EVE General Discussion

Derp, look at that! Emergent gameplay! CCP, nerf collapsing wormholes, it's not fair!

Or, we can all just play the damn game.

No, It wont do that.
Probes launch, everyone can see them on d-scan (maybe even on overview, who knows) anyway, so the cloaker knows to move grid.
If he does, the probes will simply say "No results found" once the 10, 15 or however many minutes time the probes take to finish scanning. If any cloaker hasn't warped then the results will show a sig, but no shiptype or name. Warping to it will knock out the cloakers cloak and warp you on grid.
So all it will tell you is AFK cloakers or nothing. And if you cancel the scan or leave system/dock/get destroyed then your probes explode in space.

Leave our sodding wormhole space alone. We manage without local, and without knowing if cloaked players are there just fine.

Want to know why?

We're not risk averse. We made our decisions, we understand what they entail, we deal with that.

Something the anti-cloak brigade absolutely refuse to do. Every. Single. Time.


And though I've repeated this many times on the forums, I'll say it again: Discussing "AFK" cloakers is dishonest. As far as residents are concerned, as far as the game itself is concerned, there is absolutely zero difference between someone who is truly afk, and someone who is merely sitting looking at the screen waiting until a certain time before doing something.

Funny how every single idea EVER posed to combat the oxymoron that is the "AFK threat" is a massive nerf to that second type of player: The active cloaker. Every last one of them. They punish active players just as much - or even MORE so, when it comes to fuel, cap, etc ideas - as they do "AFK" players. They also strangely enough have the effect of massively reducing (or outright removing) uncertainty and risk to PVEing residents. Funny that, isn't it?

It is also (rather deliberately, I believe) misleading to claim cloakers are "100% safe/risk free".

They had to get to the system in the first place. Why not make it difficult for them to do this? You have the home field advantage if it is "your" system - make it harder to traverse. Bubbles, camps, etc. If you don't do this and they can get into your system unopposed that is your fault.

If they are looking for things (whether thats hunting targets, observing enemies, or even just doing exploration) they have to move around - warping to and from gates, pos, stations, etc. If they're doing this, set traps for them - again, bubbles and camps, drones and junk to decloak them, etc. If you don't do this and they can move around completely freely then it is again your fault.

If they ever actually try to do anything they have to decloak, at which point they become vulnerable, and cloaked ships have baked in weaknesses to balance out their cloaking ability - so exploit them. Bait them and kill them. Or at least set up your own ships such that they have some ability to escape or fend off someone. If you minmax for PVE, don't pay attention and put yourself in an extremely weak position that is, you guessed it, your fault.

You may not be able to find their ships while they're cloaked, but they cannot do anything to you in that state either. You CAN play smart while they're in that state and trick, catch or entirely avoid them. It is not a problem with the game if you refuse to take advantage of the dozens of options you have, it's a problem with you.

Did you read my previous post? The idea I present is geared to avoid affecting active cloakers and to have no effect on null.

Speaking of effort, what about some effort being needed to reduce the industry rating of a system. At the moment it seems all you need to do is pay someone red to AFK cloak there.

If you're going to invoke "effort", why don't you focus on that instead of on the idiotic bubble/camp, which ties up large numbers of players for days on end with no reward whatsoever because... infinite cloak...

Someone sitting in system does not reduce the industry rating of a system. Bad cowardly players who refuse to do anything at all as a result are what reduce the industry rating of a system. CCP can't patch cowardice

All they would have to do is change grid, nothing more. Like you said yourself that uncertainty exists because of not just infinite cloak but the fact that local exists in null. I see this as a good way to resolve the issue with minimal external impact.

I'm a big fan of risk versus reward. While I like what you've wrote here, I tend to believe any vacancies left by an exodus of miners would be filled by others seeing a sudden fiscal advantage for taking up the profession. And then slowly the hole would fill and prices would return to normal. And the prices and players staying in the profession would constantly teeter between the balance of risk vs. reward, as prices drop less players will do it which will drive supply down and demand up, raising prices and the cycle will repeat.

Also I think the really big alliances will be sure to pounce on any market fluctuations and have pilots willing to rededicate themselves to take advantage of it.

Grr Goons.

Yeah, I can't say I'd be against a mineral price rise. I might even dig out my old miners if that were to happen. But still I think the sheer volume of it would make it difficult. Rorquals and orcas wouldn't really be able to risk warping on grid to grab cans, so it would slow the process down. Then there's logistics, even a jump freighter, if a spy managed to find out where someone was jumping from he could wait til the freighter pilot goes to jump, then blap the cyno, causing the freighter to land on a random spot in grid, then scan it down and grab it before it aligns off. So logistics would get increased risk too.

Overall i think that there would be a lot of problem encountered in null from the loss of local, and all of that would need to be investigated and worked out before being able to make a change that big.