Player Features and Ideas Discussion

What's with all this brawling/kiting debate. T2s can do both currently and they'll be better equiped to do it after the buff. Being fast doesn't mean you have to fit it for kiting, it helps brawling too as its relevant to catching snipers, slingshotting kiters and seperating vulnerable targets from the rest of their gang.

The current proposals are more or less okay pending additional testing and also pending medium long range weapon buffs. A few tweaks here and there sure but some of you guys have these outlandish views like EWAR immunity/MJD/Battleship tank etc. MWD sig bonus IMO is a good idea. It gives them a distinct advantage over T3 BCs and in many cases makes some of them very viable Anti-T3BC killers.

all i really want is a burner bonus to the sac. make it faster and i am happy.
the rest is whatever...

Apart from the added drones the Sac is pretty much "as is", so all the old complaints are curiously enough cropping up again as they remain valid:
- None of the cap is available for eWar as it is all destined to be slurped by repairers (plural), because ..
with only 'decent' damage its only option is to outlast the enemy, all of whom do 'good' to exceptional' damage.
- Potential to use five mediums means one flight of EC300 and a flight of light combat.
- HAMs are rather poor when target is not AFK, so three midslots suddenly become 1 when the mandatory full tackle is added, it becomes zero when you realise that AFs are still not dying so you need a TP/extra web or when you realise that repairers need to be heated to keep up which means you need an injector/battery to prevent capping out (regen is only good as long as cap remains).
* Note: it might work well with a plate/MAAR tank considering its resists, but all that does is free up the one midslot that practically all other hulls (except Zealot) has by default.

What were you saying again?

PS: Did you notice that its made into an almost pure missile spammer now, with -3 turrets? No more surprise butt-sex of small and fast clients by using blasters/lasers/425's (yes, that really worked ).

HAC's need to outshine all other cruisers in whatever niche they are slotted into, that is the premise of T2. They all need significantly more than what has offered in the first pass.

Overall I think these changes are done everywhere, but not anywhere near the correct place :)

If you want to do it properly - do it in several stages.

Also I'd suggest several things to consider as a first step:
1. Nerf the cynabal. It's just straight up better than the vaga (or balance all line of the pirate cruisers). With cyna out of the way - you can better see what to do with the vagabond.
2. Drop the price of the HACs. For now they are not worth the money. Their market cost should be like 100mil. With reasonable buff their cost/efficiency will be much better.
3 [optional]. Give the HACs a reasonable class ability. 50% reduction of signature bloom is almost useless. AF with similar bonus costs 40-50mil - that is a good cost for a small, but durable tackle. Paying 150-200mil for HAC heavy tackle is just stupid. Maybe buff the HAC sensor strength so it has a built-in ECCM. Or some kind of neut protection bonus (like only 30% neuting is applied).

After these easy steps you'll have much clearer picture of where the hacs should be.

-- Edit. Grammar.

North

By Ewar you of course mean a scram and web since without those you'll do exactly 0 damage to anything right?


Yea, man that whopping sub 500 paper dps (that will translate to significantly less) sure is something isn't it? Oh whats that, its out done by every single t1 cruiser there is you say?




Not really since its slower than all the rest and its DPS is anemic, it just means its tackled first and dies last without killing anything on the way down



No, it means you have a scram, web, and cap injector because the cap recharge bonus is completely useless on this ship, as its almost always running active reps or a neut/nos in the high slots meaning that 4th slot is ALWAYS a cap injector or it ends up dead in the water.



No, the rest of us know what the Sac does now, and the changes here do almost nothing to it at all to fix whats wrong with it, literally nothing at all, it will be the exact same turd it is now, only they'll say it was rebalanced after. It will still be out dps'd by t1 cruisers, out ran by t1 cruisers, and out ranged by t1 cruisers. The only thing it does well is watch the other crappy HACs around it die first to the t1 cruiser gang.

You really are bad at internet space ships. Please stop posting... but please.. continue flying.. I love to blow up people as clueless as you in EVE.

Ok.. another one that should stay very very away from the forums. Maybe from the whole internet....

CCP broke it by making a ton of ships that have no real identity. I'm happy there trying to fix it, but there is a ton of overlap. Now if you did two things to the HIC, one being a dps bonus, it would become an amazing dps platform (great tank, ability to bubble, sig shrinkage, awesome tank, etc.

It's what we want in a bunch of the hac's right now, and it already exists. So lets reshuffle hac's to make half of them as Tanky as the interdictors? Sounds like there doing the same thing twice.

Everybody is asking for the hac's to become 10x better than the t1's (10x the price, 10x the ship)

It ain't happening. They'd break the game

Except the interdictors are useless as dps. They are tacklers. If they had the same tank they would still be two completely different ships doing completely different roles. Changing a ships survivability (whether through mobility or tank) does nothing to change its role, just changes how good it is at that role. A hacs role is dps regardless of whether you are talking about a brawler or a kite, with the possible exception of the vaga which is sometimes used as tackle or scout. CCP keeps adding more and more ships to the dps role which has left hacs behind (as the new ships are either cheaper or more survivable), this is what is fundamentaly wrong with them. There are two ways to remedy this, either make hacs cheaper or more surviveable. Making them surviveable takes two forms, tank or mobility. CCP has gone for a tank role bonus that only works through mobility (mwd sig reduction bonus) without giving the hacs either the mobility or tank to make good use of it.

TLDR:

- switch out the MWD sig-penalty bonus for a 10% AB bonus similar to the t3 fuel catalyst sub
- cap issues for energy turret based ships, especially with regard to beams
- more cpu on the ishtar
- sacrilege needs 6 HML like the cerberus
- increase the general basic speed to support kiting OR increase the tank/cap/sensor strength
- substitute the HAC prereq of Energy Upgrades V with something useful, depending on the role it should fulfill (for example AB 5, Acc Control 5, Hull Upgrades 5, etc. stuff that makes sense for this group to make it work)

This is a good opportunity for CCP to shape the categories of ships with the boni they apply. What does CCP want HACs to be? Something that can kite? Something that can punch hard and take hard punches? This is the major question and if you want to do "tiericide" properly this has to be the focus - why should I use a HAC instead of a T3 BC or a T1 cruiser that does the job almost as good as my 200m-250m ship I had to skill for so long?

I'd personally prefer an afterburner bonus instead of a mwd bonus - to lose the sig bonus of the hac even with the mwd boni is bad. Additionally, it'll be hard to fit a mwd to a fit without killing the gank or tank which seperates it from the t3 bc. If we take a look at the zealot, which is already in a good spot unlike most of its brethren, if ccp wants to boost mid beams + suggest mwd for ships like this - please take a look at the cap. It just doesn't work out.

What you could do is design one of each racial HAC as a kiter (with MWD boni, range boni) and one heavy hitter (resists, punch for close range) - just think about what you'd like to describe this "HAC"-category like and then apply boosts/boni to these attributes. Talk to CSM / FCs or people who design fittings what the major advantage/drawback of each current ship is and what would help tackle that issue to make it work in a way to counter other ships or be competitive.

Racial diversity is ofc always awesome, a ship like the ishtar as baby domi is awesome to have :)