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rockets: the most useless weapon in the game?
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Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#101 - 2013-08-12 12:08:13 UTC
Alaric Faelen wrote:
Blaming the gear are we? Couldn't possibly be the pilot. It's all down to the difference in one module's meta.....

That alone confirms an utter lack of understanding the mechanics of the game to begin with. T2 is great, especially for non-weapon modules like tank. But it sure isn't a huge difference, especially considering their cost versus the T1 variant. Anyone harping on T2 weapons hasn't even looked at the numbers.

None of it matters. Given a billion isk T3, this guy would lose. The SP, the ships, the ammo and modules are all the last part of a PvP fight. Every fight this guy has lost was over before locks were even established. No amount of SP or shiny ship collection will ever change that. Purposely refusing to even try...well the results are as expected. Game is working as intended.

The mantra of "I demand to win despite sucking" is going to be a hard sell on Eve players. Especially when so many make it a point of pride to have gone thru the gauntlet of hard loss and persevered.

And oh yeah, WoW is swimming in the shallow end of the MMO pool. Saying Eve is nothing like WoW is the highest form of compliment you can give us.
(bet he's already unsubbed)


I'm getting better

My main problem is that I don't have the DPS to take out the enemy before my own shields go down. Thats why I feel tech 2 weapons are vital. And often I find myself forced to chose between afterburner/MWD or a medium shield extender. So I do with a small shield extender and an afterburner.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#102 - 2013-08-12 12:49:06 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:


I'm getting better

My main problem is that I don't have the DPS to take out the enemy before my own shields go down. Thats why I feel tech 2 weapons are vital. And often I find myself forced to chose between afterburner/MWD or a medium shield extender. So I do with a small shield extender and an afterburner.


You could have had T2 rockets by now if you'd had taken the time to train it, as well as Engineering V and Electronics V and related support skills to make that fitting easier. You've been playing and making excuses for that long now.

And you were asking about getting a Tengu a while back -- just wait until you have to train Caldari Cruiser V. It's going to take you five years to get one; two or three months of actual training time and the rest, stalling and whining about how hard it is and how you can't do it.





> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Feffri
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#103 - 2013-08-12 17:04:51 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
FuzzyButt wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Denuo Secus wrote:

- Rockets do less DPS on paper but are much more robust and reliable. If you want peak damage, use blasters. But if you want some flexibility against ewar, neuts, kiting...rockets are fine.


I've train for missiles only so turrets are out of the question.



Cross training =P

doesn't take long

if you don't enjoy missiles you should probably start training guns now =D


missiles are great for pve, great range so low damage to you which means you have get low repair costs.

Yet I'm having no fun at all in pvp because everyone just cheats and uses tech 2 weapons and ammo on what ever ship they are flying and kills you in 5 seconds because they *******s and don't want a fair fight and then pod you.

How can anyone enjoy this kind of pvp? you can't

the only way to have any fun in pvp is to be in the bigger better ship or have someone in a bigger better ship. and anyone who says they started killing battleships on day 1 you are a liar or an alt of a 100m sp player. Either way your being untrue.



If this a troll well done... if not .... really?! This is the wrong game for you wow is much more user friendly try that game.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#104 - 2013-08-12 18:49:57 UTC

Rockets are an amazing weapon system in frig combat:
  • Near perfect damage application when inside scram web range without worry about tracking or range.
  • Low fitting requirements.

    • With that said, they are best used on a ship that can control range (which is more difficult for Caldari hulls). This allows you to negate your opponents turret dps (by either outranging or outtracking them).

    And as for FW.... It isn't the rampant use of t2 weapon systems that makes you ineffectual in the FW arena, it is the rampant use of Off Grid Boosters. A low-meta rocket kestrel/condor can easily compete with many t2 fit t1, t1, & faction frigate hulls. However, they cannot compete when your opponent is boosted... which often improves their ship by adding +50% EHP, +125% reps/s, +50% speed, +50% tackle range, etc. Boosters break the game, and FW is so full of booster alts that you really shouldn't PvP there unless you have them too.

    Torrema Sinclair
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #105 - 2013-08-13 11:05:05 UTC
    Are you using the directional scanner at all?
    Lucas Kell
    Solitude Trading
    S.N.O.T.
    #106 - 2013-08-13 14:39:06 UTC
    Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
    Paul Otichoda wrote:
    I'm getting better

    My main problem is that I don't have the DPS to take out the enemy before my own shields go down. Thats why I feel tech 2 weapons are vital. And often I find myself forced to chose between afterburner/MWD or a medium shield extender. So I do with a small shield extender and an afterburner.


