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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#261 - 2013-07-19 21:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
In any case part of the game has already been given away:

Quote:
"Indeed. I had a contract to destroy the industry index of a system. It took me a number of weeks to drive it back to zero and keep it there. It does take more work than people think.

Not much more, though. :)"


Did I say it's poor game design? That you can do this, relatively risk free? Who would contradict me. Guess what. It works. This is the game mechanic that must be protected at all costs by those arguing in favour in this thread.

Brilliant.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#262 - 2013-07-19 21:56:53 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
In any case part of the game has already been given away:

Quote:
"Indeed. I had a contract to destroy the industry index of a system. It took me a number of weeks to drive it back to zero and keep it there. It does take more work than people think.

Not much more, though. :)"


Did I say it's poor game design? That you can do this, relatively risk free? Who would contradict me. Guess what. It works. This is the game mechanic that must be protected at all costs by those arguing in favour in this thread.

Brilliant.


I'll contradict you. Big smile

Seriously, its bad player attitude and mindset. It'n not the games fault you let them shut down all production in system, it is yours.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#263 - 2013-07-19 21:58:00 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:

Eh, I don't think you'd feel that way once the full impact of how the new meta will be played. The way I see it, you''ll trade a handful of cheap barebones fitted ships and lose bling laden ratting ships and hulks to the unexpected rapier surprise in return.


That does not follow. A red is a red. No complacency here. I don't care if he's flying a Rifter or a Rapier.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#264 - 2013-07-19 22:00:52 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:

Seriously, its bad player attitude and mindset. It'n not the games fault you let them shut down all production in system, it is yours.


This player's attitude and mindset is not to give reds easy kills. I've seen plenty that have and it only encourages more hot-dropping and camping.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#265 - 2013-07-19 22:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:

Seriously, its bad player attitude and mindset. It'n not the games fault you let them shut down all production in system, it is yours.


This player's attitude and mindset is not to give reds easy kills. I've seen plenty that have and it only encourages more hot-dropping and camping.



So, simply because you are risk averse, CCP needs to change cloaking?

Still trying to find your posts where you can show cloaking is broken, or that it is a bad game mechanic.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#266 - 2013-07-19 22:04:47 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:

Eh, I don't think you'd feel that way once the full impact of how the new meta will be played. The way I see it, you''ll trade a handful of cheap barebones fitted ships and lose bling laden ratting ships and hulks to the unexpected rapier surprise in return.


That does not follow. A red is a red. No complacency here. I don't care if he's flying a Rifter or a Rapier.



But that's part of the problem for you, you treat every ship the same, as if it is the most dire threat to your existence, when in reality the probability of being attacked is much lower. However, it seems in some strange sort of ying-yang mental kung-fu, you would rather leave system just in case, instead of formulating a defensive or offensive plan to deal with the eventuality of a cloaked ship being an actual hotdrop threat.

I don't fly hulks, but don't they have drone bays? And you said you FC fleets of hulks, so you have what, 5 or so hulks sitting there? Could you imagine if you had your team carry at least 1 ewar drone with them? 5 ewar drones is usualyl good enough to break locks on most ships. Or how about everyone carry a flight of warrior II's? Rapier probably wouldnt like 25 warrior 2's all over him. These are just ideas, the point is try bashing the guys nose in for once, quit running.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#267 - 2013-07-19 22:05:41 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

So, simply because [i]you [/i ]are risk averse, CCP needs to change cloaking?

Still trying to find your posts where you can show cloaking is broken, or that it is a bad game mechanic.



Pay attention Doc. The only carebear I can see is the guy sitting in system to drive down the industry index, cloaked, with nobody being able to do anything about it except undock and go mining, not knowing whether this guy is going to hot-drop or not.

YOU are the one who's risk averse. If you want to drive down the industry index, RISK SOMETHING YOURSELF.

Jesus.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#268 - 2013-07-19 22:07:45 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:

But that's part of the problem for you, you treat every ship the same, as if it is the most dire threat to your existence, when in reality the probability of being attacked is much lower.


Hmmmm. Is it? Sometimes you get dropped, sometimes you don't. You don't know. He's cloaked. You think you know. But you don't for sure. There's no way of finding out apart from previous MO if you know the character.

No, I'm not running a mining fleet in a hot system. Only an IDIOT would do that. End of story.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#269 - 2013-07-19 22:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Victoria Sin wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:

So, simply because you are risk averse, CCP needs to change cloaking?

Still trying to find your posts where you can show cloaking is broken, or that it is a bad game mechanic.



Pay attention Doc. The only carebear I can see is the guy sitting in system to drive down the industry index, cloaked, with nobody being able to do anything about it except undock and go mining, not knowing whether this guy is going to hot-drop or not.

YOU are the one who's risk averse. If you want to drive down the industry index, RISK SOMETHING YOURSELF.

Jesus.




So now I'm the one who's risk averse . Roll

No....you!

If you are willing to allow fear of the unknown (and not reality) dictate how you play, you are not going to get any sympathy here, or game changes from CCP. An AFK cloaker did not drive down your industry index, you allowed it to happen via your own inaction and fear and the same is true of your corp/alliance mates.

Also, I am not the carpenter from Nazareth who died badly.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#270 - 2013-07-19 22:13:12 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:

But that's part of the problem for you, you treat every ship the same, as if it is the most dire threat to your existence, when in reality the probability of being attacked is much lower.


