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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#101 - 2013-07-18 13:19:58 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Why is the Ishtar not getting some fitting buff, the vexor has +100 power grid and +15 CPU


Bingo...The Ishtar has always had huge CPU issues, and this does nothing to change that.
And forget about the Ishtar being used in action that requires high speed.
You can't kite with it, and you can't close with it to brawl.
David Kir
Hotbirds
#102 - 2013-07-18 13:20:14 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Jureth22 wrote:
thanks for ruining the vagabond.also,eagle changes are mostly insignificant.back to drawing board


Ruining the Vagabond?

I hope you're trolling: the contrary would mean you're stupid.



Well iam with david restringing the vaga to a shield bonus is ****...

And lol at people buying hacs at 2 weeks ago.


Wait what?

I actually like the new Vagabond, it looks like a beast!

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#103 - 2013-07-18 13:20:28 UTC
Gnoshia wrote:
Aaaaand the cerberus is still useless lol


You have a pretty strange definition of useless.
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#104 - 2013-07-18 13:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Aloe Cloveris
Deimos with fattest sig by a huge margin, easiest one to track.

Considering AHAC gangs rely on sig tanking, so basically Muninns and Zealots forever. Nothing changes.

Also, Gallente base sensor strength unimpressive as ever. Wouldn't want to present a challenge to Falcons/BBs/EC- drones, that'd be unfair to the poor souls who trained for jams/EC- drones desperately hoping they'd be useful someday!

e: Seriously though, Gallente hulls should be king of sensor strength, in light of ECM's stupid mechanic and ECM belonging to the Caldari, their RP nemesis. Why Gallente shouldn't be significantly more challenging to jam out than the other races I don't know.
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-07-18 13:21:26 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Akturous wrote:
First impressions, I like the changes, I particularly like the change to the Ishtar, not sure on giving the Sac more drones though, remember you can't balance everything with drone bay. I'd still like to see more capacitor across the board for all ships and the cap bonus on the Deimos changed out for something else.

Ishtar needs CPU, it's kind of ridiculous how short on CPU it is. I have no idea why it gets so little.

ALL HACS need better lock range. The **** poor lock range on these things interfears with their intended specialised role, for example the Muninn is supposed to be a sniper, but its lock range is 55km... Not enough.

Vaga needs more CPU if you want it to fit an ASB. It needs more PG as well frankly, the TE nerf has hit Auto kiting hard and it hasn't got the powergrid to fit Artillery, the SFI does a shield arty boat better which is sad. Unless you want to pigeon hole it into dual 180 XL ASB config.

Given the sort of mildness of these changes, I presume Tech 3's will be getting the nerf bat straight up the clacker.


I'm quite afraid that the Vaga won't be getting any more PWG.
Just think of it, it'd become a cheaper, more mobile Sleipnir, with the same tanking capacity.


It wouldn't really be as strong as a sleip, and the command ships are going to be rebalanced later too. So you shouldn't compare them just yet.
James1122
Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
#106 - 2013-07-18 13:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: James1122
Have been waiting for HAC buff for forever so thank you :)
Will need SISI and eft before i can give proper feedback so the below is just my gut feeling.

I Like the 50% reduction bonus alot :) makes kiting/nanoing more viable.

SAC changes are good but i do believe after the med weapons buff Heavy missiles will need a revisit.

Zealot was already a good ship and nothing of note really has changed so no comment there

Cerb looks pretty epic now (maybe OP ?) will need to wait till eft and SISI though to see how it turns out

Eagle i'm mixed on. Changes are good, but i can't help but feel that its still going to be dead in the water against ABC snipers. I also still can't imagine its going to be any good at brawling either.

Diemost midslot was very much needed. My major concern here is the big hit to its armour. I feel this ship may just be a bit too weak in the EHP department.

Ishtar change is awesome. Glad that happened! Only gripe is at having an extra turret but no extra PG :S

I have very mixed feelings about the Vaga. It was already completly outclassed and dominated by the Cynabal, I'm scared that the change you've made is going to make the Vaga a 1 trick pony with LASB fits being the only realy fitting viable for it. Especially considering a lot of the T1 cruisers can take on a standard buffer tank Vaga.

