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how to put isk to use
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Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-07-19 22:09:50 UTC
Im a new player. Mined my way to 2bil isk and then didnt want it sitting around. Wasnt sure best way to put it to use but saw plex price history is a wave and currently rising so bought a few figuring in a month or 3 i can probably sell them for more than i paid. Or use it if needed.

I didnt put buy orders because didnt want to wait for someone to fill the order since the price is rising.

Any tips on best way to do this. Or somethig else i should do to put my isk to use?
Beryl Temper
F1 Academy
Worst Alliance Ever
#2 - 2013-07-19 22:29:45 UTC
2bil is nothing these days. You could easily triple that in a few months, with next to zero time spent.
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#3 - 2013-07-19 23:16:52 UTC
Swing trading is a viable option for the plex market and some others. Upper end implant market can be something to look into if you like that style of trading.

For swing trading, look at the historical price movement and identify the price point on both the buy and sell side that occur often enough for the timeframe you set for yourself. Place bids, wait, get filled, setup sells, sell and repeat.

The weakness to this strategy will be turnover and being caught in a trending market. You can also be sitting on inventories for months, so be prepared. The margin trading skill will be your friend as this will allow you to bid on more items as the probability with being filled on a large majority if your orders will be low.

It is not for everyone as it is not a consistent source of cashflow.

Good Luck
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-07-20 00:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
Beryl Temper wrote:
2bil is nothing these days. You could easily triple that in a few months, with next to zero time spent.


whats your point in telling me its next to nothing? did I indicate in my OP that i thought my newbself just won EVE? The rest of your post was just as useless. how pitiful ur epeen needed stroking because i posted what isk im working with

Quote:
Swing trading is a viable option for the plex market and some others. Upper end implant market can be something to look into if you like that style of trading.

For swing trading, look at the historical price movement and identify the price point on both the buy and sell side that occur often enough for the timeframe you set for yourself. Place bids, wait, get filled, setup sells, sell and repeat.

The weakness to this strategy will be turnover and being caught in a trending market. You can also be sitting on inventories for months, so be prepared. The margin trading skill will be your friend as this will allow you to bid on more items as the probability with being filled on a large majority if your orders will be low.

It is not for everyone as it is not a consistent source of cashflow


so far thats what i been doing as it doesnt take me away from my silly miner isk flow. But its what i know for now. Ill look at high end implants. Any other recomendations?
joffre lannister
ARAZ Engineering
#5 - 2013-07-20 01:39:30 UTC
Collatoralized bonds might be good for you at a long term period. If youre wanting fast cash try trading, like drugs and female exotic dancers.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-07-20 13:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciyrine
what are exotic dancers for?

Who offers bonds? like the posts in the forum where people ask for 5bil isk and promise to pay 2% but no way to enforce or recoup my money?
RAW23
#7 - 2013-07-20 13:54:33 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:


Who offers bonds? like the posts in the forum where people ask for 5bil isk and promise to pay 2% but no way to enforce or recoup my money?


Actually, the 2% bonds are normally fully collateralised.

That aside, don't waste your time on bonds if you only have two bil. The big question is how much/little time you want to put in. If you don't mind grinding for a week you could probably double that by active market trading. I would advise staying away from things like long term swing trading at the moment as the returns are not secure and not huge while the risks are significant and you don't want to blow your pot on one misplaced bet. Try some more active approaches in the short term until you have a slightly bigger pot (ideally c. 10bil) and then you can take a diversified approach to longer term investments that will provide some insulation from risk.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-07-20 14:01:17 UTC
i havent wrapped my brain about how to earn 2 bil in a couple of billion active trading. I dont know how to find something thats being sold for too low and find a place where its being bought really high.

