Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So every other HAC = your soloishtar, your active sacriledge and which other ship?

I see great potential for it being useful on Sacriledge/Deimos/Eagle/Ishtar to get into brawling range alive. Get blapped 50% less by marauding Talos'.

The others are kiting ships. Others = Cerb, Zealot, Muninn, Vaga. Arguably the Eagle and Deimos (especially with new slot layout and LR-weapon changes) be labeled kiter aswell.

Actually I saw people using the ishtar to mitigate damage in a kitestyle aswell. Which mostly works great together with berserkers and some longer range webs. With that amount of highspeed maneuvring, it is good to be less easy to hit - especially with the current new dawn of cruise missiles.

So mwd-bonus is adding to the vaga - but equally or nearly equally to all the other 7 aswell. It might not go far enough for the people who expected sigbased immunity to anything, but it is a HUGE step forward.

And can't wait to fly a zealot with that bonus. Was one of two decent hacs before (ishtar being the other one), and will now most likely not stop dominating that class.

Edit: Never understood why people use ogres and hammerheads over berserkers and valks mostly. Minnie drones are just better beyond light, if the damage type is comparably matching the hostile resist profile. Especially for T2 resists that are not amarr.

Another small update just so you guys don't get mad and think I've abandoned you!

Entering final review steps internally and with CSM before getting latest iteration of this stuff posted here for you guys. Early next week at the latest I'd say.

o/

Ahh… was hoping for friday.

but as long as Core complexion is taking over the vagabond design, I forgive you :)

I don't know if my heart will last that long... but I'd rather wait for something good than get handed something rushed and inadequate.

Thank you for the update, Rise!

And the wait continues :-)

So why is there such a serious gimp on CPU for the Ishtar? I've never understood this, and it would be great of the devs could lend some insight.

do us a fav and un sticky this thread when you get mrk II done please and thank you :)

oh and hopping to get that wow factor this time... now i am excited.

i give them an "E" for effort on this last pass. not an "F" because they at least tried.
i am still fearing the marauder pass...and cs pass.. uug.

sniper hacs are no good. get rid of them. tier 3 over shadow them in every way.

anyway, alot of kewl ideas.
personally, i still think there should be 2 roles.
brawlers and kiters.
i brawl my sac. i can take a lot of crap solo or even 2v1. dual neut canes, drakes..
burner plus good resists = survivability. but thats just me..

i think kiters should gain 10% per lev to point range. this would give around a 36k point. perfect for kiters. they can point anything within gun range.
give them bonuses to tracking for long range medium weapons.
they should also get a base speed of somewhere around the vaggy and zealot.
small sig radius.
they should get a burner bonus to speed and acceleration or just a mass reduction. this would keep the radius down for speed tanking, and keep their "mwd" (insert burner) from being turned off since they are brittle.
they should gain the tackle of interceptors just not the lock speed.
they should have 6 weapons or =. (4 weapons at 10%/lev would equal this at rank 5). that would leave 1 utility high slot.

kiters-10% per lev on range of points. 10% per lev on burner speed. 10% reduction in burner mass (this would give even more speed plus acceleration) - 10% resistance or so.
cerb-heavy missile speed bonus, raw speed increase (other cerb stuff)
zealot-gains sac cap bonus, looses range bonus, gains tracking for beams
diemost- speed, tracking bonus for rails. looses mwd bonus. gains hp
vaggy-artie platform. gains tracking for artillery. rof bonus. other artie stuff

brawlers need hp, resists, speed, tackle/scram, survivability and freakin dps...
they should have the dps of a bc. they should be slower than a normal cruiser due to larger weapons and more armor. they should get a close range damage bonus. they should have the dps of around 7.5 weapons.