Munnin changes are also very good. (personally would have liked +1 mid) but this change makes it a real competitor with the zealot for being a Brawly AHAC



I guess my overal opinion though is that i am a little underwhelmed. The ships themselves are fine but i find them just a bit lacking when combared to t1 cruisers, navy cruiser, bcs (abcs especially). I guess i just feel overall they could do with a litle more speed and EHP.

....
Carka Gerschen
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#107 - 2013-07-18 13:22:26 UTC
So just for my understanding. The Ishtar actually loses a slot and doesn't gain any fitting resources. It is already impossible to fit decently without going for a nanofit. I guess that is the thing you want with them, with no other viable options there.

Regards,

Carka
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#108 - 2013-07-18 13:23:02 UTC
Huh.. this is odd..

Changes and there isn't anything i think is majorly wrong with them.. Mostly its good changes.


I think you should remove the drone bay bonus from this ishtar (and later the ishkur) because really, that bonus seems to just be a "**** you" to anyone that doesn't have the skill to V.

I like how you're discouraging the awful use of AC's for kiting with giving the vaga a shield boost bonus.

(Only thing i don't agree with is lumping the sac in with the Eagle and the cerb.. The sacrilige has always been a more useful Ahac than those two >=[ ]

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#109 - 2013-07-18 13:23:37 UTC
It'd be nice to see speed, tracking and range on the ishtar. I'm guessing that control range bonus is only for combat drones, like the current one, which would make no sense. It kind of sucks to see a drone ship being either a sentry drone ship or a combat drone ship (nexor, dominix). Sentries are cool and all, but it would be nice to have better damage application from combat drones sometimes. the bay per level bonus also is a complete joke (medium rep amount plz, come on).
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-07-18 13:25:05 UTC
Taking a second look at fitting on the Muninn, this thing is still very very bad. You need 2 ACR's to fit 720s and a 1600 plate with a 10mn AB and you get 3120 alpha and 355 dps (not including the changes) with 2 gyros (so lows would be DC, RAR, Explosive and Kin hardener, 1600 plate).

This is pretty pathetic alpha with close range ammo on a specialist arty platform considering the Loki manages 4.5k alpha and double the tracking with the same fitting. I think the Muninn needs another turret and the fittings to fit a full rack of 720s and a 1600 with AB with 1 ACR, then it might see some use outside of BL novelty/old times sake gangs.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Harimata
Doomheim
#111 - 2013-07-18 13:25:30 UTC
Can you explain the reasoning behind the Muninn change? The 6/3/6 layout strongly encourages it to be armor fit, which creates a lot of overlap between the it and zealots/diemos/etc. What role is it meant to fill? Would it be able to compete with a standard zealot or a post-buff diemos in those roles?

The other thing to mention is that a rupture has a 5/4/5 layout, making both shield and armor fits viable. Why not have a 6/4/5 layout on a Muninn for the same flexibility? This would keep the whole racial continuity thing going strong.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-07-18 13:25:36 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Why is the Ishtar not getting some fitting buff, the vexor has +100 power grid and +15 CPU


Bingo...The Ishtar has always had huge CPU issues, and this does nothing to change that.
And forget about the Ishtar being used in action that requires high speed.
You can't kite with it, and you can't close with it to brawl.

It would also seem that CCP Rise has a Sentry drone fetish, this is twice now we get a bonus that pretty much applies only to sentry drones.
And that is weird considering the MWD role bonus all the HAC got.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Andrea Griffin
#113 - 2013-07-18 13:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Griffin
This is one of the few chances we have to inject something new and interesting to ship mechanics. You're putting in a lot of effort into the ship rebalancing crusade, and that's great, but so many of the ships feel the same. HACs in the current and slated future state aren't any different. "It has more EHP and does more damage." The MWD sig radius isn't all that special either; many other ships have it.

Can we please at least try to do something interesting with these ships? Something that no other line of ships can do?

This is the Great Balancing Apocalypse - I very much doubt that Eve will have a chance to do this again for years.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Rynnik
Evasion Gaming
The Ancients.
#114 - 2013-07-18 13:27:23 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
ISHTAR...

Fittings: 700 PWG, 285 CPU


Please review Ishtar fitting, and if determined that a buff there is not warranted would you mind taking a couple of lines to explain why?
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#115 - 2013-07-18 13:28:19 UTC
darius mclever wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
darius mclever wrote:
The cerb used to have 250k range, which was especially nice to annoy falcons to death.
IMHO it needs the range.


well if we had the TD missile change (when are we getting that btw CCP?) it would be fine without it.


