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[Odyssey 1.1] Heavy Assault Cruisers

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JerseyBOI 2
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2013-07-18 16:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: JerseyBOI 2
10% bonus to drone tracking speed and optimal

Make Omni Directionals high slot mods

fixed for you. Or delve inot the **** storm of making heavies useful (the hard way)
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#342 - 2013-07-18 16:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
EDIT: Ignore, my bad
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#343 - 2013-07-18 16:19:23 UTC
JerseyBOI 2 wrote:
10% bonus to drone tracking speed and optimal


fixed for you. Or delve inot the **** storm of making heavies useful (the hard way)


Ishtar has that?
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#344 - 2013-07-18 16:19:40 UTC
chatgris wrote:
I think there is a typo on the Ishtar.

It is listed as having only 125 bay, while the current Ishtar has 375 bay, with no mention of a major nerf there.


Look at the HAC skill bonus
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2013-07-18 16:20:59 UTC
Ivol Kishtani wrote:
Does anyone use the Muninn as a long range platform? I would think a 4th mid would be more useful than an additional low.


Yes, the Muninn is used as a long range platform more than a short ranged brawler.


also, please increase the locking range.
Ezek Price
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#346 - 2013-07-18 16:21:46 UTC
Doed wrote:

Muninn, designed for sniping, has a utility high, what? give it a mid instead of the high.


Smartbomb to reduce incoming missile dmg and clear drones. That is all.

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Andrea Griffin
#347 - 2013-07-18 16:21:58 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
The Deimos when doing what it was meant to do, be a close range brawler, is subjected to neuts, scrams and webs. If that is its area of operation it should be able to take some punishment there.
*cough cough* EWar resistance *cough cough*

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Temuken Radzu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2013-07-18 16:23:54 UTC
I believe the Ishtar is should have something unique for being T2, right now it has the same drone bonuses as the Dominix. I would like to change te tracking/optimal range bonus for this:
I also made the Ishtar lose a turret hardpoint

ISHTAR -
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty

Gallente Cruiser Bonuses:
5 km bonus to Drone operation range per level
10% bonus to drone hitpoints and Damage

Heavy Assault Cruiser Bonuses:
+5 drone bandwitch and 1 extra drone controlled per lv
50 m3 extra Drone Bay per level

Slot layout: 4H(-1), 5M, 5L; 3 turrets(+1), 0 launchers
Fittings: 700 PWG, 285 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1400(-6) / 1600(-18) / 2300(+191)
Capacitor (amount) : 1300(+175)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 185(-6) / .52 / 11700000 / 8.43s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 125
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 294 / 7
Sensor strength: 16 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 145

The extra drone that is controlled can either be used for a extra group of light drones at Heavy Assault Cruiser V or for a extra Sentry or Heavy drone.
This will make the Ishtar a true T2 ship i believe.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#349 - 2013-07-18 16:24:31 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
For the love of all that is holy. You need to seriously rethink the Deimos. It already struggles to have any tank to get close to apply the blaster DPS and you nerf the tank significantly. I could be wrong, but if my memory serves me correctly any other HAC that wants to fit the highest DPS close range weapon system it has bonuses for, MWD and a large plate/extender - does not have to add 3 modules/rigs for the power grid. Most don't have to add any. So please consider unnerfing the EHP you did, look at exchanging the MWD bonus for another +5% to medium hybrid damage/rof and make sure it has the power grid to fit a tank to enable it to get on top of a target and enough power grid to fit the guns needed to apply the DPS when it gets there.

Please, please, please I can't say please enough. Think of all the dangers a blaster Deimos has to endure that most other HACs do not. The Deimos when doing what it was meant to do, be a close range brawler, is subjected to neuts, scrams and webs. If that is its area of operation it should be able to take some punishment there. Maybe changing the MWD bonus to -20% to incoming neutralizer effectiveness would be welcome.


Tracking bonus would help rails too... Just saying....

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Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#350 - 2013-07-18 16:30:52 UTC
Temuken Radzu wrote:
10 droans



no. you get way enough DPS as it is.

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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#351 - 2013-07-18 16:32:00 UTC
Ishtar has battleship dps already
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#352 - 2013-07-18 16:36:08 UTC
While im thrilled about HACs finally getting rebalanced, I must admit I'm a bit underwhelmed. Esp. by the blanket MWD bonus, Ishtar's lack of fitting and some sad bonuses (Sac, Ishtar). Also whole class (or at least half of it) could use EHP buff.

SSC Brokering Service
Drunken Bum
#353 - 2013-07-18 16:37:31 UTC
MORE CPU ON THE ISHTAR. Come on. Its got the cpu of a frigate.

