its performance.

CCP buffed T2 plates to improve armor tanking and introduced new armor tanking modules like the Reactive Armor Hardener and a new skill like Armor Honeycombing. The plates were not buffed to bring the meta level in order.

One is completely free to choose meta 4 over meta 5, or any other meta level. Some meta 3 items then can be better in some cases. Did you then know that some officer mods are just as good as dead space mods?! ...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-07-25 02:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Baren wrote:
Im looking to see if anyone else agress that the meta of modules needs to be balanced so that the high meta you get the overall better the module becomes and makes the t2 or higher metas worth it.



the source of the issue is the ratters and mission runners selling gear for cheap.


For whatever reason lots of people like selling meta gear cheap/fill low ball buy orders. If in another alternate universe eve players sold best named ECM mods for more than T2 mods....I'd then buy the t2 ecm mods.


However we are in this universe and I can buy up named gear cheaper. Not the gear structures fault. Blame the BZ-5 sellers from whom I can buy a few of them to the price of jsut 1 T2 gravimetric jam.


Faction high meta has a handicap, it has a base line price set in stone. Even cutting out the imaginary isk for lp rate lp sellere apply, it has the base cost of tags and/or lp store set price in isk that are basically non-negoatiable. Well tag prices can be but the good gear needs the good tags most don't let go for cheap. If you ask to adjust lp schemes I would + 100000 it, its way outdated especially given so much DS droppage in empire with the exploration push ccp has given.




Besides that...I look at this as eve rewarding creative thinking in fitting. Think t2 or death and not be open minded, fit may not be optimal. Take a few minutes to use in game compare, right click info in eft to see stats, etc....magic can happen. I find it nice over other games where your path is pretty much set in stone. Level up, get gear at that level. Nice a gear picked up week 1 in eve is still of use say 3 years later.

Also nice a s money saver. The say MSE/LSE you bought as a noob still useful however long down the road. Assuming its not blown up ofc.