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So why do people hate cloaking?

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Hiyora Akachi
Blood Alcohol Content
T O P S H E L F
#241 - 2013-07-19 20:44:37 UTC
Guys! Guys! I figured out the problem!

Its not that AFK people are scary or hot drops are scarier, it that these people haven't figured out the difference between HS and Null yet!
They want better reward than High for the same amount of risk! If they can't mine/rat/jackoffinacorner because they're afraid the boogeyman is gonna get them than OBVIOUSLY CCP messed up when they made the most dangerous space in the game!

It's so simple I'm surprised nobody pointed it out yet.



Also, I love you Jenn. This is beautiful.
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Victoria Sin][quote=Kijo Rikki]
[Typhoon, F yo couch]
Power Diagnostic System II
Warp Core Stabilizer II
Warp Core Stabilizer II
Warp Core Stabilizer II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Curator II x4
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#242 - 2013-07-19 20:45:06 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Are all renters this awful at the game, with the same self victimization mindset as this, or are any of them any good?


I'm not a renter.


You sure act like one. Like someone with a sense of entitlement to playing in their system, and a fit gets pitched the moment someone comes along to interfere with that.

Oh, and the cowardice. That too.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#243 - 2013-07-19 20:45:08 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:

Then just link it for me please, I'm not seeing it, and others have asked for the same, but you don't seem to be able or willing to do it.


Bs.


I agree, your position is complete BS since you cannot prove or demonstrate any of this is bad game design.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Soko99
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#244 - 2013-07-19 20:47:44 UTC
Hiyora Akachi wrote:




Also, I love you Jenn. This is beautiful.




HUH? That ships is ugly as hell.. (the fits nice though)
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#245 - 2013-07-19 20:50:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
You sure act like one. Like someone with a sense of entitlement to playing in their system, and a fit gets pitched the moment someone comes along to interfere with that.

Oh, and the cowardice. That too.


Hmmmm. Let me think: I'm not giving a free kill out, so no, I'm not going to run content in a system containing reds. At the very least that will result in my being given a wedgie by the CEO and Alliance knobs.

I've also got a job, so I'm not sitting in a fleet for two weeks every evening and 23/7 at the weekend waiting. Also, no, I can't mine in a Typhoon, even with its lovely stabs. Finally, no, I can't be bothered with the BS that is AFK cloaking, so I changed system to one that isn't AFK cloaked. That is the most effective counter. If you're not in system, you can't be hot-dropped.

Solution:

(1) Make cloaks use fuel, or
(2) Make sig slowly balloon until cloaker is scannable (over a few hours, reset by system jump)

Then, the effort we require to find the AFK cloaker and kill him might start to approach, marginally, the effort he requires to sit AFK cloaked while he mines Veld with his main in High Sec. It might even take us a few hours! That would be something.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#246 - 2013-07-19 20:52:58 UTC
A smart player avoids handing out free kills to his enemy.

A coward whines about having to do it in the first place.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#247 - 2013-07-19 20:56:07 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
A smart player avoids handing out free kills to his enemy.

A coward whines about having to do it in the first place.


How cowardly is sitting cloaked in a system, unscannable, until you decide it's safe enough for you to cyno in your BS on top of a group of macks?

Pretty cowardly, don't you think?
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#248 - 2013-07-19 20:59:47 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:

I've also got a job,


Oh my god, so do I! We have so much in common! Lets hang out!

Quote:
so I'm not sitting in a fleet for two weeks every evening and 23/7 at the weekend waiting.


So you want to play solo and have CCP protect you from people who play it like an MMO and not a single player space sim. Standing fleet is pretty much standard procedure unless you are capable of handling yourself. When you're logged in that means you're not at work, and you should be in fleet and on comms, socializing with your fellow pilots, or at least within earshot. You don't have to sit in fleet every evening or on the weekends because guess what? Whenever you aren;t logged in you don't need to be in the standing fleet! Big smile The only way I could see this being an issue is if you were trying to go to work while you mined...

Quote:
Also, no, I can't mine in a Typhoon, even with its lovely stabs. Finally, no, I can't be bothered with the BS that is AFK cloaking, so I changed system to one that isn't AFK cloaked. That is the most effective counter. If you're not in system, you can't be hot-dropped.


So leaving the most profitable system rather than staying and calling his bluff or being ready if he's not bluffing. Brilliant.
Quote:

Solution:

(1) Make cloaks use fuel, or
(2) Make sig slowly balloon until cloaker is scannable (over a few hours, reset by system jump)

Then, the effort we require to find the AFK cloaker and kill him might start to approach, marginally, the effort he requires to sit AFK cloaked while he mines Veld with his main in High Sec. It might even take us a few hours! That would be something.




