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Did Dust kill Eve?
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marVLs
#21 - 2013-07-24 05:37:23 UTC
Damn You're ugly Shocked
Ravaun
Sex for Plex
#22 - 2013-07-24 06:23:01 UTC
Theory- I think it's people coming from dust, who are now a potentional massive new player base, wanting it to be like Dust. Cheap, easy, and basically a shooter. Thus, CCP will adapt to get the new player base. Who will shortly thereafter quit to begin with. Just my theory on it, if I'm right, I might sadface, so lets hope I'm not right?
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-07-24 08:08:57 UTC
Dust maybe **** , but i got ton of fun with that game , i really like sometimes to play a mindless fps and fitting and such in dust is cool , atleast to my humble opinion.

If tey cont with the game it can only be made better from now on Lol

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#24 - 2013-07-24 08:45:09 UTC
Dust didnt kill EVE yet, but surely diverted dramatically focus, effort and resources from EVE. Are 2-3 years now we don't see a true EVE espansion.

I wait for the official "fail" of Dust and try to figure what we could have now if all the focus on Dust stayed on EVE.

Ship rebalancing is good in general, but yes, it's also a way to advantage new players (nothing bad in this, I think any MMORPG needs it at some point) and indirectly to reduce the PVP risk/costs and death penalities (this is bad, instead) and an huge stealth nerf to T2.

But mostly: ship rebalancing is cheap, it's only some update on few tables, do not requires a real developing effort and is sold to us as main content for the last so-called "expansions"
Ivan Krividus
Cold Lazarus Inc
The-Expanse
#25 - 2013-07-24 13:39:52 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
No - eve isn't dying yet again.



Current ship rebalance focuses solely around absolute beginners, as anything requiring more than 10m is nerfbatted into the ground compared to T1 frigs and cruisers in an attempt to make generations of old players quit so isk is removed from the economy.


First of all: Typhoon Fleet Issue

OK, so now the game is more skill-based instead of skillpoint-based. Those noobs will have more than 10m SP eventually anyway. Dust, however, is a problem. It should be more similar to EVE. In fact, it could be its own MMO that takes place on the planets.
Lee Hekard
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-07-24 13:45:56 UTC
I CAN TASTE THE BITTERNESS! I LOVE IT WHEN A BITTER VET COMES ON AND STARTS THROWING AROUND THEIR SP LEVELS AND WHAT SKILLS THEY HAVE AT LVL 5 ETC! "OH *SOB* *SOB*, IT'S NOT LIKE THE GOOD OLD DAYS WHEN 'X' AND 'Y' WAS RELEVANT, NOW ALL THE NEW PLAYERS BLAH BLAH BLAH"

HAHAHA! I HAVE <1MIL SP AT THE MOMENT AND I ROCK ASS IN MY T1 FRIG. IT MAKE YOU MAD LIL' BABBY?
Ge Hucel-Ge
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-07-24 15:22:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ge Hucel-Ge
Setaceous wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
Setaceous wrote:

Except the higher SP characters would be able to load out the T1 frigate better (much better) than a newbie character. Unless those high SP ones are missing basic skills in favour of getting into more advanced ships. I also dislike people that do that, what a huge waste of time.



Once you have Frig 5 - T2 guns, tank and support skills what else is there?


So after maybe 10mil sp what advantage is there to the players who invested isk into better ships/fits if T1 ships are now better than faction ships (Frigates are a great example) ?

The high sp players don't 'magically' have Frigates trained to 11.



10mil SP isn't what I'd consider a newbie. Newish maybe, but not a newbie.

Though to answer your question, you don't take the best ship you can fit for your SP to a fight, you take the ship best suited to the role needed in the fight. The advantage is that the higher SP players have more options in their roles.


i don't care about that 10mil sp chars are as good in smaller ships than the old vets - what i care about is the 30 mill clone i have to pay, even i am not more effective than a 10 mil noob in the same ship and situation.


and yes im spacepoor cause of pvp and suck at pve and like to fly in 0.0
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2013-07-24 15:51:06 UTC
Most T2 ships haven't even been touched yet, and even the HAC proposals are only at the 1st pass stage and will be tweaked considerably before it's all done.

Seems a bit early to compare the two.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Whitehound
#29 - 2013-07-24 18:00:44 UTC
Dust will not kill EVE. CCP has got a pretty clean server room and they clean the air filters regularly.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#30 - 2013-07-24 18:12:22 UTC
Man, I totally missed this thread, probably because I don't have Large Collidable Objects on my overview.
Solhild
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-07-24 19:13:35 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
No - eve isn't dying yet again.

However, Dust has proven to be a total failure as predicted.

Current ship rebalance focuses solely around absolute beginners, as anything requiring more than 10m is nerfbatted into the ground compared to T1 frigs and cruisers in an attempt to make generations of old players quit so isk is removed from the economy.

I personally absolutely support Eve as I think that Eve is the only true MMO due to being single-sharded and having a mostly player driven economy, but recent balance passes are insulting to older players to say the least.

Is that contributed to Dust failing or is Eve itself failing due to bad balancing decisions related to Dusts failing?

Discuss.

And yes, in case you're mentally challenged, of course it's me failing and you should apply to my corp for that conclusion.


I get where you're coming from, you speaker of truth.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#32 - 2013-07-24 20:04:02 UTC
I think CCP would have been better off if they'd laughed at the individual that proposed DUST and just focused on Eve and that other game that seems to be operating on the "Soon™" timetable. If they'd done that, maybe WoD would be a lot further forward.

The devs have been working their asses off, but as was seen with Incarna, it's the top level that doesn't know wtf they are doing.
Putting all your eggs in one basket is a bad thing, but start with one, get it working, then start a second one, get it working, and so on. CCP has one working game, but instead of working on WoD as a second, they had to go and start a third before WoD was remotely done.
Personally, I hope the people who invested in DUST lost big time financially. CCP needs to stop trying to be EA Games, and start trying to be CCP.

Profit favors the prepared
Barron Hammerstrike
Medusa Nova Mining And Trade
#33 - 2013-07-24 21:32:25 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
The OP is right.

Some T1 ships have been buffed way too far. The Incursis and Vexor tanking abilities are over the top now.
Nothing of equivalent size and Tier can 1v1 some of the fits going around now for those ships.

The ancillary repper modules were not properly taken into account with the Tiercide changes and have almost broken the game.

And Dust should have been great but CCP just keep pushing people away from it.

Apart from the poor decision to make it console based (Hope they fired the moron who came up with that genius idea) - Most people who dumped all their SP into a particular fit were screwed over in a patch a few weeks ago forcing them to stop playing while the passive SP catches up to allow their fits again.
Or
They could grind to the SP cap for 3 weeks to get the SP but no one with 1/2 a brain would grind for stuff they could already previously use in a console FPS.

It seems that it was an attempt/scam to get people to buy the SP boosters that backfired on CCP and rightly so.

Most like myself found their entire fits in dust to now be no longer usable.
I just stopped playing Dust at that point and I am an eve player used to CCP's poor judgement and lack of understanding of their own player base.
Imagine how the console kiddies would have felt logging in to find their suits and fits useless.


I have no urge to return to Dust. It is pointless trying to progress in it when you might have that progress taken away in a patch.
Dust had potential but deserves to die just for not being what it was advertised as - there is no link between the games except the orbital strike mechanic which is not interesting in any way.


Epic.
Bloody Slave
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2013-07-24 21:53:55 UTC
I could not fly that UBER T1 frigates or cruiser with my 70k+ toons anymore?

Applying to your Corp as soon I find a way to finish this tutorial I started in 2006, it will take some time though.Straight

If your balls are hurt and bleeding don't sit in a pool full of piranhas (note to myself: don't complain in GD)
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#35 - 2013-07-24 21:56:40 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:


Now your argument that higher skill characters should be better at everything (that is what I took from it anyways) is also wrong. EVE developers have always been stressing that if you specialize you will always be able to reach the same effectiveness of a higher skilled player . More skill points will give you more options but will not give you a permanent advantage over newer players, and that is a very good game mechanic (imo).




A very well-considered post here - however I'd like to point out that I never mentioned a higher SP player should be better at everything.

There should be incentives to gain those SP and ship stats that make T2 ships worth the training time and hull cost - currently, I can't see them and the HAC balance pass suggests there won't be any.

Yes - the eagle got buffed - I can fly eagles maxed on the two higher SP chars - did I buy one? No - because my noob alt can fly a Naga at pretty much all V skills.

For the same reason, I never bothered to even buy an interceptor, AF, EAF, HAC or Recon skillbook on the noob alt (made the mistake to buy a BS skillbook because I wrongly hoped they'd get buffed instead of just being shuffled a little).

It's just better to have a noob alt and let yourself get podded home for free and reship 5 times for the cost of one T2 counterpart that's in most cases not even marginally better than the T1 version.

All in all, I was very enthusiastic about rebalance initially, however I didn't expect the current sellout purely serving new players, rendering my older characters just less cost efficient versions of what I trained in a year - and the latter character is running out of things to train for because there's nothing on the horizon even worth considering to train for.

I contribute said sellout to the money sink dust was and the following consequence of eve devs being halted to drag in new players at all cost.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-07-24 22:08:22 UTC
Maybe you'd like to share which T1 frigs will beat their T2 counterparts that in your opinion are no better than their t1 counterparts.

Specifically, let me know which T1 frigs are gonna outbrawl a dual MASB hawk that reps 400DPS before overheat, or an enyo that does 420DPS.
Spurty
#37 - 2013-07-24 22:10:39 UTC
Tiny / Small number of silly huge sized blue listing entities have far more to do with the deadness than a FPS tie in

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-07-25 00:30:27 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:


Is that contributed to Dust failing or is Eve itself failing due to bad balancing decisions related to Dusts failing?

Discuss.

And yes, in case you're mentally challenged, of course it's me failing and you should apply to my corp for that conclusion.


DUST 514 is...

I'm having a hard time actually describing how bad it is at the moment. I'm at something of a loss for words. I play both Eve and DUST, so... yeah.

DUST 514 is/was developed by CCP Shanghai. While I thoroughly enjoyed my beta experience with DUST. It's current state of being leaves MUCH to be desired. After a handful of games in the academy, you're stuffed into public matches for the most part. Either there is no intelligent matchmaking system, or DUST is entirely populated with guys running around in Proto gear stomping the **** out of scrubs.

Eve isn't dying because of DUST. DUST is choking because it was released before it was finished. It's pretty obvious. In the intro video it describes repelling drone incursions and you can't do that at all. There's a laundry list of stuff that is wrong with DUST.

As concerns the iteration and rebalancing of ships in Eve to make them not-shite. CCP is doing a good job of that, for the most part.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-07-25 03:54:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Man, I totally missed this thread, probably because I don't have Large Collidable Objects on my overview.

Teach me your ways, Master...

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#40 - 2013-07-25 05:07:19 UTC
I think the real problem is that CCP didn't rebalance the right ship at the right time. They rebalanced T1 frigs to help noobs, but we are still waiting for black ops and marauder fix. Why the **** are they wasting their time on T1 industrials when a lot of T2 hull need love?