    You could have had T2 rockets by now if you'd had taken the time to train it, as well as Engineering V and Electronics V and related support skills to make that fitting easier. You've been playing and making excuses for that long now.

    And you were asking about getting a Tengu a while back -- just wait until you have to train Caldari Cruiser V. It's going to take you five years to get one; two or three months of actual training time and the rest, stalling and whining about how hard it is and how you can't do it.


    QFT.

    I've got a character started in early July ans she's a T2 small guns minmatar pilot already. If you just bit the bullet and took the training time to get youre chose weapon to T2, you can train to spec 4 in no time. The other 5s you need are Electroics, Engineering and Weapon Upgrades. With those to 5, and AWU to 4, your weapon spec to 4, your ship skill to 4, and a few other support skills to 4, you'd be finding it a lot easier.

    As a small Caldari, you can make a pretty decent passive shield tank with very few long trained skills. The 80/20 rule works for most of the skills you'd need.

    Mostly, when it comes down to it, you just need to put the effort in and learn what you need to learn. Ask people for advice and listen when it's given. Don't just dismiss everything as "Oh T2 takes too long, it should just be removed from the game" as that's never going to happen.

    The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

    Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
    Alaric Faelen
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #107 - 2013-08-13 16:45:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaric Faelen
    Look, you need to get over the failure being in the gear. T2 modules are fine and dandy- but are like rigs in that they also come at a cost- usually they have higher fitting requirements. If you fully outfit a ship with T2 guns, you may in fact have to downgrade elsewhere to make it work- such as the use of fitting modules where you could be using a damage module. Or, you will need to invest in high multiplier skills like Advanced Weapons Upgrade V just to run all that T2.
    The time it takes to train up T2 small weapons is nothing compared to needing AWU V just to squeeze that last T2 gun on a ship- or resort to fitting modules/implants just to get it undocked.

    You can fly for the next year in nothing but frigates/destroyers (small weapons) and still not have mastered any given one's nuances, much less PvP as a whole. So the 8 or so days it'll take to get T2 small anything is miniscule.

    What you need is to spend the time in a small hull while going back over the core fitting skills, working on getting some to max. Then you will be able to mount better modules all around as well as run them longer.
    How's your Nav tree? If you're not rocking all V's, you are likely to be at my mercy as to fighting range- and quite possibly completely outside of even shiny T2 weapons' range while I blap you with T1's. All the T2 in the world won't help if you aren't landing hits to begin with. PvP just isn't rock, paper, scissors with T2 guns always winning.

    Also- you look at fights as a win/loss scenario only. What is it you're fighting for? Kill mails? Because that's stupid- risking a ship you might have done some PvE grind just to afford over a KM that no one will care about? After you have a couple, even YOU won't care about them anymore. Trust me on that. KM's are just what fleet members link in chat when they are particularly comical- and that's all they're good for. They are, as you allude to yourself, not much of an indicator of actual PvP prowess.

    Give PvP some scope and losing a ship doesn't mean losing in general. If you die while tackling some juicy target for your fleetmates to finish off, or defending your home system from invasion-- then you haven't simply 'lost'. I die all the time because I like to fly Dictors, and I am usually primaried off the field seconds into a fight....that's not losing. As long as I get my bubbles up and trap the enemy fleet- my death had meaning.
    Being immortal and having a hangar full of ships, I merely reship and return to the fight ASAP. Having something to fight for- keeps me undocking to die again
    Paul Otichoda
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #108 - 2013-08-13 20:01:19 UTC
    Lucas Kell wrote:
    Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
    Paul Otichoda wrote:
    I'm getting better

    My main problem is that I don't have the DPS to take out the enemy before my own shields go down. Thats why I feel tech 2 weapons are vital. And often I find myself forced to chose between afterburner/MWD or a medium shield extender. So I do with a small shield extender and an afterburner.


    You could have had T2 rockets by now if you'd had taken the time to train it, as well as Engineering V and Electronics V and related support skills to make that fitting easier. You've been playing and making excuses for that long now.

    And you were asking about getting a Tengu a while back -- just wait until you have to train Caldari Cruiser V. It's going to take you five years to get one; two or three months of actual training time and the rest, stalling and whining about how hard it is and how you can't do it.


    QFT.