brawlers-6% bonus to resistances form where they are now (give them the 1% back and give them 5% more).give them an increase in hp, but not a lot due to resists. make overall hp 20% more than t1.
5 weapons at 10% dps/lev bonus would do this at rank 5.
they are specialists in surviving. they do this with resistance. they dont need a lot of hp, they have ehp.
they are mwd specialists mean:
give them 50% reduction in mwd sig bloom +10/lev to 0 sig bloom at rank 5.
give them 20% per lev of cap loss reduction when fitting an mwd per level. still draws the same amount of cap, but you have more overall.

sac-loses cap bonus to zealot. gains explosion velocity and/or radius bonus.
muninn- becomes the brawler. looses range to vaggy, gain auto cannons and tracking/fall off bonus. typical auto-cannon brawler platform.
eagle- becomes massive blaster boat. gains fall off bonuses, plus tracking. typical blaster boat bonuses applied here.
ishtar- gets blasters back. gains big bonuses to scout drones possibly mwd and tracking as one, 20% dps as another. maybe fall off bonus, but no damage bonus, thats in the drones. the ishtar should keep 125Mbit, but its bonuses are set to shred bc and below.

all fittings need to be adjusted so they can fit full racks of weapons and/or mods. its crazy that they are so over shadowed by your average run of the mill t1 cruiser. tons of money and training times dictate something better.

Can I just ask that we stop suggesting things that shoehorn these ships into certain roles? Ideas like that totally and utterly destroy the "sandbox" idea of having various options and ways to fit your ship, choosing a style that you like and going with it. Certainly some ships will be better/worse than the others for doing various tasks, but the idea that you'd "push" players into a particular play style is contrary to what Eve's sandbox philosophy is all about, and certainly what attracts players to the game.

A ship should be good at doing something and be viable in doing things around that. What I mean by that is if HACs are damage dealing ships, then they should be good at dealing damage, being viable brawlers and being viable kiters. Certainly, as I said, some ships will perform brawling better (Sac) and some will perform kiting better (Vaga), but each should be capable of playing the other way and not totally failing at it.

Buffs to long-range medium weapons are welcomed, because it helps several of these ships perform better at the kiting role, but each should still be workable with short range weapons, and not as some sort of lolfit. The shield boost bonus on the Vaga supports this style of play, while not adversely affecting its role as a kiter. Similarly, giving the Sac a boost to HMLs, too, provides a means for a Sac to be viable from long ranges.

Some of the angst in the thread is stemming from the fact that a MWD bonus only really helps the kiting role, since while the brawlers will use their MWD to close range with the enemy, once they are in range, the bonus is useless, because MWDs will be deactivated. That's why ideas like a MJD fitting bonus (that would allow brawlers to close distance with kiters and kiters to get away from brawlers) have been suggested. Other unique bonuses that affect both would be Marlona's Target Spectrum Breaker bonus, because it would allow another facet of game play with these ships. It is a double-edged sword, since it may break locks of friendly logi, but it does provide a compelling way to increase a ship's likelihood of survival without a straight HP buff or armor bonus or similar.

Just think of how limiting ships would be if they were shoehorned into a certain style and how they'd totally be useless if the meta changed from that doctrine or style. I think CCP's interaction with the community is great, welcome and does wonders for keeping Eve the game we all know and love. Let's not lose sight of the bigger picture, though, that "Eve is a sandbox" is one of the main reasons we all love and continue to log in every day to kill players, sleepers, or hell, even asteroids.

Can I just say that the only thing that upsets me about these changes are:

1) ALL hac's are turning into long range sniper hacs, without exceptions. This really removes the flavor from these ships (espeically the deimos which has always been about blasters, and I really want a gallente blaster boat in the T2 cruiser format.) This redundancy is upsetting by its self. Why even bother with 2 HACS from different hulls? just give us the ishtar, vaga, zealot and cerb at this rate.

2) They seem to not create a distinguished 'role' for HACs, but rather make them good at doing things similar to things that other ships are already good at. (eg teir 3 bc which would essentailly dominate ALL of these HACs regardless.

my suggestion?

Make HACs the personification of what it means to be a 'cruiser', a fast, well armed ship with medium-heavy armor designed to be a vanguard for large fleets and take on smaller support ships in droves.