Ships & Modules

Now were talking. Someone with experience who knows whats what. I been saying since the beginning i dont know the ins and outs of why smartbombs, neuts are used. I just know those + mwd was used by carrier pilots. I was keeping the ball rolling in thos discussion until some vet found this thread and explained it all

As for the carrier ratting isk aspect. Are u saying ratting carriers dont make 300mil/hr? Or are u saying ishtar makes the same? How can it make the same as sentry carrier applying near perfect instant long range 1800dps? How long it tales to replace the carrier depends how often u need to replace it. If its once a month and it makes tons more isk/hr than it can be worth it. I dont know the balance of the spread of risk/reward on this but i do know that people do rat in carriers without losing them months on end if they are to be believed

What happens at 3-5km undocking that gets u killed? I picture some frig points u. But how did they know to wait for u? Or is it just dumb luck hes docking/undocking at same time as u has the right module and jumps on the chance to get the kill?

Yes carrier ratting can make good isk running certain sites. Its more like 200m /hr. Ishtars make 100m/hr

I am saying you can make isk as easily in a smaller easier to fly ship that costs less. Risk vs Reward wise some people wont bother trying to find/catch an ishtar. They go out of their way to figure out where a carrier is in space.


The cloak is so you can warp to a safe spot and "Hide" your carrier.

Warping/ jumping/undocking a carrier and getting it stuck 3-5km off being able to dock basically means once webbed and scrammed you are burning back at like 5m/s. Which will get you killed.

Your ships velocity is a vector that is comprised of a direction and a magnitude (your speed). All that is being said is that the direction of the velocity vector is not represented by the visual orientation of the ship. Being at a standstill is unique because a vector with no magnitude also has no direction. If you are moving and attempt to warp your ship must take time to accelerate so that its velocity vector matches the direction of your warp target with a magnitude of 75% of your ships max speed.

This is why it takes so long for slow bulky ships like freighters to warp from a station to a gate, even if it looks like you are already nearly aligned to the gate from exiting the station. You are ejected from the station at considerable speed and it takes time to cancel out the components of that velocity vector that are not directed at the gate. After you jump your speed is at zero and so entering warp to the next gate will always take the same time to initiate (barring external influences).

I'm getting a clearer picture now. I was already aware that the graphic had little to do with warping mechanics and that direction (calculated server side) DOES matter.

So now we've established that the MWD is in fact a viable tactic on making a carrier enter warp more quickly, let's focus on the other factors that make ratting in a carrier not worth it.

Yes but it's only worth it if you have everything set up like I mentioned earlier:

cyno-jammed system in blue space with POS/station to dock at.

OR

cyno alt

Neither of which Ciyrine has taken into account.

Lets be perfectly clear: The only thing that will keep your ratting/plexing carrier alive is not getting caught in the first place. The moment you are tackled by anything, you have seriously screwed up. Now the question becomes how much do you want to prepare for that eventuality, when doing so will reduce your ratting/plexing efficiency.

1. Drone Control Unit - There is a reason no one uses drone control units in PvP, they are not as good as almost anything else you would put there. When you see one on a carrier, you know they were PVEing. 10 warriors instead of 9, is unlikely to save you.

2. Neuts - Having done my share of carrier tackling in a ceptor, Neuts are by far your greatest threat. Contrary to the commentary above, the point of the neut is not to cap out the point, but to cap out the prop mod, which is much harder to keep running under heavy neut pressure. While a flight of warriors can catch a frig going 4-5km/s, they do lousy damage, your talking at least a minute, probably several to kill it. When you neut it out and its going 500m/s, it will die very quickly. A good faction neut will either outrange the point on any frig, or in the case of a MAX skilled ceptor, give them almost no room to work with.

3. Smartbombs - As mentioned, mostly for killing bubbles. As not mentioned, if a dictor pilot manages to bubble your carrier, there are exactly 2 ways you are getting out alive, either your reinforcements arrive, or the dictor pilot screws up. A good dictor pilot should be able to hold down a super/titan without assistance, a titan with an officer smart bomb is going to have a MUCH larger aoe then your carrier. That said, many dictor pilots will commit errors, and it is possible your smartbomb could save you.