I have a badger for hauling do you need a freighter to make 2bil in that time period?
joffre lannister
ARAZ Engineering
#9 - 2013-07-20 15:13:42 UTC
You could always negotiate higher than 2% in interested..
Dunka Panala
Iskender Kebap Corp
#10 - 2013-07-20 16:37:27 UTC
If you're new to EVE you shoould start running missions for one of the major Hubstation holder corps to cut down market fees. Furthermore you should train your char for produktion / trading. This will probably take 1 month in skilltime if you can't afford buying a toon from the Character Bazaar. Once you've succeded in accomplishing these goals you're ready to start trading efficently.

Start with short term trading, which means buying goods and selling them in a short timeframe. Try utilizing the buy order function, otherwise your margin isn't really existent. IF you find a good with a big spread betwen buy/sell order you can start trading like I discribed above. By producing goods you can further increase your margins.

When you've gathered more ISK you can start and invest into Long Term Trading goods, e.g. Expansion Speculations. Those are very profitable but most probably you will sit on your goods for months. The risk involved in this type of Trading is also much higher.

All other trading mechanisms require at least some understanding of the price histroy ingame.
Principally youre searching for volatile goods with a high Quantity in volume.

Examples? Here we go :

Example 1
Do not touch this! This one is dead.

Example 2
This one is interesting! Lots of rumours about buffs are out and the graph is looking alive, which means "lots of waves" and a high volume.


Next Example is about when buying goods :

Example 3

One nice simple tool to decide when to invest into a good is build into EVE client; The donchian Channel is simply spoken an indicator of lowest sell and highest bid orders. So if the area of the donchian channel is increasing, either the good will get cheaper or more expensive.Also if the 5d Avrg is piercing through the 20d moving average from below, this is also an indicator for an item getting more expensive. Sell when the 5d is piercing through from above.
This is all known real world market theory so if you wanna get good at trading ingame you should stick to your local bookdealer and listen to rumours concerning EVE
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#11 - 2013-07-20 16:45:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
Dunka Panala wrote:
If you're new to EVE you shoould start running missions for one of the major Hubstation holder corps to cut down market fees. Furthermore you should train your char for produktion / trading. This will probably take 1 month in skilltime if you can't afford buying a toon from the Character Bazaar. Once you've succeded in accomplishing these goals you're ready to start trading efficently.

Start with short term trading, which means buying goods and selling them in a short timeframe. Try utilizing the buy order function, otherwise your margin isn't really existent. IF you find a good with a big spread betwen buy/sell order you can start trading like I discribed above. By producing goods you can further increase your margins.

When you've gathered more ISK you can start and invest into Long Term Trading goods, e.g. Expansion Speculations. Those are very profitable but most probably you will sit on your goods for months. The risk involved in this type of Trading is also much higher.

All other trading mechanisms require at least some understanding of the price histroy ingame.
Principally youre searching for volatile goods with a high Quantity in volume.

Examples? Here we go :

Example 1
Do not touch this! This one is dead.

Example 2
This one is interesting! Lots of rumours about buffs are out and the graph is looking alive, which means "lots of waves" and a high volume.


Next Example is about when buying goods :

Example 3

One nice simple tool to decide when to invest into a good is build into EVE client; The donchian Channel is simply spoken an indicator of lowest sell and highest bid orders. So if the area of the donchian channel is increasing, either the good will get cheaper or more expensive.Also if the 5d Avrg is piercing through the 20d moving average from below, this is also an indicator for an item getting more expensive. Sell when the 5d is piercing through from above.
This is all known real world market theory so if you wanna get good at trading ingame you should stick to your local bookdealer and listen to rumours concerning EVE



Example 1 is incorrect.

Actual Graph is what it actually looks like

The Donchian has been borked by someone buying an item from themselves, just for the exact purpose of messing up the graph.

All I need to do to completely mess up the graph for donchian users is to buy 1 unit of Trit from myself for 10m, and sell one unit to myself for 0.01isk

Personally, I dont use the graph, I use the table, its faster and easier, and you can copy/paste it to excel and plot it yourself.