Again, they are just going to send in a bunch of cheapies with the occasional shark. They will catch you off guard, your ships will continue to die, and you will continue to live in fear and stay doekced or run away to another system until you learn to deal with them the same way you can deal with them right now.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#249 - 2013-07-19 21:00:54 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:

Solution:

(1) Make cloaks use fuel, or
(2) Make sig slowly balloon until cloaker is scannable (over a few hours, reset by system jump)

Then, the effort we require to find the AFK cloaker and kill him might start to approach, marginally, the effort he requires to sit AFK cloaked while he mines Veld with his main in High Sec. It might even take us a few hours! That would be something.




Solution to what problem exactly? Why should CCP change something because you are simply afraid you might lose a ship?

Where exactly can you demonstrate cloaking is a bad game design?






☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#250 - 2013-07-19 21:06:36 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
A smart player avoids handing out free kills to his enemy.

A coward whines about having to do it in the first place.


How cowardly is sitting cloaked in a system, unscannable, until you decide it's safe enough for you to cyno in your BS on top of a group of macks?

Pretty cowardly, don't you think?


No. He's putting in effort to hunt you, and staying logged in. That's patience.

The guy who whines about having to avoid the cloaked guy, or the guy who just doesn't undock if there are non-blues in local? The guy who would rather not have to, you know, play the game as though other people exist?

That guy is a coward.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2013-07-19 21:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Manfred Hideous
Kijo Rikki wrote:


Oh my god, so do I! We have so much in common! Lets hang out!

Quote:
so I'm not sitting in a fleet for two weeks every evening and 23/7 at the weekend waiting.


So you want to play solo and have CCP protect you from people who play it like an MMO and not a single player space sim. Standing fleet is pretty much standard procedure unless you are capable of handling yourself. When you're logged in that means you're not at work, and you should be in fleet and on comms, socializing with your fellow pilots, or at least within earshot. You don't have to sit in fleet every evening or on the weekends because guess what? Whenever you aren;t logged in you don't need to be in the standing fleet! Big smile The only way I could see this being an issue is if you were trying to go to work while you mined...

Quote:
Also, no, I can't mine in a Typhoon, even with its lovely stabs. Finally, no, I can't be bothered with the BS that is AFK cloaking, so I changed system to one that isn't AFK cloaked. That is the most effective counter. If you're not in system, you can't be hot-dropped.


So leaving the most profitable system rather than staying and calling his bluff or being ready if he's not bluffing. Brilliant.
Quote:

Solution:

(1) Make cloaks use fuel, or
(2) Make sig slowly balloon until cloaker is scannable (over a few hours, reset by system jump)

Then, the effort we require to find the AFK cloaker and kill him might start to approach, marginally, the effort he requires to sit AFK cloaked while he mines Veld with his main in High Sec. It might even take us a few hours! That would be something.




Again, they are just going to send in a bunch of cheapies with the occasional shark. They will catch you off guard, your ships will continue to die, and you will continue to live in fear and stay doekced or run away to another system until you learn to deal with them the same way you can deal with them right now.


You forgot your last option: Go back to Wo, err Highsec.

Quote:
No. He's putting in effort to hunt you, and staying logged in. That's patience.


Indeed. I had a contract to destroy the industry index of a system. It took me a number of weeks to drive it back to zero and keep it there. It does take more work than people think.

Not much more, though. :)
Mekkimaru
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2013-07-19 21:07:15 UTC
ITT:

"I'm too afraid to undock/too lazy to learn how to avoid obvious troll cyno alts"

vs.

"I want to get kills with minimal work, don't change cloaky mechanic nothing is wrong, promise"

and im just here fapping Big smile

"What you don't get is that EvE is the most handholding, casual game ever. It is like farmville. No competition for people that want to put time in it. EvE is the most casual game of all times." - Caesarion Prime 2013
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#253 - 2013-07-19 21:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Kijo Rikki wrote:

So you want to play solo


I don't play solo. I'm mostly either running mining fleet (at POS) or scout for FC.

Kijo Rikki wrote:

So leaving the most profitable system rather than staying and calling his bluff or being ready if he's not bluffing. Brilliant.


I'm not hanging my stuff out to get shot, no. If you do, great that Eve has insurance.

Kijo Rikki wrote:

Again, they are just going to send in a bunch of cheapies with the occasional shark. They will catch you off guard, your ships will continue to die


My ships haven't died because I don't operate in systems containing reds. No, they aren't sending cheapies. As I explained to you before but you have already forgotten due to something CCP are beaming into brains from the forums, it's most often force recon or T3.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#254 - 2013-07-19 21:19:20 UTC
Quote:
Indeed. I had a contract to destroy the industry index of a system. It took me a number of weeks to drive it back to zero and keep it there. It does take more work than people think.

Not much more, though. :)


Mine was to sit on grid about 100+km above the station (no one ever looks there) and provide war intel. It was hilarious.