4. Warp core stabs - Sucks for your ratting, but most tackle wont have more then 1-2 pts of disruption, and getting tackle on a carrier only to have it moonwalk out with a load of stabs is REALLY annoying. No help against dictors, and the pissed off tackler is likely to show up again with a ton of scrams.

Just as a quick note on the warping, carriers and larger regularly warp from a jump in with the model being pretty far out of line, even without the help of webs.

now your just embarrassing yourself. Im a 2 month newb and I knew

1) how warping works from 0m/s
2) the MWD for carriers
3) that carriers use neuts, smartbombs. I knew that i didnt have the exact details of how/why they use them but I knew enough to ASK how they work and now i have my answers
4) that carriers are the premier ratting isk/hr and that people ACTUALLY do it

you on the the other hand knew nothing about those things or thought incorrectly (that carrier ratting isnt worth it or too risky and wrong about warping). Which is why your at your best when your useless telling newb players to get better and at your worst when giving half wrong info.

What do you think are the chances that you know about cyno alts but i have never heard that their useful or that they take 6 days to train into. It will be better for you if you stop acting like your an informed player and join my newb side of the fence and watch the big boys play. Maybe theyll ask you to join them when your ready.

When the time comes. I will be in an alliance that holds SOV space that i can rat in and I will have an alt, I will make tons of isk in relative safety and my carrier wont die. You can never be completely safe because any blue could go awox. But the isk you generate in a carrier without any risk of tank problems will make up for the one time in my eve career i get awoxed. When i do lose my carrier i will enjoy the adrenaline from the loss because the real loss in eve is why i play it as opposed to another mmo. Dont worry your pretty little head about all those scary/difficult details. Continue pvp in your frig and believing your super pro

all my understanding is from 2nd hand info such as yours so Im doing my best but...

1) people rat in carriers in big alliances and the corp members dont see them as increasing everyones danger. perhaps carrier ratting is bad for small corps, i dont know

2) there is a big isk/hr difference between ishtar and carriers(3-500m/hr but lets go with just 3). Carriers are not that expensive even to my newb perception. In 2 months of making crap money if i bought and lost one i wouldnt rage quit. How much isk/hr does an ishtar make? 150? so maybe 20hrs of semi afk ratting in a carrier before youve paid off the potential loss of the carrier and then its pure profit.

but the carrier actually opens up even more isk possibility for me than just the difference in isk/hr that carrier vs ishtar can make. I currently ice mine because i can watch tv and pay attention to family. this allows me to mine for 6 hrs a day. If I had to pay attention to what i was doing id have maybe 1 or 2 hrs a day to play eve.

the carrier is like the highest level of ice mining to me. I can do it for many more hours a day because all i need to do is watch local/corp intel and otherwise can not be a crappy husband/father. 6hrs a day semi afk x 300 mil/hr is way better than 2hrs a day x 150mil/hr

3) carrier ratting can actually be more relaxing than ishtar. Other than watching local/corp intel you dont have to worry about the rat threat to your ship.

4) If i get dropped in a carrier then i probably made a mistake or someone awoxed. When i lose my carrier the gankers are free to laugh to their hearts content. Hell the corp can laugh if they want too. In both cases i wont be bothered. they had fun...and even i had fun losing the carrier. Game on. If your worried about being laughed at for losing a carrier then that would certainly be a reason not to do it for you.

as for wormholes. Carriers have to be built inside wormholes right?

I also knew all of that apart from the MWD on the carrier, there is nothing on google to find that info actually apart from that one thread you started.

Carriers can use neuts yes, but is it worth it? Not really. that inty that just tackled you has a fleet already in warp to blow you up and no amount of neuting is gonig to save you

Same thing with the smartbomb, oh you killed the interdiction probe? Good for you, the dictor still has point on you and fleet is coming.

Carrier is a premier way to get yourself an embarrassing lossmail, as so many people have already told you: doing it in a subcap earns you slightly less isk/hour at a heavily reduced risk. If you had any idea how economy works you will be interested in opportunity costs rather than the raw isk/hour you can theoretically make.

I will not be lumped on the same side of the fence as you, I don't dream up ridiculous tactics like solo widow and rapid light missile rattlesnakes for small gang pvp.

"Continue pvp in your frig and believing your super pro"

Bigger is better right?

All the most pro players in this game all fly titans, am I right guys?