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Where are the drone implants?

Author
Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-07-22 10:33:54 UTC
There are implants for almost anything... to boost your shield tank, your armor tank, for all kind of weapon systems, for more damage, better fire rate, less energy consumption. Even for mining, hacking, salvaging and who knows what else.

So you can modify and edge out almost every aspect of your ship, and push it to its limit. With one exception:


Where are the implants for the drones?


Implants to push the drone control range, to make them fly faster, to have them do more dmg, to cause them to have better tracking. Those things exist for every other weapon type. For missiles, projectiles, hybrids and lasers. For all sort of other things.. power grid, cpu and who knows what else. I can modify about anything on my ship i want with implants, and give them a little edge over other things. Just not for drones.


I am flying a drone boat now, compared to my turret based "gunship" before. My Clone went boom, and i thought it may be a good idea to adjust my implants finally from the turret enhancing, to drone enhancing - to find out i am unable to.


This gives pilots that fly purely drone based ships a huge disadvantage. Now that the Dominix is a "true drone boat" after rebalancing (what i quite enjoy, it really hits well now with those sentry drones), i think it is time to give this weapon system some implants as well. I want to be able to push out more damage, or better tracking, or other means to enhance my "weapon system" like all the other implants allow.


My suggestion of what should be there at least:
-Implant to increase a drones MWD speed
-Implant to enhance a drones tracking
-Implant to enhance a drones dmg (maybe split into normal drones and sentries)

Things that could be there optionally:
-Implant to enhance a drones survivablity (more hp/shield)
-Implant to increase drone control range


this would bring them up to par with implants available for any other weapon system. Everyone tweaks their fitting a little with implants. Allow me to do the same with my drone boat - especially now that there are more drone boat choices after the rebalancing.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-07-22 14:39:07 UTC
pretty sure this isn't the first time this has been mentioned
but it still gets my vote

there's a bunch of ships where drones are the primary weapon system
a vulnerable primary weapon system at that
additional implant choices would be good
Tiberu Stundrif
Nifty Idustries
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2013-07-22 15:42:41 UTC
+1 over here. Simply something that will hopefully be addressed when they look at drones later this year.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-07-22 16:05:49 UTC
agreed
Whitehound
#5 - 2013-07-22 16:42:28 UTC
Introducing drone implants will mean that the drone DPS has to be scaled down first. Are you sure you want this?

I rather keep the current drone DPS and use other implants instead.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-22 16:59:01 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Introducing drone implants will mean that the drone DPS has to be scaled down first. Are you sure you want this?

I rather keep the current drone DPS and use other implants instead.


drones need a severe beating with the revision maul anyway

there's nothing stopping the two from occurring at the same time, other than short sighted ineptitude.
Whitehound
#7 - 2013-07-22 17:33:23 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
drones need a severe beating with the revision maul anyway

What is that going to do?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Leskit
Pure Victory
#8 - 2013-07-22 17:53:33 UTC
I'm all for this.

Also faction mods, not the officer mods would be a nice thing too.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#9 - 2013-07-22 18:23:46 UTC
Dominix needs a nerf...

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-07-22 19:26:11 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
What is that going to do?


make the amarrian drones useful and used.

atm pretty much all people use is mostly

hobgoblins or warriors
gardes or bouncers
ec-300's

theres a whole bunch of other drones that are mostly ignored and bypassed, because for the most part those 5 types listed above are superior in every way

drones need a total, complete and full rebalance
not just a minor cosmetic ui tweak.
Whitehound
#11 - 2013-07-22 20:11:12 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
What is that going to do?


make the amarrian drones useful and used.

atm pretty much all people use is mostly

hobgoblins or warriors
gardes or bouncers
ec-300's

theres a whole bunch of other drones that are mostly ignored and bypassed, because for the most part those 5 types listed above are superior in every way

drones need a total, complete and full rebalance
not just a minor cosmetic ui tweak.

Actually the Acolytes are a good counter to the Hornet EC-300s, because the Hornets have mostly shield hitpoints. Warriors are less effective against these while Acolytes are still a lot faster than the Hobgoblins. That many players only use Hobgoblins and Warriors is because they only know what these two are good for. Curators have quite a long range and are good against shield-tanked ships. These have been used successfully by Slowcats against Tengu fleets for instance.

Wardens have the longest range, which might put them a bit behind now that the Dominix has such a strong bonus, but I suspect a nerf is coming to the Dominix. Its 10%-bonuses may have been chosen too high.

Web drones, sensor dampener drones and tracking disruptor drones have a limited use, because of their stacking penalties, but I do not see them being useless. Rather if one would remove the stacking penalties would they become as over-powered as ECM drones. With the announced buff to medium-sized long range turrets (incl. a nerf to their tracking) will these e-war drones become a lot more interesting without buffing them.

Most people simply do not explore their options with drones as much as they could including myself, because there are so many other options one can play around with before it comes down to the choice of drones that one often does not care about them and then picks them in just about the same order as you have listed them.

Making the racial differences a bit more equal could be enough to make players think less about the total DPS and more often about the damage type dealt.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Hexatron Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-07-24 02:02:31 UTC
I have no clue where the idea that drones do so much more dmg should come from. That may be true when drones are used as a weapon system enhancer, in addition to turrets or missiles.

Ever looked at the drone boats, where the drones are the only source of dmg, that sometimes are even fitted without a single turret, as all the dmg comes from drones anyways? Especially in PvE situations?

Any turret ship with all skills on 5 will always out DPS a purely drone boat with skills on all 5. The turret ships get tons of implants to chose from to increase this even more.


On top of that drones have other disadvantages. For example, can your turrets be detroyed? By other PvPers, or by elite NPCs you encounter in missions or sites? Drones are a main weapon system, on some ships the only weapon system.
There are drone travel times, unless you use sentries.
Drones also have tracking issues, unless you fit your ship completely onto drones, what basically means you can leave your guns at home, as they won't hit anything anymore anyways.


So why should they need scaling down to get implants like any other weapon system already has?
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#13 - 2013-07-24 02:42:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucine Delacourt
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
So why should they need scaling down to get implants like any other weapon system already has?




Because all of the drone hulls were just balanced with their current damage and attributes in mind. Obviously they want those hulls doing the amount of DPS they currently do. Adding 6% Drone damage implants would break drone hulls unless they nerfed drone DPS.

All you would be getting is the expense of needing to buy implants to do the damage you already do without them. Oh and you also lose those implant slots for other stuff.
uyguhb
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-07-24 02:45:13 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
What is that going to do?


make the amarrian drones useful and used.

atm pretty much all people use is mostly

hobgoblins or warriors
gardes or bouncers
ec-300's

theres a whole bunch of other drones that are mostly ignored and bypassed, because for the most part those 5 types listed above are superior in every way

drones need a total, complete and full rebalance
not just a minor cosmetic ui tweak.

Actually the Acolytes are a good counter to the Hornet EC-300s, because the Hornets have mostly shield hitpoints. Warriors are less effective against these while Acolytes are still a lot faster than the Hobgoblins. That many players only use Hobgoblins and Warriors is because they only know what these two are good for. Curators have quite a long range and are good against shield-tanked ships. These have been used successfully by Slowcats against Tengu fleets for instance.

Wardens have the longest range, which might put them a bit behind now that the Dominix has such a strong bonus, but I suspect a nerf is coming to the Dominix. Its 10%-bonuses may have been chosen too high.

Web drones, sensor dampener drones and tracking disruptor drones have a limited use, because of their stacking penalties, but I do not see them being useless. Rather if one would remove the stacking penalties would they become as over-powered as ECM drones. With the announced buff to medium-sized long range turrets (incl. a nerf to their tracking) will these e-war drones become a lot more interesting without buffing them.

Most people simply do not explore their options with drones as much as they could including myself, because there are so many other options one can play around with before it comes down to the choice of drones that one often does not care about them and then picks them in just about the same order as you have listed them.

Making the racial differences a bit more equal could be enough to make players think less about the total DPS and more often about the damage type dealt.



Considering the drawbacks of a weapon system that can be destroyed without actually killing the ship i just dont agree at all , the dominix bonuses may seem great until someone starts popping those drones then you are stuck with a ship that cant actually deal damage. Counters being bombs, smart bombs, outright shooting the drones, forcing the drone ship to leave them behind. If i could fit modules to my drones then i would agree but until then being effective with a drone based ship is all about being mindful of my drones.

The gallente race having proper drone ships is refreshing, thank you cpp. sadly heavy drones are very lackluster these days :(
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#15 - 2013-07-24 07:13:43 UTC
I could get behind drone damage implants, drone tracking implants, drone flight speed implants, and drone hitpoint or resist implants. But at a cost - they'd need to take up slots that would otherwise help your ship in a different way.

I really ,really want to see a pirate implant set found from rogue drone sites that has drone related bonuses. However, I would not have the first clue how to balance them.


As for people knocking heavy drones - they do enormous damage at brawling range and if you double-web your target, they can hit any player ship larger than a destroyer and any rat other than an elite frigate or spider drone. Try using them at blaster range, and of course put them away when at sniper range or medium range.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#16 - 2013-07-24 08:54:32 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
So why should they need scaling down to get implants like any other weapon system already has?




Because all of the drone hulls were just balanced with their current damage and attributes in mind. Obviously they want those hulls doing the amount of DPS they currently do. Adding 6% Drone damage implants would break drone hulls unless they nerfed drone DPS.

All you would be getting is the expense of needing to buy implants to do the damage you already do without them. Oh and you also lose those implant slots for other stuff.


I can't comment on CPPs intentions but drones do at best about the same or less DPS than Guns (without Imps)

Orge IIs with a 50% bonus (IE Domi) and four DDAs do about 845 DPS
Garde II with a 50% bonus (IE Domi) and four DDAs do about 800 DPS

T2 Mega Pulse Lasers with a 25% Bonus (IE Abaddon) with four Heat Sinks do 1083 with Conflag and 774 with scorch
T2 Tachs with a 25% Bonus (IE Abaddon) with four Heat Sinks so 931 DPS with gleam, 917 with Imp Multi and 532 with Aurora

Add 2X 6% DPS Imps with the Guns and you get: (not to mention Faction upgrades that drones don't have either)
Megas 1194 and 853
Tachs 1026, 1011 and 586

The thing with drone boats is utility, sure you do less DPS with drone but you get a whole bunch of Highs for Nuets, Cynos , cloak ect ect.

Another thing is cruiser drone boats ( specially the GIla, Vexor and Ishtar) have the same DPS as the BS drone boats and have similar drone bays. They might get a bit OP with Imps.
Whitehound
#17 - 2013-07-24 09:13:48 UTC
uyguhb wrote:
Considering the drawbacks of a weapon system that can be destroyed without actually killing the ship i just dont agree at all , the dominix bonuses may seem great until someone starts popping those drones then you are stuck with a ship that cant actually deal damage. Counters being bombs, smart bombs, outright shooting the drones, forcing the drone ship to leave them behind. If i could fit modules to my drones then i would agree but until then being effective with a drone based ship is all about being mindful of my drones.

The gallente race having proper drone ships is refreshing, thank you cpp. sadly heavy drones are very lackluster these days :(

Mostly true, except drone boats still have high-slots, too.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-07-24 13:05:29 UTC
I'm with Whitehound on this. Say no to nerfing drone dps.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#19 - 2013-07-24 15:40:54 UTC
i like the idea and maybe we can even add drugs to the pool. but there is a catch...

in order tot do this we must first redo drone GUI and rebalance drones as they are broken in so many ways adding stuff will only make it worse to fix.

and the domi is too strong with 50% bonus with gallente BS5 see alliance tournament. specialy as they can use mods to increase this even further. i would say make the bonus 5% tracking and range per lvl and add a drone speed bonus of also 5% per lvl and the navy domi needs to have the same bonus i would say

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]

Doddy
Excidium.
#20 - 2013-07-24 16:01:25 UTC
Hexatron Ormand wrote:
There are implants for almost anything... to boost your shield tank, your armor tank, for all kind of weapon systems, for more damage, better fire rate, less energy consumption. Even for mining, hacking, salvaging and who knows what else.

So you can modify and edge out almost every aspect of your ship, and push it to its limit. With one exception:


Where are the implants for the drones?


Implants to push the drone control range, to make them fly faster, to have them do more dmg, to cause them to have better tracking. Those things exist for every other weapon type. For missiles, projectiles, hybrids and lasers. For all sort of other things.. power grid, cpu and who knows what else. I can modify about anything on my ship i want with implants, and give them a little edge over other things. Just not for drones.


I am flying a drone boat now, compared to my turret based "gunship" before. My Clone went boom, and i thought it may be a good idea to adjust my implants finally from the turret enhancing, to drone enhancing - to find out i am unable to.


This gives pilots that fly purely drone based ships a huge disadvantage. Now that the Dominix is a "true drone boat" after rebalancing (what i quite enjoy, it really hits well now with those sentry drones), i think it is time to give this weapon system some implants as well. I want to be able to push out more damage, or better tracking, or other means to enhance my "weapon system" like all the other implants allow.


My suggestion of what should be there at least:
-Implant to increase a drones MWD speed
-Implant to enhance a drones tracking
-Implant to enhance a drones dmg (maybe split into normal drones and sentries)

Things that could be there optionally:
-Implant to enhance a drones survivablity (more hp/shield)
-Implant to increase drone control range


this would bring them up to par with implants available for any other weapon system. Everyone tweaks their fitting a little with implants. Allow me to do the same with my drone boat - especially now that there are more drone boat choices after the rebalancing.



All the implants use the associated skill, so it makes sense for them to make implants for those skills. Of those you list the only one that doesn't have an associated skill is tracking, so there isn't really a place for that one (or they would have a skill for it). So drone nav, drone durablitty, drone control range (they should rename the scout drone skill/EWDI in their great skill renaming anyway), combat drone ops, heavy drone ops, sentry drone ops, drone sharpshooting. Combat drone ops, heavy drone ops and sentry drone ops should all be the same implant slot which leaves you with four others for four slots looking purely at combat drones, fits kinda perfectly. Then you could have mining drone ops and salvage drone ops implants as well to give the bears something, maybe also the repair drone skill. The drones skill itself, drone interfacing and advanced drone interfacing have no place in being implants, nor do the racial drone spec skills.
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