These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Is the guessing of a password on Eveboard illegal?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
#181 - 2013-07-19 22:23:13 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Entity wrote:
This reminds me of how I guessed the password of a secure container in space once. it was "8888" or something like that. Got 10 billion worth of what was apparently a sweatshop's loot. (The guys were stashing it in containers so as to guard their assets against the inevitable bans).

Anyway, gaining access to someone elses account on a computer system might be illegal, but even so, this falls outside CCP's jurisdiction anyway. Case closed.




I think hacking a container in a game, or even corp theft for that matter all done in game, is perfectly legal.

It's when you are out of the game, at a browser or terminal, and crack into an account, that things get dicey.


But like i said before, it all depends on who you are (at least in my country). If you are with the "in" crowd you can get caught hacking phones and have your own show on CNN still or run an entire news network. If you are not in the "in crowd" or perhaps have publicly gone against it, then even the hacking of a secure container might land you in trouble. At the least, even if a judge throws it out later, the "message" is sent by the SWAT raid you get regardless of the crime or the charge.



My point still stands. It's out of CCP's hands in any case. They wouldn't be touching this one with a 6ft barge pole. 3rd party site hacks and crimes are not their legal burden and they would be insane to get involved.

╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

Got Item?
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#182 - 2013-07-19 22:30:54 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Wow, this thread is almost 10 pages and full of internet lawyers.


Ban OP, gas thread, and nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure to get all the internet lawyers.



The difference between you and a real eve player, you are just doing it for the forum fame, a real eve player gets banned and comes back that much smarter, or at least half as dumb.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2013-07-19 22:36:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuttomenui II
Thorn Galen wrote:
Consider this.

Dude has a bunch of keys.
He goes around to random houses to see which key will fit a lock.
Eventually he finds one which opens a door.

Just because the key fits the door does not make his action legal, it's still a crime.

Likewise, nor should such an action as discussed here be condoned. Same legal principles apply.
There's nothing "meta' about it, it is illegal, plain and simple.

o7


This actually works on cars. Someone was at a national park in the USA and someone else with the same type car told them there was a chance their keys would work being they are from different parts of the country and it did. I guess it's to much effort to make unique keys for all cars so they have sets that use the same key and just separate them by distance when they send them out to dealerships.

Edit: Hmm Forgot to mention the first car owner had locked their keys in their car.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#184 - 2013-07-19 22:38:19 UTC
If this was "meta gaming", I wonder: Why are so many PL here trying hard?

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance
Kat Ayclism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2013-07-20 00:05:16 UTC
Zaxix wrote:
Kat Ayclism wrote:
Zaxix wrote:
Any intentional access to obtain information to the detriment of the account holder should be considered unauthorized."

I'm no big city lawyer but I believe you just soiled yer britches.

Man let's go comparing this to all kindsa ****, rather than facing the reality that we lack social skills and need to find a healthy hobby that doesn't permanently alienate us from people that might otherwise enjoy our company if only we'd step from the dark corners of our dingy, cheeto-hazed, redbull-can-filled, vaugely sperm-smelling rooms from which we wile away the hours furiously slapping out long diatribes about internet space pixels and the surrounding statutory and legal precedents.

You're quoting me, quoting the lawyer who writes that blog. The statement is his, not mine. As he is an actual lawyer and you are a cheeto-eating, redbull-drinking, Onanistic recluse, I'm going with his opinion over yours.

IT DOESN'T COUNT CAUSE I DIDN'T READ THE SOURCE MATERIAL I WAS USING TO BACK MY STATEMENT

lmao, good one duder. Perhaps you should read that bolded part. Here I'll italics and underline it and put some tildes around it too.

Zaxix wrote:
Any intentional access to obtain information to the~~~~~detriment of the account holder~~~~~ should be considered unauthorized."
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#186 - 2013-07-20 01:38:10 UTC
man i'm glad so many of you licensed, practicing attorneys are sharing your opinions itt

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#187 - 2013-07-20 01:44:38 UTC
would any of you licensed, practicing attorneys like to defend rocket in court? he could certainly use your legal expertise now that he was arrested for guessing an eveboard password

lol

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kiki Paige
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2013-07-20 02:45:00 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#189 - 2013-07-20 03:47:59 UTC
Who cares, GAZ THREAD !!!

Goooo gooo goo guys !!

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#190 - 2013-07-20 04:25:19 UTC
The idea of fines or jail time for internet space ship games is lolz. Personally I would be too embarrased to explain to the police how I was a dumb ass nerd on an MMO and just got my space pixles I didn't really own (they are the intellectual property of CCP) blown up. Then explain why the "crime" mattered by teaching them how to reverse value PLEX. Then explain that the perpetrator of the "crime" one-shot guessed your password of 1234 for a link that shows your character training and skills. I think in most police stations you would be either asked to leave if they were busy or held for psychiatric evaluations if they were bored.
Marissia Trunball
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2013-07-20 04:28:00 UTC
Aylanaa wrote:
So this RoCkEt X guessed Mino IV's password on Eveboard, which allowed him to figure out when Mino IV would log his titan chararcter on enabling RoCkEt X to kill said titan. The story is here http://themittani.com/news/legion-alts-downs-avatar-low-sec, and here http://pastebin.com/u9XjXtAa Too me it seems in the grey area just curious on other people's thoughts.


It's pretty common that anything that is intended to be private on the Internet (read behind a password and unavailable to you through legitimate channels), constitutes some form of crime (likely computer fraud here in Canada) So he might be open to some actual legal action, if they have the $$ to pursue it (I would be so amused by a legal cash settlement for money equivalent to the ISK and time lost).

