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is the T3 nerf an attempt to...

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M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#121 - 2013-08-05 02:42:32 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Xtrah wrote:
I think the price, production requirements and skill loss on T3s sorta justifies its current state. Once you've assembled a T3 it can do one role especially well and only that one role until you redo the subsystems on it. As its mainly used by WHers, it also needs to be taken to k-space to be refit, you cant just have the modules in your hangar.

T2 could def use a little buff to have more advantages over T1, but it shouldnt be able to match T3. Nerfing T3s should be done in small steps if anything, with close monitoring of the WH community along the way to make sure it doesn't have a huge negative impact on an important and popular part of the game.

My 2 isk anyway.


why would anyone fly a T2 hull that only can do 1 task as a T3 can perform all those tasks better then any T2 hull can (that is SPECIALY made for that task) ? i asked this question in almost every reply in multiple topics about T3 rebalance nobody answers them i know why and so do you all.

and that is not counting how insanly OP the T3s are (or can be) its realy selfish people that wanna keep their OP T3 ship

T3s outperform T2s at all roles?
We'll I looked at your killboard and nice Bhaalgorn btw, I can see the neut legion is SO OP that you're using that instead of a Bhaal--oh wait. Yea.

Back to T3 vs T2.
Logistics - Guardians and Scimis are used rather than Lokis and Legions
EWar - Falcon outclasses Tengus, Huginns outclass Lokis, Arazus outclass Prots, and Curses outclass Legions.
Boosting - T3s have a 10% advantage, but this doesn't justify a wholesale slaughter of a ship class.


Clearly T3s are not universally better than T2s, so go back to shitpoasting in general discussion and get out of Wormhole subtopic.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#122 - 2013-08-05 02:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Ellendras Silver wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:


why would anyone fly a T2 hull that only can do 1 task as a T3 can perform all those tasks better then any T2 hull can (that is SPECIALY made for that task) ? i asked this question in almost every reply in multiple topics about T3 rebalance nobody answers them i know why and so do you all.

and that is not counting how insanly OP the T3s are (or can be) its realy selfish people that wanna keep their OP T3 ship

That is a lie and you know it!
You only compare T2-ships T2 fit with T3 - faction bling bling ships.
There is no T3 bether then a T2 or a BC.


* rapier paper thin so hardly comparable as it just dies too fast but has slightly better web bonus then loki but who cares if you got paper tank they choose loki anyway
* any HAC (even with changes) dont stand a chance against a T3 even if that T3 is T2 fit
* commandship has 3% per lvl bonus and T3 5% per lvl and both can make decent tank but T3 can get away easier as it can be fitted with nullified and or coverops cloak funny as the T3 is way less training aswell

but keep thinking that mate


Rapier has far superior web range to compensate for the lower EHP.
You forget that cost and SP loss balance ships, and the fact that a T3 costs 3x more than a Rapier needs to be considered.

Again: Logistics
Keep telling yourself that T3s are soooo OP


Edit:

Ellendras Silver wrote:
Bamsey Amraa wrote:
Yep, its not insane because 3 times more expensive than T2 and skill loss when die. You cant compare this two tiers...


obviously you are not going to look at it from a neutral perspective but the selfish i wanna keep my way overpowered ship and i do (and again i fly all races T3 and live in WH aswell) but you know what, i am gonna be happy when the rebalance comes and you going to cry or rage quit. oh can i have your stuff when you quit?


Based on your KB, you've been PVPing in WH for about a month, and most of that time you have flown a Bhaalgorn.
The other times you flew a Loki.

I'm not seeing this omniracial experience you're claiming to have.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Steven Hackett
Overload This
#123 - 2013-08-05 06:40:48 UTC
So.. the conclusion?
Scissors wrote:
Rock is overpowered. Paper is fine.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#124 - 2013-08-05 12:09:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Back to T3 vs T2.
Logistics - Guardians and Scimis are used rather than Lokis and Legions
EWar - Falcon outclasses Tengus, Huginns outclass Lokis, Arazus outclass Prots, and Curses outclass Legions.
Boosting - T3s have a 10% advantage, but this doesn't justify a wholesale slaughter of a ship class.


Clearly T3s are not universally better than T2s, so go back to shitpoasting in general discussion and get out of Wormhole subtopic.

there are exceptions isnt that strange to you that a part of T2 specilized ships are best and no T3 can compare to it. and other T2s are pure **** when you compare them to T3s that is not strange at all?