    I've got a character started in early July ans she's a T2 small guns minmatar pilot already. If you just bit the bullet and took the training time to get youre chose weapon to T2, you can train to spec 4 in no time. The other 5s you need are Electroics, Engineering and Weapon Upgrades. With those to 5, and AWU to 4, your weapon spec to 4, your ship skill to 4, and a few other support skills to 4, you'd be finding it a lot easier.

    As a small Caldari, you can make a pretty decent passive shield tank with very few long trained skills. The 80/20 rule works for most of the skills you'd need.

    Mostly, when it comes down to it, you just need to put the effort in and learn what you need to learn. Ask people for advice and listen when it's given. Don't just dismiss everything as "Oh T2 takes too long, it should just be removed from the game" as that's never going to happen.


    http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paul_Otichoda

    so how's my fittings?
    Mr Morita
    Pandemic Horde Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #109 - 2013-08-13 20:03:00 UTC
    breacher is op
    Paul Otichoda
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #110 - 2013-08-13 20:08:32 UTC
    Alaric Faelen wrote:
    Also- you look at fights as a win/loss scenario only. What is it you're fighting for? Kill mails? Because that's stupid- risking a ship you might have done some PvE grind just to afford over a KM that no one will care about? After you have a couple, even YOU won't care about them anymore. Trust me on that. KM's are just what fleet members link in chat when they are particularly comical- and that's all they're good for. They are, as you allude to yourself, not much of an indicator of actual PvP prowess.


    At present? To prove to myself that I can actually kill a proper enemy (not a new player) but a veteran.

    And thats all I want.
    Solutio Letum
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #111 - 2013-08-13 20:31:21 UTC
    I flown and fly ceptors still

    The thing that scares me are missile ships, why? because they actually hit me, hear? HIT, that's what turrets don't do.
    chatgris
    Quantum Cats Syndicate
    Of Essence
    #112 - 2013-08-13 20:31:38 UTC
    Paul Otichoda wrote:
    Alaric Faelen wrote:
    Also- you look at fights as a win/loss scenario only. What is it you're fighting for? Kill mails? Because that's stupid- risking a ship you might have done some PvE grind just to afford over a KM that no one will care about? After you have a couple, even YOU won't care about them anymore. Trust me on that. KM's are just what fleet members link in chat when they are particularly comical- and that's all they're good for. They are, as you allude to yourself, not much of an indicator of actual PvP prowess.


    At present? To prove to myself that I can actually kill a proper enemy (not a new player) but a veteran.

    And thats all I want.


    To kill a veteran you need the following:

    a) Understand the mechanics of fighting
    b) Catch up in SP, or come with a counter fit

    That is pretty much it. Personally, I had my eye on pvp for quite a while, I spent 8 months training solid to be able to fly a rifter competently. First off, I got blapped pretty hard right away cause I didn't know my ass from my head in pvp. After I started figuring things out, there were definitely fights where it just came down to me having less SP than my opponent.

    But things are better now than then, less mirror matches since there are more useful frigs in the game than the rifter, and a bit of Merlin.
    Ciaphas Cyne
    Moira.
    #113 - 2013-08-13 20:57:43 UTC
    why all this complaining about tech II weapons? has the OP even looked at the marginal differences in mods? Not saying tech II isnt worth training but the gains are very small. Also, training up to tech II DOESNT TAKE THAT LONG. Think about how long it took you to hit lvl60 in WoW...and think about how exactly the same your lvl60 was to everyone else. The beauty of EVEs skill progression is that alot of it is lateral growth instead of vertical. You specialize into an area instead of just getting better all-round.

    I wont tell you to join EVE uni or RvB but i will tell you to play with other people. this game is meant for social players, or those with enough desire to roll many alts. alts suck, so play with friends.

    of course you could just go back to killing pandas with a glowing axe, but we all know thats not as fun.

    "buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

    • you
    Vordak Kallager
    Wilderness
    IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
    #114 - 2013-08-13 21:40:17 UTC
    This is a wonderful thread, amazing job OP, well ******* done. Bear

    Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
    Princess Bride
    SharkNado
    #115 - 2013-08-13 21:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
    Paul Otichoda wrote:
    Alaric Faelen wrote:
    Also- you look at fights as a win/loss scenario only. What is it you're fighting for? Kill mails? Because that's stupid- risking a ship you might have done some PvE grind just to afford over a KM that no one will care about? After you have a couple, even YOU won't care about them anymore. Trust me on that. KM's are just what fleet members link in chat when they are particularly comical- and that's all they're good for. They are, as you allude to yourself, not much of an indicator of actual PvP prowess.


