These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Attention all miners - if you are ganked, its YOUR OWN FAULT.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
HydroVolcano
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#101 - 2011-10-26 04:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: HydroVolcano
Why don't the carebears stop crying and wait for CCP to make mining more interesting, that way they're distracted when they are about to be ganked Lol

EDIT:

BTW, isn't there a mining ship with +1 or 2 warp strength? sounds like a lowsec miner to me
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2011-10-26 04:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hecatonis
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Mr Bill Bravor wrote:
What works in lowsec is not practical in hisec. While you may be able to avoid getting ganked you wouldn't get any mining done so essentially you would be wasting your time.

If you convinced everybody to do this what would keep a single pilot from warping in to each belt every five minutes just to make them all warp out? You would have a ganker with no ganks and a bunch of miners with no ore. Sounds kind of boring.


What works in lowsec works in highsec, and works in nullsec. It's a simple principle - adjust the range of your D-scan to only be showing things in the area immediately bubbling the belt where you are working. If you go setting your D-scan to max range, you'll be flooded with useless junk. It's a precision instrument - use it precisely.

And you're right, there isn't anything stopping a hostile ship from warping in and spooking everyone and causing them to scatter.

How many times must it be said though, there are thousands of near-empty systems in the game with riches far exceeding what can be mined in a highsec belt? Why is everyone insisting on remaining in highsec? Where is the willingness to adapt to a changing situation?

Anyone on these forums can see the truth of the situation clear as glass - highsec is a crowded, hostile space, rife with people looking to harass miners. Why do you want to stay there so bad, when you can have a much more relaxing time in lowsec instead?

When I harvest/mine in lowsec, I only have to spam D-scan whenever another player enters the system. The rest of the time I can munch on snacks, watch ****, do homework, and keep an eye on things. But if someone that could kill me enters the system, I'm right there on the scanner, protecting my ship. Attentiveness is better than any tank.

This complaining is still quite unfounded - if the problem is that directional scanner brings up too much highsec clutter, or the problem is that you dont like losing a shred of isk per hour, the solution is still simple, and still the same - mine elsewhere.



so i just did an experiment in my nice little corner of high sec average population 10

i sat at a field for 30 min set d-scan at max range and spammed it every 2 seconds. 20 ships that could be fitted with the firepower to kill hulk before concord came by. that would mean i would have to jump a hulk or smaller out of mining range every 1.5 min.

i then spend another 30 min with my d scan at half range, 14 ships flew by, that would mean i would have to jump out every 2.5 mins

then for 30 min i used my d scan at quarter range. 5 ships flew past that could kill a hulk.

if my numbers are right, at 536870911km that would give me about 2.3 sec. of warning, at best a third of a second at worse, to jump, here is hoping that i was at 75% speed, because if i wasnt i would be dead. good think i was in an abbadon.

your ideas dont work in high sec because almost every system is like this, and the one that are not like this is because there is nothing of value so why would anyone go there anyways.

nul and lowsec tricks dont work in highsec because population is too high, concord doesn't let us actively remove people out of system, and it has too much traffic passing through.

tanking your ship doesnt work because a fully tanked hulk and still be taken out by ships that would cost less.

The only thing a miner can do it swap out ships to something cheaper and smaller, and the only one who wins are the macro ratters and miners in nul sec. because it is the only place that can be policed properly and they will benefit from the high prices of minerals.

edit: typing errors
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#103 - 2011-10-26 04:12:47 UTC
HydroVolcano wrote:
Why don't the carebears stop crying and wait for CCP to make mining more interesting, that way they're distracted when they are about to be ganked Lol

They don't care about making mining more interesting. They want to be able to afk mine in complete safety.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2011-10-26 04:17:29 UTC
I would love to have mining more interesting , wouldn't everyone? Last i heard more content is good bros.