That said, EVE's API terms of service seem to be pretty clear - that they are not responsible for how 3rd party services use your API key and this is most definitely a problem of the third party service (it's really not that difficult to lock the account for 24 hours [and let you reset via email] if you fail password so many times, and to notify you of recent logins). Plus, really, 1234 as a password????
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#192 - 2013-07-20 07:17:39 UTC
LolLegal implicationsLol

  • Nothing or real world value was lost. All that happened is a database adjustment on CCP's servers.
  • API output (skill sheet) was public information as soon as posted, anywhere...
  • Eveboard password is of no consequence. No actual private information or account was breached.


    • Also consider that any information "stolen" does not belong to any real world person but rather to CCP. So you have now arrived back at square one. Should we go around again?
    Arduemont
    Rotten Legion
    #193 - 2013-07-20 10:33:49 UTC
    Maybe they should have had a better password.

    "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
    Nuglord
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #194 - 2013-07-20 11:22:56 UTC
    Obviously not.

    Titan pilot put himself at risk by doing what he did. There are a dozen solutions that literally would take two seconds to do that would have prevented, or at the very least delayed the gank.

    The most obvious is to not set your eveboard password to 1234 if you're regularly logging your titan pilot on to update skills outside a POS bubble.

    As far as I know Eveboard claims no guarantee of protection due to weak passwords. If you're putting your character's API in such a public place, you need to realize that if it puts you at risk in very specific situations (which I'm sure this pilot knew very well logging that character in did in fact put him at risk) and act accordingly. This guy ignored basic common sense and it caught up with him.
    Brewlar Kuvakei
    Adeptio Gloriae
    #195 - 2013-07-20 11:24:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei
    Or he could have just added him as a watch list contact on eve....

    Edit Or haha he needed to know when the skill Q updated so he was not wasting his life.
    Brewlar Kuvakei
    Adeptio Gloriae
    #196 - 2013-07-20 11:34:22 UTC
    Regardless of what he spied on no rules within CCP or eve online were broken so any action by them would be wrong. If that guy feels he was hacked in RL somehow he should probably report it to the police. In which case he will most likely be laughed at by a whole police station when he explains ''my internet spaceship score board got snooped on and now my internet space ship is dead. I want you to call interpol and perform a cross border operation to get that filthy spaceship attacker''.
    GreenSeed
    #197 - 2013-07-20 11:38:24 UTC
    inb4 ppl will getting arrested for "guessing" POS shield passwords...
    Schalac
    Apocalypse Reign
    #198 - 2013-07-20 11:50:06 UTC
    I will happily represent rocket in court for a small fee of $500 an hour or 3 titan kills per week. I have a long distinguished career as a forum troll and I have read just about every internet defense that has ever been posted. I am also well spoken and good looking, this plays well with the jury. When you get arrested for doing nothing illegal, look to Schalac to get you a fair and decent trial.

    SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN!! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schalac
    RAW23
    #199 - 2013-07-20 16:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: RAW23
    Not sure where the individual lives but his actions seem to be (IANAL) illegal under UK law (which formed the model for Irish and Canadian legislation on the issue). Section 1 of the Computer Misuse Act 1990 with the Police and Justice Act 2006 amendments reads:

    Quote:

    1 Unauthorised access to computer material.

    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if—
    (a)he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer [F1, or to enable any such access to be secured]F1 ;
    (b)the access he intends to secure [F2, or to enable to be secured,]F2 is unauthorised; and
    (c)he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.

    (2)The intent a person has to have to commit an offence under this section need not be directed at—
    (a)any particular program or data;
    (b)a program or data of any particular kind; or
    (c)a program or data held in any particular computer.

    [F3(3)A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable—
    (a)on summary conviction in England and Wales, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both;
    (b)on summary conviction in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or to both;
    (c)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to a fine or to both.]


    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/18/section/1

    Any deliberate attempt to secure unauthorised access to "any program or data held in any computer" is an offence. The law is explicit that the type of program or data or the fact that it is held on any particular computer is irrelevant.

    I can't see the police actually doing anything in a case like this, though. It seems to be an offence of the same seriousness as doing 80mph on the motorway.

    Incidentally, the case that led to the 1990 legislation involved hackers exploiting a password that was 1234. They were found guilty but then cleared on appeal, leading to the need to create a new law specifically aimed at computers.

    Edit
    The Crown Prosecution Service sentencing guidelines list a bunch of things that should be taken into account as mitigating or aggravating factors and in the case of the present example it is pretty clear that all the mitigating boxes are ticked.

    http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/unauthorised_access_to_a_computer/

    Quote:

    Nature of the computer system accessed and the type of access obtained.
    Sensitive / confidential information obtained.
    Intention.
    Pre-planned.
    Sophisticated offence.
    Significant public or private fear or distress caused.

    There are two types of EVE player:

    those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
    Ace Uoweme
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #200 - 2013-07-20 19:35:21 UTC
    Lucius Exitius wrote:
    Except eveboard doesn't have accounts, you post your API key on it. Having a password doesn't make it an account, no different then password protecting an excel or word document, its not illegal. IT would be like saying reading this post is illegal, its here for all to see.


    It's a website, and all conditions that website owners have to abide to still applies (host illegal content on a website and see how much the website owner is responsible for!).

    Any site that uses EvE content is liable to the whims of CCP as it's covered by IP ownership laws. So even if Eveboard does nothing but relay API info from CCP, it can be held liable by CCP or a third party if it goes rogue (and yes, larger websites have insurance to cover the legal expenses, as it operates just like a brick and mortar business).

    _"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell