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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#21 - 2013-07-19 03:00:05 UTC
I love cloaking. I do it a lot.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-07-19 04:29:24 UTC
You remember when you were a little kid and you saw Alien for the first time and when you tried to go to sleep you kept thinking a xenomorph was going to jump out from your closet or from under your bed and you were so scared you used to wet your bed because of it and your big brother would tease you and tell everyone at school the next day and you would get beat up on the play ground because everyone thought you were weak and years later when you were 25 you were still a virgin because you were too scared to ask a girl out and all you did was look at interwebzor p-r0n anyway?

Yeah.....that's why people hate afk cloaking.

Don't ban me, bro!
Alicia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-07-19 06:42:23 UTC
So much for being self proclaimed hardcore Null PVPer, they hate not being "in control" and able to gank anyone they see in local. The idea that someone is there they can do nothing about is driving them crazy.

NB: if you want to scare Null carebears, there is nothing that works better than saying in local "I'm cloaked but ignore me, I'm just exploring". Usually that's enough to empty local in 40 seconds.
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-07-19 07:19:18 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
So why do people hate cloaking?
I never understood the hate.


Because they have to work really hard at killing you .

and if they cant find you then they cant kill you so then they get irked and hurl insults at you .

if you dont reply back .. they then fuss about it in corp chat .

if thats not fulfilling they then post here .

and if yet again there is no satisfaction they also get a cloak and become afk cloakers them selves .

and then you have the afk cloakers afk cloaking the cloakers so when you enter a system there is 20 people in the system

no station,, and no one on dscan and all the belts and planets are empty .

Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#25 - 2013-07-19 07:49:40 UTC
Cloaking is not broken, Instant DeCloak/Cyno Hot Dropping is broken, it should take 1 cycle to warm up/Make it like armor reps, the Cyno is available from the end of the first cycle.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-07-19 08:33:44 UTC
Cat Troll wrote:
So why do people hate cloaking?
I never understood the hate.


who hates cloaking?, cloaking is awesome it sounds crazy that someone would hate cloaking.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-07-19 08:37:40 UTC
I don't hate cloaking. What I hate is the AFK cloaker/hot-dropper alt chars that you can't catch and who sit in your system all day.

Yes there are counters, such as leaving the system, but on game design level it's ridiculous that this can happen. In my view cloaking should consume liquid ozone (small amounts, over time) or there should be a way a high-skilled toon can eventually find the cloaker.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-07-19 08:47:41 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Yes there are counters, such as leaving the system, but on game design level it's ridiculous that this can happen. In my view cloaking should consume liquid ozone (small amounts, over time) or there should be a way a high-skilled toon can eventually find the cloaker.


0/10

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-07-19 08:49:09 UTC
People dont like cloakers because they cant look them in the eye

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Raw Matters
KRAUTZ IN SPACE
Parallaxis Alliance
#30 - 2013-07-19 09:17:09 UTC
Cloaking itself is not a problem, the issue is that there is no counter to it. A cloaked spy can sit in your system on a safe spot for days (as proven by way too many afk-cloakers) and there is zero that you can do to drive him out. But that one moment, where you fly out to do a site to earn some money, could be that one moment where he decloaks, cynos in his friends and boom, there goes your precious ship.

In short: people hate the threat afk-cloakers pose in their dangerous space.
Cat Troll
Incorruptibles
#31 - 2013-07-19 09:28:06 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
Cloaking itself is not a problem, the issue is that there is no counter to it. A cloaked spy can sit in your system on a safe spot for days (as proven by way too many afk-cloakers) and there is zero that you can do to drive him out. But that one moment, where you fly out to do a site to earn some money, could be that one moment where he decloaks, cynos in his friends and boom, there goes your precious ship.

In short: people hate the threat afk-cloakers pose in their dangerous space.

ehhmmm....

Lolwut: "Yes, you kids don't know how lucky you have it. These days noobs get given free tackle ships for PvP but back in the old days the only tackle ships we were given were our pods. We had to use them to bump their rookie ships out of alignment to stop them warping off."
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-07-19 09:33:49 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
Cloaking itself is not a problem, the issue is that there is no counter to it. A cloaked spy can sit in your system on a safe spot for days (as proven by way too many afk-cloakers) and there is zero that you can do to drive him out. But that one moment, where you fly out to do a site to earn some money, could be that one moment where he decloaks, cynos in his friends and boom, there goes your precious ship.

In short: people hate the threat afk-cloakers pose in their dangerous space.


Spot on.

The people here giving 0/10 probably have AFK cloaking alts as one of their main gameplay strategies. I want to look at this from a design point of view. Clearly, in that respect AFK cloaking is terrible.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#33 - 2013-07-19 09:40:04 UTC
Local has made nullsec players lazy (read nullbears). They want to be left in peace to mine / rat / whatever in their systems. All it takes is one neutral or red in system, and they flee back to their stations. This is made worse as far as they are concerned if it is an AFK-cloaker, just sitting there for extended periods of time, with all that implied danger, preventing them from being able to play in the complete safety they generally enjoy, without being able to do anything to get rid of them.