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-08-05 12:26:14 UTC
haven't seen so much bullsh...ty threads for quite some time Lol

tears, tinfoils, "i quite", whatever...

would read again

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#126 - 2013-08-05 12:34:34 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Back to T3 vs T2.
Logistics - Guardians and Scimis are used rather than Lokis and Legions
EWar - Falcon outclasses Tengus, Huginns outclass Lokis, Arazus outclass Prots, and Curses outclass Legions.
Boosting - T3s have a 10% advantage, but this doesn't justify a wholesale slaughter of a ship class.


Clearly T3s are not universally better than T2s, so go back to shitpoasting in general discussion and get out of Wormhole subtopic.

there are exceptions isnt that strange to you that a part of T2 specilized ships are best and no T3 can compare to it. and other T2s are pure **** when you compare them to T3s that is not strange at all?



T2 are specalized, T3s are more generalized jack of all trades.

T2s are very good at one thing (Repping, EWar, etc.) but htey suffer in other areas (tank, DPS)
T3s are worse at the specalized thing, (they are poor logistics, EWar is weaker than recons, etc.) but have better DPS and Tank to compensate.
They also cost far more, and when lost they cost the pilot 4 days of training.

So if T2s are so terrible, why are Guardians, Scimitars, Oneiros', Rapiers, Huginns, Arazus, Falcons, Zealots, among other ships, flown at all?

T3s aren't as OP as you think.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#127 - 2013-08-05 12:46:10 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
[
T2 are specalized, T3s are more generalized jack of all trades.

T2s are very good at one thing (Repping, EWar, etc.) but htey suffer in other areas (tank, DPS)
T3s are worse at the specalized thing, (they are poor logistics, EWar is weaker than recons, etc.) but have better DPS and Tank to compensate.
They also cost far more, and when lost they cost the pilot 4 days of training.

So if T2s are so terrible, why are Guardians, Scimitars, Oneiros', Rapiers, Huginns, Arazus, Falcons, Zealots, among other ships, flown at all?

T3s aren't as OP as you think.

this is exactly my point and i been posting this since the start. but why is it that some specialized ships suck so hard if you compare them to T3s and with other T2s its the other way around? it doesn't make sense

the only thing that is going to be tricky is make the T3 good enough so it will be a good choice to fly but not so strong that they make T2s with same role blush.

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-08-05 12:52:39 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
but why is it that some specialized ships suck so hard if you compare them to T3s


Give us some examples because idk what you are talking about...

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#129 - 2013-08-05 12:58:12 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
[
T2 are specalized, T3s are more generalized jack of all trades.

T2s are very good at one thing (Repping, EWar, etc.) but htey suffer in other areas (tank, DPS)
T3s are worse at the specalized thing, (they are poor logistics, EWar is weaker than recons, etc.) but have better DPS and Tank to compensate.
They also cost far more, and when lost they cost the pilot 4 days of training.

So if T2s are so terrible, why are Guardians, Scimitars, Oneiros', Rapiers, Huginns, Arazus, Falcons, Zealots, among other ships, flown at all?

T3s aren't as OP as you think.

this is exactly my point and i been posting this since the start. but why is it that some specialized ships suck so hard if you compare them to T3s and with other T2s its the other way around? it doesn't make sense

the only thing that is going to be tricky is make the T3 good enough so it will be a good choice to fly but not so strong that they make T2s with same role blush.


Which specalized ships? None of the recons, none of the logistics.

HACs are worse than T3s, but you have to consider cost and SP loss, and the fact that HACs just suuuccckkk, despite Rise's changes, he hasn't done enough.

Boosting T3s should be brought down to the same as command ships in boosting bonuses.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2013-08-05 13:16:11 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

HACs are worse than T3s...


That kind of depends on what you think makes a ship good or bad. HACs are better at kiting and applying dps at rang.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Bamsey Amraa
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-08-05 13:38:57 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Ellendras Silver wrote:
but why is it that some specialized ships suck so hard if you compare them to T3s


Give us some examples because idk what you are talking about...



Good question. Can You give us examples? Maybe in that way will be easier to discuss without generalize...
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#132 - 2013-08-05 14:05:55 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

HACs are worse than T3s...


That kind of depends on what you think makes a ship good or bad. HACs are better at kiting and applying dps at rang.


Thats true, in brawling T3s are better, but HACs are superior kiters.
So T3s aren't straight up better, they're situationally better.