Also, the average price is less borked by things such as the one which messed up that original graph

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Dunka Panala
Iskender Kebap Corp
#12 - 2013-07-20 16:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dunka Panala
Rhivre wrote:


Example 1 is incorrect.

Actual Graph is what it actually looks like

The Donchian has been borked by someone buying an item from themselves, just for the exact purpose of messing up the graph.

All I need to do to completely mess up the graph for donchian users is to buy 1 unit of Trit from myself for 10m, and sell one unit to myself for 0.01isk

Personally, I dont use the graph, I use the table, its faster and easier, and you can copy/paste it to excel and plot it yourself.

Also, the average price is less borked by things such as the one which messed up that original graph


My first example was just a random item to show a graph with nearly to no movement at all. But you're right it's in a downtrend by now.

My intention was to show the very basic mechanism on how to read the market with the tools EVE is providing.
Donchian donkeys manipulating the graph are really annoying. I'm using the table for those items myself.
If you are taking EVE serious you relly should do like Rhivre suggested and adjust the Data with excel. You can plot a graph without all the outlier and it's a simple but really powerful tool. Learning excel will earn you ISK .
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#13 - 2013-07-20 19:07:18 UTC
@op. You should be wary of putting money into 250mm rails. Demand has not increased(yet), only the price. Those buys have a very good chance of being wiped tomorrow as its Sunday, and the price will continue to drop once the inventor legion arrives and spam gouges themselves into oblivion. That's when you invest. Or...you can place your bet on the guy working the market to continue buying, but considering he bought in so low, that sounds very risky.

Also you don't need to bother hauling stuff around, check out http://red-frog.org/jumps.php quick, cheap, easy and you can spend your time doing more productive things than hauling.
Rockenator
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-07-20 20:50:01 UTC
If I have the skill, is it wise to put in buy orders for a region or actually 10 jumps currently, assuming the goods will need to be picked up and brought to the trade hub eventually?
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-07-20 22:01:13 UTC
Dunka Panala wrote:
Rhivre wrote:


Example 1 is incorrect.

Actual Graph is what it actually looks like

The Donchian has been borked by someone buying an item from themselves, just for the exact purpose of messing up the graph.

All I need to do to completely mess up the graph for donchian users is to buy 1 unit of Trit from myself for 10m, and sell one unit to myself for 0.01isk

Personally, I dont use the graph, I use the table, its faster and easier, and you can copy/paste it to excel and plot it yourself.

Also, the average price is less borked by things such as the one which messed up that original graph


My first example was just a random item to show a graph with nearly to no movement at all. But you're right it's in a downtrend by now.

My intention was to show the very basic mechanism on how to read the market with the tools EVE is providing.
Donchian donkeys manipulating the graph are really annoying. I'm using the table for those items myself.
If you are taking EVE serious you relly should do like Rhivre suggested and adjust the Data with excel. You can plot a graph without all the outlier and it's a simple but really powerful tool. Learning excel will earn you ISK .


how do you use excel to remove outliers? how do you determine when someones messing with the market?

If you guys arent using the graph but the table instead....what table?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#16 - 2013-07-20 22:13:00 UTC
Learn about support and trends and region trade until it becomes unmanageable. You will have figured out what to do next by then.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-07-20 22:38:30 UTC
where do i start to learn about those things?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#18 - 2013-07-20 22:44:53 UTC
Google "what is market support and resistance"

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ciyrine
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-07-20 22:58:52 UTC
ok i understand support/resistance in the market whats next?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#20 - 2013-07-20 23:24:53 UTC
Ciyrine wrote:
ok i understand support/resistance in the market whats next?


Current example: 425mm Railgun II. Look at the 1 year price history. Note support at around 4.25m. Now selling at 3.9m. Historically, you could judge that this will increase after the summer lull.

Just an example and not a recommendation because there are other factors involved.

For shorter term trading, check for price differences between regions (hint =ImportXML) and capitalise on them. Just be cautious of buying at historical resistance unless there's a good reason to.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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