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Attention all miners - if you are ganked, its YOUR OWN FAULT.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#41 - 2011-10-25 23:27:12 UTC
CorpAlt 18368 wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
What's this nonsense about being aligned? You've been spotted, frig uncloaks and bumps the hell out of you, allowing ample time for BC or even BS to lumber in and kill ya.


If you are aligned, at full speed (someone pointed out how to do this while giving yourself 7 minutes till you're out of harvester range), than when a frig decloaks next to you, warp off.


That's actually at 75% of max speed. You don't need to be at full speed to instantly enter warp, only 75%.


I know, I should have been more specific. This is, after all, an educational thread. Pardon my lack of specificity Smile

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Lil' Miss Sunshine
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-10-25 23:28:24 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
What's this nonsense about being aligned? You've been spotted, frig uncloaks and bumps the hell out of you, allowing ample time for BC or even BS to lumber in and kill ya.


If you are aligned, at full speed (someone pointed out how to do this while giving yourself 7 minutes till you're out of harvester range), than when a frig decloaks next to you, warp off.

Don't give them time to align. You must be absolutely situationally aware, finger on the button, to GTFO. But if you're prepared, than the second you spot danger you are in warp, with zero wait time. Its not difficult, just takes focus.


No offense, but you really should try mining before offering this advice. I'm sure to a non-miner it seems like sound advice. But take my word, it isn't. Nevermind the fact a miner is dumping the ore on a stationary container What?.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-10-25 23:30:14 UTC
Karadion wrote:
You fail to understand why the miner's are complaining. They want to run their bots without worrying about getting ganked.


lol like another corp I know

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2011-10-25 23:34:32 UTC
Lil' Miss Sunshine wrote:
No offense, but you really should try mining before offering this advice. I'm sure to a non-miner it seems like sound advice. But take my word, it isn't. Nevermind the fact a miner is dumping the ore on a stationary container What?.


Ore miners are only at risk from casual gankers, not the GSF interdiction campaign. There is literally no reason to mine asteroids in Gallente high-sec, especially not in an ice system. Don't be an idiot.
Lil' Miss Sunshine
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-10-25 23:36:04 UTC
CorpAlt 18368 wrote:
Lil' Miss Sunshine wrote:
No offense, but you really should try mining before offering this advice. I'm sure to a non-miner it seems like sound advice. But take my word, it isn't. Nevermind the fact a miner is dumping the ore on a stationary container What?.


Ore miners are only at risk from casual gankers, not the GSF interdiction campaign. There is literally no reason to mine asteroids in Gallente high-sec, especially not in an ice system. Don't be an idiot.


Did you even read what I was addressing?
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#46 - 2011-10-25 23:38:27 UTC
Lil' Miss Sunshine wrote:

No offense, but you really should try mining before offering this advice. I'm sure to a non-miner it seems like sound advice. But take my word, it isn't. Nevermind the fact a miner is dumping the ore on a stationary container What?.


I do mine regularly. Not always on this account, but I have on this toon as well.

My lossmails are public info, review them and you'll find the mining ships I lost due to complacency.

I'm not simply pulling this out of my ass.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-10-25 23:43:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CorpAlt 18368
Lil' Miss Sunshine wrote:
CorpAlt 18368 wrote:
Lil' Miss Sunshine wrote:
No offense, but you really should try mining before offering this advice. I'm sure to a non-miner it seems like sound advice. But take my word, it isn't. Nevermind the fact a miner is dumping the ore on a stationary container What?.


Ore miners are only at risk from casual gankers, not the GSF interdiction campaign. There is literally no reason to mine asteroids in Gallente high-sec, especially not in an ice system. Don't be an idiot.


Did you even read what I was addressing?


Hulks are able to hold two full cycles worth of ice in their cargoholds. You have 5 minutes from the time your second cycle ends to shove your ice into an Orca, or 5 minutes from the end of your first cycle to transfer it to your hauler via GSC. It is not a point of contention.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2011-10-25 23:46:31 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Dbars Grinding wrote:
Finding a dead end system helps also...


This works in the most populated highsec hub as well as it does in the most empty system in nullsec.

And it works 100% of the time.

Instead, we have megathreads debating how to tank your mackinaw. *facepalm*

Best tank is to warp away.



hmm ok so you accordingly to your theory.. all miners in high sec need to do is clicking d-scan every 2s and once they see brutixes or something they dont like on it they hit warp .. well there is an chance about 1 percent at best that they will actually warp out sooner then the offenders warp in ..

What an brilliant idea.

