Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Heavy missiles do hit moving targets pretty well. Of course they hit well tackled targets much harder.

Very long range weapons like HMLs (on the cerb or DNI) give rise to new tactical capabilities like area denial for instance.

It you've got 4 or 5 HML fitted ships sitting 100km off some strategic point lobbing an unending annoying barrage of missiles in while evading any attempt to fire back, that is a very useful weapon.

It prevents your enemy from sitting still and getting himself organised.

If he's in a bubble at that time he's got some difficult choices to make. If he's tackled by something strong that he can't kill quickly and those missiles keep coming in, he's dead. No question.

All weapons systems are not equal. They all have strengths and limitations. We either accept this or demand a game with only one weapons system.

I prefer the diversity. I don't really care if one is generally better than the rest, as long as there is a role for all of them. I believe there is.

True to an extent, but I'd take Eagles over HML Cerberus' all day. Missile flight time at 100km+ is quite long.

Glad that we all now understand how DPS works. As for the complaints about damage application on HML's; if you aren't solo this is not an issue. The ability to have a single heavy tackler as the only target in range while Cerbs and Tengus hurl missiles from relative safety is pretty sweet for small gang activity. You have to get creative to apply HML damage the same way you need to apply long range turret damage before a target gets it's transversal up. This seems pretty balanced to me.

The issue is that RLMs outdamage HMLs even on tackled targets, let alone untackled ones, especially when skirmish links come into play. 6 RLMs with scourge fury lights on the new Cerberus does 458 DPS. 6 HMLs with CN Scourge on the same ship is 486 DPS. Those have an explosion radius of 105m with perfect skills, the RLMs do more DPS even if you're shooting at unlinked faction cruisers webbed to zero.

Also, remember that minimizing your signature radius requires no SP. Maximizing missile damage takes a lot of SP. Due to how missile damage works, an HML user not having Guided Missile Precision V is a huge loss in damage. If you're using RLMs, those IV skills don't really matter.

HMLs are pure and absolute **** and should never be used.

They have half the range, but even if you use CN Scourge lights for 100km range, that's still 386 DPS, and will outdamage the HMLs on basically any faction cruiser with skirmish links, even if they're stationary. Of course, if they're not tackled, the HMLs don't do anything, they can't even hit untackled ABing battleships for full dps.

Alternatively, consider that the "dual" or "quad" style turret weapons may be underpowered. Tiericide seems to be a thing even among weapons now, so perhaps make the dual and quad weapons fire at frigate size. They already have worse tracking than their light variants in addition to the signature size. I think it would be neat to see a strong reason for taking the light weaponry of a class, as there currently exists in missiles.

That said, HMLs need to get some damage back. Damage shouldn't be quite that close to the low end of the class. :/

Yes I see. I guess with hm you're trading the ability to hit fast targets for the ability to hit at any range. prior to the nerf, hm was OP. maybe it could use a little tweak. maybe.

I also agree that skirmish links can create some pretty ridiculous scenarios, such as cruisers with frigate-sized sig radii.

Listening to a friend who ran Lvl 4's in a Tengu complain that he can now 'only' hit at 75 KM or so now, yeah, I'd say that HML's needed a bit of a nerf. The buffs to Medium Turrets should make them a viable option for both PVE & PVP, something that has been badly needed, especially for hybrids (a mission-fit rail Thorax has long been a joke, even with perfect skills in Gunnery).

Now, if you'd only do something about Blasters...

It's worth noting that the Sig bonus from a Titan specifically does not stack with the sig bonus from Skirmish Links, these bonuses overlap.

At the very least the Rapid Deployment Link is getting a small nerf which helps things a little for everyone.



Actually with maxed skills Target Painters have optimal at 45km and falloff at 90 which puts them right at the edge of what is generally considered PvP sniper ranges. Plus Target Painters stack on a single target where as every ship has to bring their own tracking computer. If you mix a few TP bonused ships like Lokis or Huginns into your fleet, even a small fleet with only 1-2 of these, then you can drastically increase the effectiveness of your weapons and, depending on relevant skill bonuses, completely negate the effect of Skirmish Links on an opponent. Obviously this doesn't work so well solo but in a true 1v1 your opponent won't have link bonuses and you can still bring webs and target painters if they do.


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Regarding Rapid Light Missiles: I think the question of whether "Dual" guns are working effectively is a better question than if RLMs are OP, especially given that drone-focused ships can give tackle frigates a similarly hard time, as can many projectile ships if the pilot knows what he's doing.

It's also worth noting that most solo-frigates simply won't mess with a missile ship where as in a fleet their response to a RLM cruiser or Battlecruiser is going to be to send in Heavy Tackle where the RLMs are going to be less DPS than HAMs or Heavies would have been, thus putting the person at a disadvantage against that ship class.

I hear ya,
also I know that physics and EVE don't really mix that well together.

If we would go down that road, there wouldn't be any reason to use any other wepaon system at hybrid turrets for any kinds of combat in EVE.

Why?

Well, an antimatter - matter reaction would simply put just vaporize anything it would come in contact with, period.

But antimatter shells of all sizes would be the end of every fight, for both sides.

Nothing that mankind has or will come up with in any future time could ever help you or protect anyone from that, period.

Pulsars have such a strong gravitational pull that they will just crush any material known to man on an atomic level - clone activated..

Magnetars have such strong magnetic fields that they will rip electrons out of atoms - the end.

A star that goes supernova will create so much radiation that you will be killed in your pod even if you were 100 lightyears away from that star - the end.

Anyhow,
that worst thing that has ever come to EVE was the day somebody had that idea of missile tracking about six years ago.

Many missiles have a guidance system that need a target lock, so they don't miss and the payload makes sure, they get the job done.
Well 30.000 year from now mankind is becoming so stupid that they cannot invent a proper guidance system anymore and Titans can "speedtank" citadel torpedos, by accelaration - good times.

Yet another thing that bothers me is that someone didn't read about the Caldari and the Gallente wars properly and got their weapon systems confused.
What happens is that we get Gallente kiting with railguns and Caldari turrets boats need to fit blasters to at least hit something before they perish.