Quote:
My ships haven't died because I don't operate in systems containing reds. No, they aren't sending cheapies. As I explained to you before but you have already forgotten due to something CCP are beaming into brains from the forums, it's most often force recon or T3.


By the way, I call bullshit on this.

If they're cloaked (as you mentioned before they are cloaked 23/7), how in the 7 layers of hell do you know what they're flying with even the slightest degree of certainty?

So, if you don't operate in systems containing reds, and you've already said you have never lost a ship to one, you have never engaged them, thus, you cannot tell what they fly.

If they actually are afk cloaking all day long, then you cannot tell what they fly.

Basically, you're a liar, along with being a coward.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#255 - 2013-07-19 21:23:54 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:

My ships haven't died because I don't operate in systems containing reds. No, they aren't sending cheapies. As I explained to you before but you have already forgotten due to something CCP are beaming into brains from the forums, it's most often force recon or T3.


Holy crap you are hard headed. I said they will send cheapies IF THEY CHANGE THE SYSTEM THE WAY YOU WANT IT. I in no way implied that they sent cheapies to you now, I was merely explaining exactly how adaptable players are going to circumvent your little "solution".

Comprende?

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#256 - 2013-07-19 21:28:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[
So, if you don't operate in systems containing reds, and you've already said you have never lost a ship to one, you have never engaged them, thus, you cannot tell what they fly.


You're apparently unaware of the existence of the Killboard. This is worrying.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#257 - 2013-07-19 21:30:39 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:

My ships haven't died because I don't operate in systems containing reds. No, they aren't sending cheapies. As I explained to you before but you have already forgotten due to something CCP are beaming into brains from the forums, it's most often force recon or T3.


Holy crap you are hard headed. I said they will send cheapies IF THEY CHANGE THE SYSTEM THE WAY YOU WANT IT. I in no way implied that they sent cheapies to you now, I was merely explaining exactly how adaptable players are going to circumvent your little "solution".

Comprende?


I do now, yes. You weren't clear originally. I don't care if they send cheap ships or expensive ships, at least we will then have an opportunity to kill them.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#258 - 2013-07-19 21:35:16 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[
So, if you don't operate in systems containing reds, and you've already said you have never lost a ship to one, you have never engaged them, thus, you cannot tell what they fly.


You're apparently unaware of the existence of the Killboard. This is worrying.


And you're apparently unaware that an unarmed cyno alt in a Imicus or whatever, doesn't get on killmails. Yeesh, do you actually play EVE?

Or are you literally basing this entire whine off your interpretation of killboards?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#259 - 2013-07-19 21:40:36 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:

My ships haven't died because I don't operate in systems containing reds. No, they aren't sending cheapies. As I explained to you before but you have already forgotten due to something CCP are beaming into brains from the forums, it's most often force recon or T3.


Holy crap you are hard headed. I said they will send cheapies IF THEY CHANGE THE SYSTEM THE WAY YOU WANT IT. I in no way implied that they sent cheapies to you now, I was merely explaining exactly how adaptable players are going to circumvent your little "solution".

Comprende?


I do now, yes. You weren't clear originally. I don't care if they send cheap ships or expensive ships, at least we will then have an opportunity to kill them.


Eh, I don't think you'd feel that way once the full impact of how the new meta will be played. The way I see it, you''ll trade a handful of cheap barebones fitted ships and lose bling laden ratting ships and hulks to the unexpected rapier surprise in return. In time, a red in local will carry the same weight it always has, striking fear in the local population and stunting its economy. I know this because for a cap kill, there is no limit to how many t2 interdictors will be thrown to hold the cap pilot down. There is no limit to how many catalyst and tornados will be thrown at a high sec miner to gank him (other than what is required to alpha him down).

In short, afk cloaking will not be stopped, it will just mutate into a scarier form, because as I've said, you'll now be faced with increased traffic as they bring in replacements and with it the window to deductively reason that someone is actually afk becomes shorter and harder to make a judgement call, the uncertainty factor grows exponentially....and for the ship that remains cloaked, there is no longer a reasonable chance he is afk, it is now a certainty he is actively playing, he is an active threat.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#260 - 2013-07-19 21:45:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
[
So, if you don't operate in systems containing reds, and you've already said you have never lost a ship to one, you have never engaged them, thus, you cannot tell what they fly.


You're apparently unaware of the existence of the Killboard. This is worrying.


And you're apparently unaware that an unarmed cyno alt in a Imicus or whatever, doesn't get on killmails. Yeesh, do you actually play EVE?

Or are you literally basing this entire whine off your interpretation of killboards?


You can't read? I know what the AFK cloakers here fly because they ARE on killboards, with their force recons and T3s. What is your problem? I don't think I ever said anything about a cyno alt Imicus.