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#354 - 2013-07-18 16:43:43 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
For the love of all that is holy. You need to seriously rethink the Deimos. It already struggles to have any tank to get close to apply the blaster DPS and you nerf the tank significantly. I could be wrong, but if my memory serves me correctly any other HAC that wants to fit the highest DPS close range weapon system it has bonuses for, MWD and a large plate/extender - does not have to add 3 modules/rigs for the power grid. Most don't have to add any. So please consider unnerfing the EHP you did, look at exchanging the MWD bonus for another +5% to medium hybrid damage/rof and make sure it has the power grid to fit a tank to enable it to get on top of a target and enough power grid to fit the guns needed to apply the DPS when it gets there.

Please, please, please I can't say please enough. Think of all the dangers a blaster Deimos has to endure that most other HACs do not. The Deimos when doing what it was meant to do, be a close range brawler, is subjected to neuts, scrams and webs. If that is its area of operation it should be able to take some punishment there. Maybe changing the MWD bonus to -20% to incoming neutralizer effectiveness would be welcome.


You do know that Rise only fits shield Deimoses right?
Honestly, the Thorax hull would be MUCH better served by allowing the Thorax to continue using the paper-thin shield tank/high gank blaster setup, and give an extra low to the Deimos and make it a tanky brawler. The Zealot would still project damage better and the MWD bonus, such as it is, on the Deimos would help it to stay in range.

I'd design the Deimos to have 5/3/7 (with one high moved to a low), 4 turrets with one of the bonuses doubled up to 10% (and the other a RoF optimally). That way, the Deimos could do well as an armor tanky brawler and have the fitting space for an additional damage mod or more tank.

Paper thin tank works on the Thorax because it's so cheap. I don't want to paper tank a 200 mil isk ship for a niche max-gank setup and not really have one that excels at being an armor blaster brawler. Besides, if I was going to paper tank a high(er) isk ship, I'd just use a Talos.

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Bl0odscream
Homowners
#355 - 2013-07-18 16:44:03 UTC
Is there any chance of increasing the built-in targeting range of some of the ships that currently have 50km ones? With the additional rework being done on the long-range medium-sized weapon systems, it might be a nice fit. There is quite a range of targeting ranges on the current T2 HAC hulls. From 50km all the way up to 80km. The ships that have the lowest targeting range also have the lowest number of mid-slots making fitting the re-worked long range weapons more difficult to rationalize to fit.

"Why fit the long range systems if I can't target that far?"

Bumping up the ones with lower range might help add to the adoption of Beam/Rail/Artillery because you wouldn't need to fit SeBos and such to make the weapons reach their full long range potential.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#356 - 2013-07-18 16:44:10 UTC
Rise, another thing to consider with your sentry love is the skill requirements. For a viable Isthar, you need lights+mediums, heavies, and sentries. That is a hell of a lot of training for the main weapon system. No other HAC has this intense training. It is over 3x the required skill points over turret based weapon systems in order to use all three classes of T2 drones. Please give us more drone loving bonuses.
Temuken Radzu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#357 - 2013-07-18 16:44:15 UTC
Drunken Bum wrote:
MORE CPU ON THE ISHTAR. Come on. Its got the cpu of a frigate.


more CPU is also wanted, unless you go deadspace or faction it has some severe fitting issues. It cant fit cruiser sized weapons like this
Butzewutze
Doomheim
#358 - 2013-07-18 16:46:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Butzewutze
I am not to impressed by the changes to be honest. Why doesnt the zealot have a dronebay but the muninn gets one? Why does the muninn get a lowslot instead of a med (that would truly beeing handy on that ship). Why does the Vagabond get a shieldboosting bonus with only 4 mediumslots? MWD + point -> 2 slot loltank?

Quote:
afterburner variations that are already very strong


About what setups are you talking? I am curious.
Chris Roberts
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#359 - 2013-07-18 16:47:34 UTC
Changes may be useless to make some of these ships more viable.

Regardless, what happened to the idea of changing T2 ships to more specialised versions of T1 ships, what is the deimos specialised in apart from dying.

T1 and faction ships still look to outperform or match for a lower build difficulty.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#360 - 2013-07-18 16:47:36 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
Rise, another thing to consider with your sentry love is the skill requirements. For a viable Isthar, you need lights+mediums, heavies, and sentries. That is a hell of a lot of training for the main weapon system. No other HAC has this intense training. It is over 3x the required skill points over turret based weapon systems in order to use all three classes of T2 drones. Please give us more drone loving bonuses.


You can also run a perfectly good ishtar with hac 1