How would a module that lowers the effective range of the cerberus, help the cerberus?


errr.. because they would add to TE's TC's etc.... think about it....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#116 - 2013-07-18 13:28:51 UTC
looking forward to round 2 rise since you don't seem to get anything right first time around

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
David Kir
Hotbirds
#117 - 2013-07-18 13:29:04 UTC
Diesel47 wrote:
David Kir wrote:
Akturous wrote:
First impressions, I like the changes, I particularly like the change to the Ishtar, not sure on giving the Sac more drones though, remember you can't balance everything with drone bay. I'd still like to see more capacitor across the board for all ships and the cap bonus on the Deimos changed out for something else.

Ishtar needs CPU, it's kind of ridiculous how short on CPU it is. I have no idea why it gets so little.

ALL HACS need better lock range. The **** poor lock range on these things interfears with their intended specialised role, for example the Muninn is supposed to be a sniper, but its lock range is 55km... Not enough.

Vaga needs more CPU if you want it to fit an ASB. It needs more PG as well frankly, the TE nerf has hit Auto kiting hard and it hasn't got the powergrid to fit Artillery, the SFI does a shield arty boat better which is sad. Unless you want to pigeon hole it into dual 180 XL ASB config.

Given the sort of mildness of these changes, I presume Tech 3's will be getting the nerf bat straight up the clacker.


I'm quite afraid that the Vaga won't be getting any more PWG.
Just think of it, it'd become a cheaper, more mobile Sleipnir, with the same tanking capacity.


It wouldn't really be as strong as a sleip, and the command ships are going to be rebalanced later too. So you shouldn't compare them just yet.


Te issue isn't the comparison between it and the Sleipnir, it's the comparison between it and the other HACs.
A 1000 dps tank is a huge thing, for a cruiser, and even more so for a kiting ship.
The LASB fits work pretty nicely, in my opinion.
Now if they fixed offgrid boosting, and thus all of those speed creeps you can find around, the Vaga would fall right back into its previous niche.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2013-07-18 13:29:38 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
It'd be nice to see speed, tracking and range on the ishtar. I'm guessing that control range bonus is only for combat drones, like the current one, which would make no sense. It kind of sucks to see a drone ship being either a sentry drone ship or a combat drone ship (nexor, dominix). Sentries are cool and all, but it would be nice to have better damage application from combat drones sometimes. the bay per level bonus also is a complete joke (medium rep amount plz, come on).


He said it works with sentries Trouser, it's on the 2nd page I think. I agree on the giving the drone bay bonus as native and adding rep amount or drone speed to give heavies some love.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#119 - 2013-07-18 13:29:58 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Why is the Ishtar not getting some fitting buff, the vexor has +100 power grid and +15 CPU


Bingo...The Ishtar has always had huge CPU issues, and this does nothing to change that.
And forget about the Ishtar being used in action that requires high speed.
You can't kite with it, and you can't close with it to brawl.

It would also seem that CCP Rise has a Sentry drone fetish, this is twice now we get a bonus that pretty much applies only to sentry drones.
And that is weird considering the MWD role bonus all the HAC got.


well Fozzie started it with the trsitan :)

yes the MWD bonus kind of seems like a token gesture without any backing up whatsoever....

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Yanarix Blitz
Black Scare
#120 - 2013-07-18 13:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Yanarix Blitz
CCP Rise wrote:

VAGABOND - we are rolling the max velocity bonus into the base stats, and then replacing it with a shield boost bonus.
This has nice racial continuity and supports a play-style that has been emerging for the Vaga anyway as a close range active brawler

Please keep in mind that it can still be used exactly the same way that it always has been with virtually no change in performance.


close range brawler? active boosting? and no change in performance?

did you dudes even take a look at your own game in the last 5 years????? none of those points is even remotely true for the vaga.

its a kiter only outmatched by the cyna perhaps!!!!! this changes are just plain ********, its not a pve ship to require an active boosting bonus omg...
... and then you give all hacs a mwd bonus which is totally used in close range brawling. you are so full of crap its unbelievable