I have more space likes than you. 
HydroVolcano
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#105 - 2011-10-26 04:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: HydroVolcano
Hecatonis wrote:

so i just did an experiment in my nice little corner of high sec average population 10

i sat at a field for 30 min set d-scan at max range and spammed it every 2 seconds. 20 ships that could be fitted with the firepower to kill hulk before concord came by. that would mean i would have to jump a hulk or smaller out of mining range every 1.5 min.

i then spend another 30 min with my d scan at half range, 14 ships flew by, that would mean i would have to jump out every 2.5 mins

then for 30 min i used my d scan at quarter range. 5 ships flew past that could kill a hulk.

if my numbers are right, at 536870911km that would give me about 2.3 sec. of warning, at best a third of a second at worse, to jump, here is hoping that i was at 75% speed, because if i wasnt i would be dead. good think i was in an abbadon.

your ideas dont work in high sec because almost every system is like this, and the one that are not like this is because there is nothing of value so why would anyone go there anyways.

nul and lowsec tricks dont work in highsec because population is too high, concord doesn't let us actively remove people out of system, and it has too much traffic passing through.

tanking your ship doesnt work because a fully tanked hulk and still be taken out by ships that would cost less.

The only thing a miner can do it swap out ships to something cheaper and smaller, and the only one who wins are the macro ratters and miners in nul sec. because it is the only place that can be policed properly and they will benefit from the high prices of minerals.

edit: typing errors


You do know, max range on dscan is 14.4AU, or 2,147,483,647km

Someone earlier also said you scan 2.1 million km, which is incorrect. I read 2.1 BILLION km.

So doing a little math, you can figure out what would be landing on you. Say you're in a belt, and the closest thing is 3AU from you - including other belts. Why wouldn't you set your dscan to be shorter than that range, that way you aren't scanning 2/3 of the system, but just what is nearby. If nothing is coming your way guess what - you won't get any hits on scan - the only thing you wouldn't pick up is a cloaked ship.

Set your range even shorter and you can pick up a ship thats about to land. How long does it take your spaceship to finish the last moment of warp - .5AUish - quite a while. That said, you could even be sitting still and have enough time to align and GTFO before anything locked you.

I haven't mined since my first weeks in eve, and I really don't intend on revisiting it. But for those of you who insist on mining... take a little advice from people that know how the rest of the game works.
Donald MacRury
LankTech
#106 - 2011-10-26 04:48:40 UTC
Not sure how everyone else mines, but this is how i usually do it:

I mine in a back end hi sec system where I have a pos. I keep my local window seperated and streatched across the screen so i can see everyone. I don't usually bother with the active allign but I do try to keep a little distance from the roids so I don't get stuck in them.

If i see any shady characters appear in local, people marked red, or WTs while at War (usually would have a scout a jump or two away in those cases), then I would fleet warp to the POS.

In cases when I know the risk is higher, like ice mining, i'll use covetors instead of macks/hulks and fit them more for tank.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#107 - 2011-10-26 04:52:02 UTC
Hecatonis wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


dont like losing a shred of isk per hour, the solution is still simple, and still the same - mine elsewhere.



The only thing a miner can do it swap out ships to something cheaper and smaller, and the only one who wins are the macro ratters and miners in nul sec. because it is the only place that can be policed properly and they will benefit from the high prices of minerals.


The only other thing a miner can do is what I already said that you ignored - mine elsewhere.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2011-10-26 05:38:28 UTC
HydroVolcano wrote:


You do know, max range on dscan is 14.4AU, or 2,147,483,647km

Someone earlier also said you scan 2.1 million km, which is incorrect. I read 2.1 BILLION km.

So doing a little math, you can figure out what would be landing on you. Say you're in a belt, and the closest thing is 3AU from you - including other belts. Why wouldn't you set your dscan to be shorter than that range, that way you aren't scanning 2/3 of the system, but just what is nearby. If nothing is coming your way guess what - you won't get any hits on scan - the only thing you wouldn't pick up is a cloaked ship.