Hmmmm. Is it? Sometimes you get dropped, sometimes you don't. You don't know. He's cloaked. You think you know. But you don't for sure. There's no way of finding out apart from previous MO if you know the character.

No, I'm not running a mining fleet in a hot system. Only an IDIOT would do that. End of story.


I'm sorry, but that is not the end of the story. Look: gambling with a cloaked red in system is alot like gambling on the stock market. There is alot of uncertainty involved and only the bold and the cunning seem to come out ahead. Because they are willing to take risks and are prepared to deal with bear and the bull.

I guarantee you there are people "stupid" enough to mine fleets in a hostile situation, especially if they happen to have an FC and a fleet up. That's because they have tricks up their sleeve and they know what they're doing, and they will reap the rewards while you angrily protest the government about wall street.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#271 - 2013-07-19 22:14:02 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

So now I'm the one who's risk averse . Roll


You fail to distinguish between not being risk averse and being a complete idiot who loses his stuff on a fairly regular basis.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#272 - 2013-07-19 22:16:06 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:

I'm sorry, but that is not the end of the story. Look: gambling with a cloaked red in system is alot like gambling on the stock market.


The only successful strategy I know apart from insider dealing is to buy the troughs and sell the peaks. That is precisely what I do by leaving system when it's got reds in it. All else is gambling and when you gamble more often than not the house always wins, eventually. Been on Somerblink? Give it a whirl.

And try a better analogy
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#273 - 2013-07-19 22:18:35 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:

So now I'm the one who's risk averse . Roll


You fail to distinguish between not being risk averse and being a complete idiot who loses his stuff on a fairly regular basis.


So now you are saying you are an idiot. Yes, I think we already worked that out that because you allow fear of the unknown to dictate how and where you play. That's fine, it's your choice but don't expect CCP to make changes that cater to your poor judgement and lack of critical thinking, and don't try to convince us that your industry index went down for any other reason than you and others allowed it to happen.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#274 - 2013-07-19 22:20:59 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:

I'm sorry, but that is not the end of the story. Look: gambling with a cloaked red in system is alot like gambling on the stock market.


The only successful strategy I know apart from insider dealing is to buy the troughs and sell the peaks. That is precisely what I do by leaving system when it's got reds in it. All else is gambling and when you gamble more often than not the house always wins, eventually. Been on Somerblink? Give it a whirl.

And try a better analogy


Analogy works fine for me. You don't know when the troughs are going to climb and the peaks are going to plummet. My parents got shafted in the housing market bubble, they held on too long. So buying low and selling high isn't an exact science, as these last 10 years have been a testament to. It takes a special kind of person to sense change in the market.

Your leaving the system with a red in it is like buying bonds, safe, but low interest reward. Staying in the lucrative system is like buying stock, high risk, high interest.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#275 - 2013-07-19 22:22:13 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Nothing on your end is going to change other than being able to destroy the occasional ship with nothing but a cloak and a little fuel on it.


This is why I don't think you know what you're talking about. Most of the hot-droppers we get aren't just ships with a cloak and a little fuel in them. Hot-dropping Force Recon and T3s are common. If they can't cap you, they can cyno in a gang. They decide what to do based on the target.



I thought you said you've never been hot-dropped.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#276 - 2013-07-19 22:23:10 UTC
I let my wife read the last 5 or so pages of the thread. She just finished it.

Her exact words?

"Sounds to me like they're just being a chickenshit about it."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#277 - 2013-07-19 22:27:37 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:

So now you are saying you are an idiot. Yes, I think we already worked that out that because you allow fear of the unknown to dictate how and where you play. That's fine, it's your choice but don't expect CCP to make changes that cater to your poor judgement and lack of critical thinking, and don't try to convince us that your industry index went down for any other reason than you and others allowed it to happen.


Again, I refer you to the hilarious "I was paid to sit in system and lower the industry index to zero" comment posted earlier. If it didn't work because people generally don't want their stuff blown up, then nobody would pay someone to do it. It works. And it's risk-free and it's stupid and it's poor game design and it's because a red AFK cloaker can sit in a system and there's NOTHING you can do about it.

Also, train reading comprehension IV.

This is funny. I've had someone give me advice on how not to lose my ship in the same comment in which he said he did lose his (whoops!). I've had someone boast of running an industry index down to zero just for lolz and isk, with little to no effort on his part and now I've got you trying to argue letting the industry index run down is me "letting it happen", when NOT being risk averse would also be me "letting it happen" every time I lost ships to a hot-drop, which of course is just the cost of doing business for you (or not).

You people need to sort your arguments out.

AFK cloaking is poor game design. You know it. You don't admit it because it's kind-of lolz for you and it's part of your strategy and you don't want to lose it.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#278 - 2013-07-19 22:28:32 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I let my wife read the last 5 or so pages of the thread. She just finished it.

Her exact words?

"Sounds to me like they're just being a chickenshit about it."


Argumentum ad Wife's Opinion.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#279 - 2013-07-19 22:29:46 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I let my wife read the last 5 or so pages of the thread. She just finished it.

Her exact words?

"Sounds to me like they're just being a chickenshit about it."


Argumentum ad Wife's Opinion.


Well, in fairness, I did taint the jury pool a little by letting her read some of your posts on other threads. :P

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#280 - 2013-07-19 22:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
So do we know yet, what the problem with a cloak actually is?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.