However it would be quite fun to see mackinaws warp in off in off in every 20s .. not sure if they would actually mine anything .. but it would be hilarious ..

So not an awesome tool is it.

And saying if you are ganked/suicide ganked its your own fault. Well try to project it with some real life events Big smile Sure everything its your own fault, if you havent logged in or you havent had an EVE account than its more likely you wont get suicide ganked in high sec
Jita Alt666
#49 - 2011-10-25 23:46:33 UTC
Jet caning Ice? Who is stupid enough to do this?
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-10-25 23:51:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


Here's the skinny -

This technique is 100% foolproof - if you are ganked, it is because you were not watching for danger.


Completely False.

One cloaky ship sitting oppostie to the the inended victem of the brutix / cane sitting outside of scan range.
Warp to 10 km of the cloaking puts you at point blank range.

All the clicking in the world isn't going to get you out of the belt before you are destroyed.

But then again this is a game of lieing and scamming so I have to presume you are trying to get some poor miner to think they are completely safe.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-10-25 23:51:54 UTC  |  Edited by: CorpAlt 18368
Additionally, I'd like to mention that sitting still next to your GSC while mining is convenient, but not a bright idea, as you are essentially saving gankers the effort of lining up an optimal warpin.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#52 - 2011-10-25 23:53:45 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:


hmm ok so you accordingly to your theory.. all miners in high sec need to do is clicking d-scan every 2s and once they see brutixes or something they dont like on it they hit warp .. well there is an chance about 1 percent at best that they will actually warp out sooner then the offenders warp in ..

What an brilliant idea.


It's not theory, and its not my brilliant idea. It's just fact. If you are aligned, and you see something on scan, and you punch warp, there is a 100% chance you will escape - if you are properly aligned at speed, you instawarp.

Instalocking ships cannot lock something that has insta-warped even a fraction of a second before they load grid upon landing. The person watching their scanner has the advantage 100% of the time.

And yes, by watching the scanner I mean exactly that you should be punching it every 2 seconds. The less often you punch it, the more you deserve to lose your ship when an obvious gank warps in on you.

This is how everyone gets stuff done everywhere else in the game, and it works brilliantly. Whether you are ratting, mining, providing ganglinks, or waiting at a safe spot.

Defensive scanning techniques are a fundamental part of staying alive when faced with a hostile environment. The only problem is that miners dislike the fact that the hostile environment has come to them. There is no safe zone anymore, but that in no way breaks the game. Just forces people to pay attention while playing it.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-10-25 23:57:07 UTC
I'd like to mention that most of the advice given in this thread (particularly by Hans and CorpAlt whatever) is actually very sound advice. If you are shocked by the concept of putting an iota of effort into protecting your assets, and instead opt to fill up the forums with rage-threads (to our delight), then you are playing the wrong game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Hecatonis
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2011-10-26 00:01:09 UTC
Morganta wrote:
bilingi wrote:
Typical IAM STUPID post from OP. You can tell you dont mine. SO maybe shut up and go back to buying plexes and RMT ratting?

WHat an afk cloaker came in so you are waiting to redeploy your bots?


you would have less rage if you shot at something that shot back


i find this funny coming from someone that for suicide ganking.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#55 - 2011-10-26 00:02:21 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


Here's the skinny -

This technique is 100% foolproof - if you are ganked, it is because you were not watching for danger.


Completely False.

One cloaky ship sitting oppostie to the the inended victem of the brutix / cane sitting outside of scan range.
Warp to 10 km of the cloaking puts you at point blank range.

All the clicking in the world isn't going to get you out of the belt before you are destroyed.

But then again this is a game of lieing and scamming so I have to presume you are trying to get some poor miner to think they are completely safe.


I am in no way lying or scamming. I am sharing information, that's it. And apparently, these lessons are sorely needed as clearly people dont know these fundamentals.

Let me break it down -

Warp is not instant - it takes time for you to travel. If the ganker, lets say a brutix, is out of scan range, they appear on scan the minute they enter scan range. Being in warp does not make you immune to scans.

Scanning occurs instantly and in real time - if a Brutix is more than 14 AU away from you, and a Brutix travels at 3 AU a second, you have 4.6 seconds where they are scannable before they land.

If you are repeatedly spamming your scanner, as ridiculously as it sounds, then they are completely scannable before they land. Only cov ops ships are unscannable in warp.

If any miners still think this is an elaborate troll, just take some time and practice it. Dont take my word for it. Grab a ship, get a friend on the other side of the system with a ship name you'll recognize. Have them warp to you. Spam scanner. Notice how they appear on you scan as they get within 14 AU or less of you.