So T3s are fine. (except boosting, that should be brought in line with CSs)

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2013-08-05 14:45:13 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

HACs are worse than T3s...


That kind of depends on what you think makes a ship good or bad. HACs are better at kiting and applying dps at rang.


Thats true, in brawling T3s are better, but HACs are superior kiters.
So T3s aren't straight up better, they're situationally better.

So T3s are fine. (except boosting, that should be brought in line with CSs)


What he said. Post patch the ships are goign to fill very different niches.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#134 - 2013-08-05 16:37:31 UTC
We shall see soon.

Unless they jump over to doing capitals and industrials, T3's are next.

Yaay!!!!
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#135 - 2013-08-05 17:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Floydy
As others have said, T2 is already much better than T3 at E-war and logistics.

The new HACs are definitely an improvement vs T3s. Not as tanky in most (all?) cases but some nice range and damage application. Really looking forward to flying a Sacrilege with it's currently planned stats.

The Command Ship rebalance is looking fairly good so far. The ability to use links well on grid will make them very useful in a lot of WH combat situations.

At the moment I'd say T3s are still going to get a bit of a nerf, but I reckon it might only be a little less tank + maybe less mobility (and critically for wormholes more mass) rather than being half as good as they are now.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#136 - 2013-08-06 12:59:59 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
As others have said, T2 is already much better than T3 at E-war and logistics.

The new HACs are definitely an improvement vs T3s. Not as tanky in most (all?) cases but some nice range and damage application. Really looking forward to flying a Sacrilege with it's currently planned stats.

The Command Ship rebalance is looking fairly good so far. The ability to use links well on grid will make them very useful in a lot of WH combat situations.

At the moment I'd say T3s are still going to get a bit of a nerf, but I reckon it might only be a little less tank + maybe less mobility (and critically for wormholes more mass) rather than being half as good as they are now.


They'll be a review of the tengu.

They'll look at the 100mn fits.

I they'll touch the fittings vs propulsion vs tank.

Besides that, they'll improve the nonused subsystems and really come up with some interesting fits

I expect they'll come up with a possible logistical fit for these ships "we somewhat need alternatives to the guardian, but that is asking allot out of CCP"

A droneboat setup for the proteus,

tweaks to the laser and ham fits of the legion,

a fix to the dual weaponization of the loki (dual missile/art doesn't work, they'll rework the subsystem),

and just a general review of the tengu itself.

Yaay!!!!
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#137 - 2013-08-06 14:56:14 UTC
I dont think CCP devs agenda on T3 is to make them useless for players and laugh at their misery. Roll
Meytal
Doomheim
#138 - 2013-08-06 15:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Meytal
Demica Diaz wrote:
I dont think CCP devs agenda on T3 is to make them useless for players and laugh at their misery. Roll

That's assuming CCP knows and really understands what WH life and combat is like (ie: generally not like Nullblob warfare at all), which is a huge assumption that probably isn't wise to make.

Expect T3s to be balanced primarily around Nullblob needs and uses, with W-space as only an afterthought, depending on how loudly our CSM reps yell and scream now with T2 and then with T3 changes.
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#139 - 2013-08-06 15:53:02 UTC
Meytal wrote:
Demica Diaz wrote:
I dont think CCP devs agenda on T3 is to make them useless for players and laugh at their misery. Roll

That's assuming CCP knows and really understands what WH life and combat is like (ie: generally not like Nullblob warfare at all), which is a huge assumption that probably isn't wise to make.

Expect T3s to be balanced primarily around Nullblob needs and uses, with W-space as only an afterthought, depending on how loudly our CSM reps yell and scream now with T2 and then with T3 changes.


Bold, italics and underline for emphasis. If you don't expect much from CCP regarding changes, you won't normally be let down.
Rastin Crysknife
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#140 - 2013-08-06 16:31:00 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:

i dont think the price diffrence is such a big deal.


I was just lurking and taking in the thread until you posted this. You are completely full of ****. If price difference isn't as big of a deal, why should faction ships be allowed to outperform their tech1 counterparts? Why should Assault Frigates be allowed to outperform merlins?

If you don't think that price matters in EvE, your opinion is not worth considering.

Bob is always present, watching you traverse space accessable only though wormholes. He is the constant reminder that there is always someone watching you, waiting for your moment of weakness to appear and claim his toll for collecting the bounty of his realm.