EVE General Discussion

Depends on whether or not they bill their game as being highly focused on it. You know, like EVE is.

But I was more attempting to satirize the tendency of carebears to do their level best to legislate any kind of emergent gameplay out of existence the moment it impacts them even seemingly negatively. You know, like can flipping, highsec ganking, bumping, cloaking, boomerang-ing, scamming of a dozen varieties, etc, etc.

Please note, that some of those actually have been removed due to QQ about their use. So the objection to people QQ'ing about the latest whine of the month, is quite legitimate. The carebears cry about everything eventually, it's just a matter of what they're crying about now. Today? It's cloaking.

I think you misunderstand. They won't up and quit, but supply will decrease across the board due to to increase in time taken to mine, refine and ship and due to the additional losses. You say make it yourself or hand it to other industrialists, where do you think their minerals come from? Null is the main source of all high end minerals. Most ships take at least a few high end minerals to build. High sec industrialists rely on the supply from null to produce those.

I marvel and how little you understand the industry processes. Let me just be clear. If null sec mining tanked, prices would rise, regardless of who manufactures it for you.

Tch, tch. At what point did I say prices wouldn't rise? To save you the trouble, I didn't. But a price hike in minerals causes an almost immediate deflationary move as well, btw.

But it's already been stated. Any exodus of miners, and that means whether they quit entirely or just slow it all down, will cause a short term price spike, yes, but it will even out fairly quickly. (likely before I even churn through my own resources and have to go look for more)

That's capitalism. If there is a price spike in minerals, people will pounce on it, overdraft the supply, and poof, prices normalize again.

But if you're saying that having to watch D-scan like pretty much everybody else will make nullsec mining slow to a crawl, then you clearly haven't lived in a wormhole. If such a thing could effect the market to that degree, wormhole mats would be absurdly expensive in comparison to their current price.

That's the thing that really puts the lie to the whole "Oh well people will get fed up and it will mess up the market" theory. It can be done. Wormhole players do it every single day. Why the nullsec miners shouldn't have to go to the trouble of looking at D-scan now and again... well, you tell me.

Then why all the complaints about the, and I quote "afk cloaker"?

Because it's not about the player, or whether he is afk or not, or what he might be flying.

It's about not being able to deal with any kind of uncertainty, with any kind of risk. No reds in local means no risk, period. You do not get to remove that from the game. "Not nobody, not no how!"

You don't need indy 5, you simply cycle belts. indy 3 is easily enough, but you can pull enough at indy 2. But the geat thing about renter space is other people rat and mine too, so keeping 2 systems and indy 3-4 is not an issue.

Having to get a combat ship out and wait for the cloaker to make a move, yes, that takes more time than a quick 2 jb trip to your other system. Anyway, I'm done with your assumptions that everything I say is wrong. You are an arrogant self obsessed moron that doesn't know the difference between opinion and fact. Feel free to dance around screaming "Victory!" as it affects me none.

I think you underestimate how much it would rise and for how long. it wouldn't be a simple case that other came down to mine and filled the gaps, more PvP ships would come down putting further strain on the miners.
WH minerals are junk as you either have to ship them raw, compress the ore in a rorq to ship or refine with a massive waste factor at a pos.

You don't seem to get that the main supply of the minerals would be affected. People wouldn't be able to just go "poof" and magic more minerals into Jita. It would be a long term cut in supply.

It's not cowardice to not risk your assets. It's stupid to risk them when you're not compelled to. Cowardice is running a system down by sitting AFK cloaked 23/7, knowing you can't be scanned out.

Saying that wormholes are safe because we can collapse the wormholes....

Yes we can do that, but that doesn't stop new ones from spawning. An incoming WH means there's an active player on the other side possibly with a fleet that is gonna evict us.

Oh and that too. You guys are so lucky with your stations and whatnots. When we get kicked out, we lose EVERYTHING in the wormhole that we can't log off in. Last time I was in the receiving end of an eviction was 3-4 bill in personal assets and ships alone, can't even begin to guess how much the corp lost.

And even if we manage to close all the wormholes (even the incoming ones), there's still the chance of a login-trap. (These guys are especially good at it http://themittani.com/features/blood-union-profile)

Yeapp.. We're completely safe because we can close the womrholes....

We use cloaks every single day. Our lifestyle depends on them. We know how the work and you would think that if they were overpowered, we'd know and be shouting to CCP about it?

All the fixes for AFK-cloaking seem to break the game for 99% of the users to "fix" the 1% who complain....
Wormholes and nullsec are similar in many ways. If one of them has a problem that the other one hasn't, why do you have to "fix" it by going for the things that are the same (cloaks) ? Logically thinking the problem lies in the stuff that's DIFFERENT in wormholes and nullsec, not the same. So what are the key differences? Local and cyno's/hotdrops? Why not try to fix the AFK-problem through those instead of breaking the game for other types of space.

Seriously though, my suggestion doesn't affect WH space. It purely targets the AFK and nothing more.

You only want the effort to go one way. That is the major hole in the "effort" argument.