Set your range even shorter and you can pick up a ship thats about to land. How long does it take your spaceship to finish the last moment of warp - .5AUish - quite a while. That said, you could even be sitting still and have enough time to align and GTFO before anything locked you.

I haven't mined since my first weeks in eve, and I really don't intend on revisiting it. But for those of you who insist on mining... take a little advice from people that know how the rest of the game works.


you accelerate from 1/2 max warp to zero in the last 3 seconds if memory serves it is roughly an average speed of 1 au/sec

1/4 range on d scan is 3.5 Au that gives you about 3.5 seconds, your right i did make a mistake, that gives 3.5 to 1.5 secs to jump to warp. that includes the time you are on grid and unable to do anything
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2011-10-26 05:48:26 UTC
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!

Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????

******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about.



erm......what exactly are you saying........??????????




He doesn't understand that OP mean static align, not active align.

#1 thing I've see miners do wrong all the time - burying themselves in a rock field, leaving no clear warp out path. Sad...



edit reason: fail forums....


What's static align?

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2011-10-26 06:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hecatonis
Zagdul wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!

Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????

******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about.



erm......what exactly are you saying........??????????




He doesn't understand that OP mean static align, not active align.

#1 thing I've see miners do wrong all the time - burying themselves in a rock field, leaving no clear warp out path. Sad...



edit reason: fail forums....


What's static align?


its this strange event that assume the physics engine cares what direction you are facing when moving. he thinks engines on the back means your ship must face the direction it wants to go
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2011-10-26 06:10:23 UTC
Hecatonis wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
Zleon Leigh wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!

Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????

******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about.



erm......what exactly are you saying........??????????




He doesn't understand that OP mean static align, not active align.

#1 thing I've see miners do wrong all the time - burying themselves in a rock field, leaving no clear warp out path. Sad...



edit reason: fail forums....


What's static align?


its this strange event that assume the physics engine cares what direction you are facing when moving. he thinks engines on the back means your ship must face the direction it wants to go


oh dear.

poor ignorant soul.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2011-10-26 06:45:04 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
Hecatonis wrote:


its this strange event that assume the physics engine cares what direction you are facing when moving. he thinks engines on the back means your ship must face the direction it wants to go


oh dear.

poor ignorant soul.


who would have thought that 1337 PvPers are taking lessons from highsec carebears.

taking one from their books

"dont suggest tactics, changes, and tips for subjects you are completely devoid of any knowledge of."

between trying to spam d scan in highsec, static alinement, put a better tank on your ships, and move somewhere else all i have to say is

1) cant scan at a range to give yourself enough warning without having to jump every 2 minutes or cluttering up the scan and missing what is important
2) that is so wrong on so many different levels
3) they can always kill your ship at less cost to them
4) if everyone moves so will the goons, do you really think they will stop ganking because they have to change regions?

i have said it before and i will say it again, all this highsec ganking is benefiting one group of people, the macro users in nul sec. no one else.

congrats goons, but i do expect it from you guys. you are at least are honest about it ruining the game for everyone else.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#113 - 2011-10-26 08:20:55 UTC
Hecatonis wrote:


i have said it before and i will say it again, all this highsec ganking is benefiting one group of people, the macro users in nul sec. no one else.

congrats goons, but i do expect it from you guys. you are at least are honest about it ruining the game for everyone else.


These tears.....I never thought I'd be so drawn to them......but I must admit......they are delicious.

I can see why this stuff is addictive.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2011-10-26 08:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Hecatonis wrote:
[quote=Zagdul][quote=Hecatonis]

i have said it before and i will say it again, all this highsec ganking is benefiting one group of people, the macro users in nul sec. no one else.

congrats goons, but i do expect it from you guys. you are at least are honest about it ruining the game for everyone else.


Uh, Goons tend to have overview bugs when they find miners in their space.

True story.