But seriously, since when has an AFK-cloaker ever been a threat anyways? Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#34 - 2013-07-19 10:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Xen Solarus wrote:
Local has made nullsec players lazy (read nullbears). They want to be left in peace to mine / rat / whatever in their systems. All it takes is one neutral or red in system, and they flee back to their stations. This is made worse as far as they are concerned if it is an AFK-cloaker, just sitting there for extended periods of time, with all that implied danger, preventing them from being able to play in the complete safety they generally enjoy, without being able to do anything to get rid of them.

But seriously, since when has an AFK-cloaker ever been a threat anyways? Cool



When they're AFK, no threat at all.

When they come back from getting a sandwich, or the cinema, or a day out with the kids, that's when they're dangerous. And you can't know when they're back. As there's no status change whether they're there or not. (Their danger is mostly due to Cynos. By themselves they can't do /that/ much)

And don't point at wormholes as evidence that it's fine.

You can't hot drop people in wormholes.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#35 - 2013-07-19 10:02:17 UTC
Personally I couldn't care less about cloakers, but I can see why it's an issue.
A lot of people here come trolling along and say that nullbears just hide as soon as a neut/red is in local. But you're idiots... The only reason people safe up is because there is no point in fighting. If there was a proper roam gang in local, then generally speaking the fight is on!

But it's not.
9 times out of 10 it's either a cloaky alt, or a cloaky T3. They aren't looking to fight, otherwise they wouldn't need to hide. If you dock up, grab your combat ship and head out to fight, they just sit in a safe and hide. They only want to fight if they can catch a half damaged missioner or a undefended miner.

The complaint isn't that cloaking shouldn't exist, the complaint is that cloaking should be able to be countered, and that people can't just log an afk cloaker in space and be identical to an awaiting hotdropper.

You can troll these guys and say they are just crying all you want, but at the end of the day, people that are against afk cloakers want nothing more than the ability to fight cloakers, so the cloakers are forced into combat rather than just idling in the system.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Fluffy Sheep
Contra Operative Knights
#36 - 2013-07-19 10:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffy Sheep
Quote:
But seriously, since when has an AFK-cloaker ever been a threat anyways? 


I know right, it just like if someone pointed a gun at your face and silently stared at you before backing off into the bushes out of sight. Not a problem. Clearly he hasn't pulled the trigger and guns are only dangerous or a threat if the trigger is pulled. Just carry on as all is safe and well.

Guns don't kill people. Only guns with their triggers pulled do so lets stop this silly business about cloakers and being scared of them.

Sheeze people, get a grip.


Roll
Alicia Aishai
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-07-19 10:20:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:

You can troll these guys and say they are just crying all you want, but at the end of the day, people that are against afk cloakers want nothing more than the ability to fight cloakers, so the cloakers are forced into combat rather than just idling in the system.


Yes, as usual, people whine because they want to make the game easier for their play style.
The mechanics are what they are, they should learn to live with instead of going to whine on forums hoping CCP would change the game in their favor.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#38 - 2013-07-19 10:22:03 UTC
I hate hybrid weapons, when antimateer charges begin to eat my hull is really annoying and ruin my gameplay.
I'm scared to undock if I suspect any ship wquipped with hybrid weapons is int he system, this is something that really need to be adressed and fixed.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#39 - 2013-07-19 10:29:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Alicia Aishai wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:

You can troll these guys and say they are just crying all you want, but at the end of the day, people that are against afk cloakers want nothing more than the ability to fight cloakers, so the cloakers are forced into combat rather than just idling in the system.


Yes, as usual, people whine because they want to make the game easier for their play style.
The mechanics are what they are, they should learn to live with instead of going to whine on forums hoping CCP would change the game in their favor.

Uhhhh what?
You realise the game mechanics are completely different from the way they used to be thanks to player feedback right? People saying what they do like, don't like and what they wish could be change the way the game is developed.

In this instance they are asking for a way to defend against cloaking, as currently a guy with an empty character slot can sit logged in in a system completely safe from any form of detection while having a negative effect on the players in that system. note that most people aren't asking for cloak to be removed, only to make it possible to defend against it.

The only people that would lose out on this is AFK cloakers, and they aren't defending a play style, they are defending a form of invulnerable harassment. If the cloakers weren't such pansies and actually fought then there would be no discussion happening as it wouldn't be a problem.

Sura Sadiva wrote:
I hate hybrid weapons, when antimateer charges begin to eat my hull is really annoying and ruin my gameplay.
I'm scared to undock if I suspect any ship wquipped with hybrid weapons is int he system, this is something that really need to be adressed and fixed.

Yes yes, aren't you clever. You can take something completely unrelated and make it look like its similar then use that as a method of defending your argument. The problem is you can't compare the two. Combat gives risk to both parties, and is a limited time engagement. Cloaking in a safe is risk free and can happen as long as you are willing to be logged on for.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#40 - 2013-07-19 10:35:14 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
In this instance they are asking for a way to defend against cloaking, as currently a guy with an empty character slot can sit logged in in a system completely safe from any form of detection while having a negative effect on the players in that system.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of what's happening.

A guy can sit logged in in a system and be automatically detected, having no affect whatsoever on anything by virtue of how cloaks work. The problem is that people don't respond well to the uncertainty this detection creates in what would otherwise be a perfect intel tool.

There are plenty of ways to defend against it, and since it is itself a counter to a rather broken mechanic, the solution is not to introduce any kind of counter-counter, but to fix the root cause: the aforementioned broken mechanic.