EVE General Discussion

First off, I've managed to get this far in the thread without calling anyone an idiot or moron, I'd appreciate if you kept your comments respectful and constructive. Demeaning other players only undermines your credibility, and you make some valid arguments despite your rude tone.

I absolutely support your campaign to get mining mechanics changed. Obviously shooting rocks is boring, no one is arguing with that. As for sucking on the "sandbox" straw, well, its unfortunate you disagree with the fundamental game design principal. CCP could have programmed Concord to prevent such a thing from ever happening - that is not their vision. The game developers are quite tolerant of this kind of gameplay, it is not considered griefing in any way. Highsec is very specifically and intentionally designed to be mostly safe, not 100% safe. CCP wants risk to exist at all levels of the game, even if you dont.

Now just because you disagree with the mechanics, doesnt mean you should be exempt from them in the meantime, and that everyone else should just arbitrarily leave you alone. You are taking out our frustration on other players, instead of the developers. This is classic "Don't hate the player, hate the game".

Here's an example from my own personal experience - I am heavily involved with the Faction Warfare scene, which has its own whole host of mechanics problems. For the last couple of months, Pandemic Legion has withdrawn from nullsec, and resides in our warzone, and have dropped a massive hammer on anything they want to see in their killmails.

I personally believe that supercaps and Titans should not be allowed in lowsec. I think their presence there is unnecessary, and hampers the gameplay designed to take place there. Yes, its totally cheeseball to drop supercaps onto small battlecruiser gangs for the lulz. Also, their presence in Amamake has put a damper on the usual Battleship fleets we used to fight each other with back in the day. I've asked CCP to consider this fix, knowing its unlikely to happen anyways, but at least I've spoken my viewpoint.

Now, I have two choice from how to respond in the meantime - I can spend my day cursing Pandemic Legion, calling them morons, exhibiting poor sportsmanship, and demonstrating a refusal to adapt to a threat I know I cannot eliminate myself.

Or, I can adapt along with the rest of my corpmates. We've chosen to have fun in a different way now, rather than complain endlessly or refuse to have fun at all. We've modified our gang work, focusing specifically on hit and run tactics, and specifically fit ships that can evade capital fire, while engaging the smaller gangs we catch Pandemic Legion in as they warp about. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose, but its a helluvalot more fun than simply beating our fists against a wall and screaming about how unfair Pandemic Legion is, and begging them to leave what is their rightful homeland, simply because it inconveniences us and the larger fleets we used to enjoy. No one is forcing us to live and fight here, we do it because we like it. I only hope you live and work in highsec because you like it too.

This whole thread, which started as a mechanics lesson, has ended up being about all player attitude and sportsmanship. Clearly there are those (Like Ana Tyr) who have chosed to adapt their gameplay, despite the drawbacks you rightfully point out about mining. They are out having fun, while you sit here and complain.

I encourage you, and other disgruntled miners, to keep asking CCP to change mining, and to change concord AI if you so wish. I genuinely wish that you are successful in making mining a dynamic, engaging fun activity in and of itself. But I also encourage you to not let an enemy you can avoid keep you from having fun. Because FUN is the only measure of whether you are truly succeeding or failing, in a game like EvE.

The moronic likeness is the blind acceptance of the mechanic. The "victim is at fault" is moronic. Half the techniques for evasion are moronic. Half the posts waxing lyrical about it being "neccessary" for Eve play is moronic.


By making appeasment posts mitigating risk? This is an acceptance of the current game mechanic, not support for change.


The "frustration" is aimed at those that take advantage of a bad mechanic and those that blindly accept it as OK. You're defending your OP, which does have some valid points. I'm attacking the neccessity to even make the post.


First you need to accept that of the 1500+ kills by G**ns, NOT ONE OF THEM employed the tactics as discussed. NONE. So either you are exceedlingly brilliant to have been the first to think of it or all 1500+ pilots are completely and utterly stupid.

Add to this the Hulkageddon victims over the last few years and that is a LOT of very stupid players.

My beef is your belittling tone (demeaning?) towards miners as though every single one of them is stupid and has no idea how to play the game - EXCEPT for you.

This acceptance of the status quo on ganking as being THE FAULT of the miners is just plain wrong.

People just want to be able to run their bots or afk mine 3-4 accounts at a time without any repercussions.

1. Learn how to tank an orca
2. Mine with orca
3. Store hulk in orca
4. Warp pod away
5. ???
6. Profit!

You've overlooked that someone like G**ns have trillions of isk to throw at the campaign.

The average target probably has a few hundred million.

May as well use a BB gun to stop a Minuteman.

Any Hulk anywhere is gankable. It's just a matter of correct tactics and the correct number of ships.

All you can do is make sure you're not the easiest target in the belt or solar system.

Reminds me of that joke with the 2 blokes in Africa trying to get away from a lion.

Bloke #1 stops to put running shoes on.

Bloke #2: "You can't outrun the lion!"

Bloke #1: "I don't need to outrun the lion. I only need to outrun you."

yes, remove CONCORD so the miner can fight back

While I do not dought your capabilities as gankers in the slightest, I don't think your average ganker can punch through 300K EHP before concord rears its ugly face.

Ganking Engineering 101:

EHP/X = N

EHP = 300 000 (HP)
X = Average ganker damage before Concord (HP damage/ganker)
N= Number of average gankers needed (ganker)

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/shipgroup/Industrial%20Command%20Ship

So much for that