E: something about mining barges having a glitch in the standings icon or something.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Naran Eto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#115 - 2011-10-26 08:26:44 UTC
Veronica Kerrigan wrote:
Moreover, Highsec dscan is so cluttered as it is that even during wartime it isn't a good intelligence tool. For your plan to work, you have to sort through every yahoo in a combat ship worth less than 100 mil


Reduse the distance on the d-scan to around 0.5au, and keep hitting that refesh button, that's all the warning tiem you need, plenty of time to hit warp if aligned and you won't get so much clutter on the scan.
mogwai
Gremlin Mining and Exploration
#116 - 2011-10-26 08:27:53 UTC
Andski wrote:
I'd like to mention that most of the advice given in this thread (particularly by Hans and CorpAlt whatever) is actually very sound advice. If you are shocked by the concept of putting an iota of effort into protecting your assets, and instead opt to fill up the forums with rage-threads (to our delight), then you are playing the wrong game.


1. I cant believe it, but i actually agree with a Goon Shocked Well said Andski Smile

2. There are many low sec 'dead-end' systems with belts that are 30 / 50 AU from the nearest stargate. Keep local open, check the info of everyone jumping through. Stay static aligned and be ready to initiate warp if something appears on the D Scan.

Not 'all' low sec is 100% roamed by people looking for and easy kill, sometimes its upto a couple of days before someone tries thier luck.
Also, make friends and communicate with other players within the system you live.... it could be worth it for the intel at a later date.
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2011-10-26 08:30:13 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Warp is not instant - it takes time for you to travel. If the ganker, lets say a brutix, is out of scan range, they appear on scan the minute they enter scan range. Being in warp does not make you immune to scans.

Scanning occurs instantly and in real time - if a Brutix is more than 14 AU away from you, and a Brutix travels at 3 AU a second, you have 4.6 seconds where they are scannable before they land.


Posting in thread of miner sadness to point out that you have significantly more than 4.6 seconds.

– postum faex est – 

never forget
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2011-10-26 08:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
mogwai wrote:
Andski wrote:
I'd like to mention that most of the advice given in this thread (particularly by Hans and CorpAlt whatever) is actually very sound advice. If you are shocked by the concept of putting an iota of effort into protecting your assets, and instead opt to fill up the forums with rage-threads (to our delight), then you are playing the wrong game.


1. I cant believe it, but i actually agree with a Goon Shocked Well said Andski Smile

2. There are many low sec 'dead-end' systems with belts that are 30 / 50 AU from the nearest stargate. Keep local open, check the info of everyone jumping through. Stay static aligned and be ready to initiate warp if something appears on the D Scan.

Not 'all' low sec is 100% roamed by people looking for and easy kill, sometimes its upto a couple of days before someone tries thier luck.
Also, make friends and communicate with other players within the system you live.... it could be worth it for the intel at a later date.


pro tip: there's no such thing as static (passive) aligned. It's an old wives tale that does absolutely nothing.

test it. no lie. Your ship will take just as long to get into warp from 0 facing the opposite direction from where you're headed than if you were facing that direction.

Its why you see freighters/caps warping sideways.

It's not the direction your ship is facing that gets you to warp faster. It's how long it takes for your ship to get to 3/4 speed.



EDIT: You're better off being at 0 velocity.

This is also why it's a bad idea for interceptors to "orbit" a gate. If the target you're trying to decloak appears behind you, your ship will have to turn around to get to it's target. However, if you sit @0 velocity on the gate, your ship doesn't need to "turn", it "spins" on an axis and goes directly at the target.

Test it with a ship like an industrial that takes a long time to get into warp. Jump through a gate so your ship is at absolute zero, warp to an object behind you and time it.

Then try it with an object in front of you.

You'll find the times match.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2011-10-26 08:37:02 UTC
Ice miners should start webbing each other, that would be hilarious.

– postum faex est – 

never forget
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2011-10-26 08:39:12 UTC
Phill Esteen wrote:
Ice miners should start webbing each other, that would be hilarious.

This is actually pretty good advice.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement