Player Features and Ideas Discussion

No. He pointed out how ECM works several times, but then continued with saying that the other modules stop when they are being turned off suggesting ECM modules either cannot be turned off or turning them off is somehow different from turning off other modules. All modules stop when they are being turned off and it is redundant to mention it.

If you do not get this then ignore it.

I can see where you are coming from with this one and I quite like the idea of long range hulls with damps that shorten the enemy's engagement range so that you can target them but they have no hope of targeting you.

The Gallente use damps to for the opposite reason though to encourage their foes to come within range of their incredibly powerful short range weaponry. Overall though the individual races have distinct fighting styles but I think CCP is encouraging players to mix it up into something new and unpredictable. Given that the Gallente and the Caldari have the same racial heritage they should both offer hulls that have some bonuses to damps and ECM, not equal bonuses mind you, Gallente should still be best at Damps and Caldari should still offer the best ECM, but a hull that has a primary bonus for ECM and a secondary one in Damps would be an immensely versatile ship.

They've done it before the Amarr became drone users overnight and all that started with a little Arbitrator.

Without ECM, logistics rule. Simple as that. Like cloaking and local chat, this is going no where.

It's not just the size of the ship that causes the scaling issue, its the numbers. In small gangs, ECM can be very useful, but this is also true for TDs and SDs. When you look at trying to coordinate blob warfare with ECM, TDs and SDs, there is not a very good system in place to allow for the scaling factor in the effectiveness of EW modules in general because people will cut into other people's targets.

The problem people have with ECM is the fact that it can prevent them from actively fighting back. This makes people angry because they feel like they did back in grade school and the kid that was 2 feet taller then them, was holding their head at arms length. While EW modules like TD and SD gives them the illusion that they can still do something.

Reading through this thread and it has been mentioned about the tank that ECM boats have (whether its the decent or the lack there of), but what really hasn't been touched is the lack of DPS these ships put out. If ECM was to receive a nerf, the ships have to receive a buff in some way, whether its more tank or more gank. But when this happens, then we won't see ECM boats being fielded at all, so then we will see who can simply out gank the other person in PVP. This seems like some amazing depth in PVP combat.

Without ECM
Player 1: I have x dps and x tank
Player 2: Well shucks, you have more dps and tank then me, I guess I lose

With ECM
Player 1: I have x dps and x tank
Player 2: Ok, well I'll lower my dps/tank slightly to lower your Effective DPS more so I can beat you
Player 1: Ok I'll sacrifice some tank/gank and equip ECCM/TC/SB to raise my Effective DPS so I can counter your counter

LOL

Far too lazy to read another "ECM is this, ECM is that" thread. My 2 cents to fixing the ECM problem:
- ECM reduces the amount of targets you can lock according to ECM-strength and your sensor strenght
- Minimum amount of targets you can always lock: 1

-> Useless in solo PVP, as it should be
-> Still very useful in fleet pvp, as it should be

There are other ways to deal with logistics. Sensor damps, for one, could drastically impact them.

ECM being ridiculous is not a logical argument for logistics. Oh hey, new form of Ewar, reduces effectivess of remote repair systems by X% HEYOOO

DPS, Neuts, and damps work too.

ECM isn't the only way.

Logi are meant to reduce the effect of DPS. Yes alpha fleets are a thing but the effect is diminished against over-tanked hulls. New nerfs to links and boosts, the ehp nerf via resist nerf.. these are done to debuff logistics power. Take is as a signal from CCP that they acknowledge that fleet tactics are broken especially when it comes to remote logisitics. EWAR works so poorly that CCP is actually modifying the base stats of ships and entire mechanics to fix the logi problem.

So yes damps and neuts work, they just don't work well enough to matter right now. Perhaps now that abaddons or whatever have neut range bonuses things will change a bit but it hasn't so far in the 2 months since the launch of Odyssey. These nerfs we're seeing on the horizon were planned much further in advance.

Truth is most of this discussion is kind of moot. CCP when they ask for input aren't looking for "don't do this its dumb" they're looking to meet us half-way and do what they want anyway albeit with modified impact.