    At present? To prove to myself that I can actually kill a proper enemy (not a new player) but a veteran. MOAR ISK from you fools who still don't realize I'm just scamming.

    And thats all I want.


    Fixed.

    Still waiting on a count of how much ISK you've conned from people with this forum spam, Paul.

    Inquiring minds want to know.

    Edit: Scratch that. You claim to have gotten nothing in one of your other numerous threads. Not sure I believe that, but, until someone comes forward and says they gave you ships or ISK the question is answered.

    http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
    Dorrann
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #116 - 2013-08-14 15:27:11 UTC
    I am noticing a slight improvement in Pauls posts, he's gone from Rockets suck in this thread, Blasters ACs are broken in another thread, and I think there was another about BSs sucking (L4 mission raven with an underskilled pilot essentially), but now it looks like the truth is permeating his cranium, most of the people here are trying to help him and he may actually be listening, at least in part .......

    THERE IS HOPE !!
    Logical Chaos
    Very Italian People
    The Initiative.
    #117 - 2013-08-14 20:14:15 UTC
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Rockets are an amazing weapon system in frig combat:
  • Near perfect damage application when inside scram web range without worry about tracking or range.
  • Low fitting requirements.

    • With that said, they are best used on a ship that can control range (which is more difficult for Caldari hulls). This allows you to negate your opponents turret dps (by either outranging or outtracking them).

    And as for FW.... It isn't the rampant use of t2 weapon systems that makes you ineffectual in the FW arena, it is the rampant use of Off Grid Boosters. A low-meta rocket kestrel/condor can easily compete with many t2 fit t1, t1, & faction frigate hulls. However, they cannot compete when your opponent is boosted... which often improves their ship by adding +50% EHP, +125% reps/s, +50% speed, +50% tackle range, etc. Boosters break the game, and FW is so full of booster alts that you really shouldn't PvP there unless you have them too.




    You are actually suggesting that people are tripple-boosting their Ship (Loki+Tengu+Legion) at the same time.
    FuzzyButt
    The Lazy Crabs
    #118 - 2013-08-15 09:33:31 UTC
    Logical Chaos wrote:
    Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

    Rockets are an amazing weapon system in frig combat:
  • Near perfect damage application when inside scram web range without worry about tracking or range.
  • Low fitting requirements.

    • With that said, they are best used on a ship that can control range (which is more difficult for Caldari hulls). This allows you to negate your opponents turret dps (by either outranging or outtracking them).

    And as for FW.... It isn't the rampant use of t2 weapon systems that makes you ineffectual in the FW arena, it is the rampant use of Off Grid Boosters. A low-meta rocket kestrel/condor can easily compete with many t2 fit t1, t1, & faction frigate hulls. However, they cannot compete when your opponent is boosted... which often improves their ship by adding +50% EHP, +125% reps/s, +50% speed, +50% tackle range, etc. Boosters break the game, and FW is so full of booster alts that you really shouldn't PvP there unless you have them too.




    You are actually suggesting that people are tripple-boosting their Ship (Loki+Tengu+Legion) at the same time.




    boosters are getting a pretty nerf soon it looks like too.

    But the fact that isk can help your ship and yourself is always gonna be there.

    People talk about boosters a lot but then you also got the 2.2 billion isk we can spend on implants. for example giving your ship 55% or more bonus too Armor. Those who can afford that can always roll with a massive advantage =3

    now you can tank a fleet solo tho with Tengu + Crystals in a Hawk with Dual medium ASB... So OP ^^
    Bael II
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #119 - 2013-08-17 11:58:24 UTC
    10/10, can't even believe everyone responds to this guy Lol
    Aesheera
    Doomheim
    #120 - 2013-08-28 10:29:59 UTC
    Paul Otichoda wrote:
    David Devant wrote:
    Paul Otichoda wrote:
    Things I done said about dem rockits
    Go get better.


    why is that what everyone says

    "Get better noob" or "go join EVEuni"

    nobody says anything else, they just say your an idiot and should go away. in someways this community is the worse I've been in.

    I would try to get better but it takes me half and hour to find 1v1 frigate combat in FW space I die in 5 seconds and then have to spend another half and hour going back to a trade hub, fitting another ship, going out to another system, finding another fight, die in 5 seconds, do it again. The preperation takes up so much of my time that I never get a chance to do learn anything because I die in 10 seconds.

    TEST server does wonders.

    - I think my passion is misinterpreted as anger sometimes. And I don't think people are ready for the message that I'm delivering, and delivering with a sense of violent love.