People can keep calling me a liar, but this is how the game works. I understand, spamming your scanner is an inconvenience. But it works.


CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2011-10-26 00:03:00 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:


hmm ok so you accordingly to your theory.. all miners in high sec need to do is clicking d-scan every 2s and once they see brutixes or something they dont like on it they hit warp .. well there is an chance about 1 percent at best that they will actually warp out sooner then the offenders warp in ..

What an brilliant idea.


It's not theory, and its not my brilliant idea. It's just fact. If you are aligned, and you see something on scan, and you punch warp, there is a 100% chance you will escape - if you are properly aligned at speed, you instawarp.

Defensive scanning techniques are a fundamental part of staying alive when faced with a hostile environment. The only problem is that miners dislike the fact that the hostile environment has come to them. There is no safe zone anymore, but that in no way breaks the game. Just forces people to pay attention while playing it.


Well

if you put it that way sure thats true. If you are alligned at 75 percent or max speed you instawarp and you are fine by then, however its tedious.

If you are passive alligned then there is really small chance you would warp out before they warp in and lock and point you.

They can actually mine at null sec with about same risk involved actually less risk since you see local and everything is hostile you dont have to guess twice.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-10-26 00:07:23 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Well

if you put it that way sure thats true. If you are alligned at 75 percent or max speed you instawarp and you are fine by then, however its tedious.

If you are passive alligned then there is really small chance you would warp out before they warp in and lock and point you.

They can actually mine at null sec with about same risk involved actually less risk since you see local and everything is hostile you dont have to guess twice.


Nullsec mining? You're kidding, right?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#58 - 2011-10-26 00:07:39 UTC
Andski wrote:
I'd like to mention that most of the advice given in this thread (particularly by Hans and CorpAlt whatever) is actually very sound advice. If you are shocked by the concept of putting an iota of effort into protecting your assets, and instead opt to fill up the forums with rage-threads (to our delight), then you are playing the wrong game.


Bah, why'd a Goon have to go and agree with me? Now you've tarnished my credibility :)

But please, for the love of Chribba - if you don't believe me, go out and try this technique. Defensive scanning is amazingly powerful and easy, just takes focus.

Anything you can do in highsec you can do in lowsec or nullsec, and relatively gank-free (barring travel) if you use your scanner in this fashion. Take this lesson as an opportunity to expand you horizons - its a huge game, and lots of fun stuff to try. Defensive scanning makes all kinds of gameplay possible if you want to protect your investment regardless of what threats present themselves.

I say this not to make every miner feel stupid or ******, I say this because I want you to be empowered to go explore new areas and not live in constant fear of a threat you can completely mitigate with a bit of effort.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2011-10-26 00:10:42 UTC
Andski wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Well

if you put it that way sure thats true. If you are alligned at 75 percent or max speed you instawarp and you are fine by then, however its tedious.

If you are passive alligned then there is really small chance you would warp out before they warp in and lock and point you.

They can actually mine at null sec with about same risk involved actually less risk since you see local and everything is hostile you dont have to guess twice.


Nullsec mining? You're kidding, right?


Actually i dont since thats probably only thing you can do in 90 percent of useless null systems since they are above -0,5 or whatever the number is Big smile

/sorry for off-topic
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#60 - 2011-10-26 00:25:06 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:


/sorry for off-topic


No need for apologies, this is completely on topic.

If I can help even a few people realize that mining in lowsec/nullsec is even easier than mining in highsec during ganking season, than I'll be happy I spoke out about this. learning to defensively scan opens up a huge part of the game that they previously ignored out of unnecessary fear, and will lead to them having much more fun with Eve in the long run.

The Goons are trying to help you all out too - they've just got an ******* image to uphold while they do it :). They are rightfully pushing players to expand their boundaries and think outside the box, and to try new things without needless fear. Sadly, no one is listening to the buckets of advice out there, and choosing to complain and argue back instead of just getting out there and having fun outside of their normal comfort zone.

The Goons are even telling players straight up how to avoid their own attacks, and people still are refusing to adapt. The "Great Goon Menace" just isn't that scary when they've given their own tricks away, and told you where they'll come to kill you.

This is why I said, if you get ganked, its your own fault. Go live fearlessly, miners and industrialists - get out and explore - find a rich quiet system and mine without hassle! Scan when a target enters system, relax when they leave. You can live wherever you want, work wherever you want. Be bold. Be brave. Be informed.




CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary