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Why nerf high sec?

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Josef Djugashvilis
#301 - 2013-07-22 08:15:10 UTC
Dear baltec1, I can hear your constant whining all the way from hi-sec, please stop.

This is not a signature.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#302 - 2013-07-22 08:18:37 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear baltec1, I can hear your constant whining all the way from hi-sec, please stop.


See, there we go with that abuse of the word whining again.

I am simply pointing out facts that show that there is an inbalance. If I was whining I wouldn't be using fact or real numbers and just be spouting nonsense like the frighter gank whiners and the people who think flying a mining barge in empire is dangerous.
John Bishop
Forgot to repair
#303 - 2013-07-22 08:22:56 UTC
eve is a sandbox. but it isnt your sanbox. its the sanbox at the park down town. full of good and bad kids... some kids have overprotective parents (highsec players) others dont (null sec players) and some kids dont care they will ruin your day either way.


high sec doesn't need fixed or Nerfed.

eve is eve. it is chaos in harmony
Josef Djugashvilis
#304 - 2013-07-22 08:26:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Dear baltec1, I can hear your constant whining all the way from hi-sec, please stop.


See, there we go with that abuse of the word whining again.

I am simply pointing out facts that show that there is an inbalance. If I was whining I wouldn't be using fact or real numbers and just be spouting nonsense like the frighter gank whiners and the people who think flying a mining barge in empire is dangerous.


You are being hard on me good sir.

Since I have come back to the game, your constant whining about hi-sec is one of the most constant features of the forums.

If h-sec is so bad, stay out of it.

If null does not pay enough, then ask your corpies for advice on how to make more isk.

Folk who make their isk in hi-sec, as you have said you do, whilst claiming to be null-sec players are, in my view hypocrites.

I run missions in h-sec to make isk to lose in lo-sec and null pvp, but I never make the mistake of claiming to be a null-sec tough guy.

This is not a signature.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#305 - 2013-07-22 08:27:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Do hisec rewards need a nerf?

Or is it more that hisec risks need a buff?


Nailed it


Note that risk = cost of trying x chance of failure

So to buff risk at the same time as keeping the economist happy, the cost of trying needs to go up significantly. Thus my suggestions to move industry to player control, increase costs of NPC facilities, reduce availability of NPC facilities, and thus enhance the chance of failure since player owned infrastructure can be attacked.

But to do that we need an overhaul of POSes. On the flip side, it puts industry in all space on even footing, with NPC facilities as a fallback for the hypothetical "reboot EVE from scratch" scenario (which is a catch-all for "this group of players got curb-stomped").

Day 0 Advice for New Players
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#306 - 2013-07-22 08:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


You are being hard on me good sir.

Since I have come back to the game, your constant whining about hi-sec is one of the most constant features of the forums.

If h-sec is so bad, stay out of it.

If null does not pay enough, then ask your corpies for advice on how to make more isk.

Folk who make their isk in hi-sec, as you have said you do, whilst claiming to be null-sec players are, in my view hypocrites.

I run missions in h-sec to make isk to lose in lo-sec and null pvp, but I never make the mistake of claiming to be a null-sec tough guy.


The only reason we are in high sec is because its the better option, its not hypocrapsy its just us useing the best options available to us. Null has been nerfed for years while high sec has been buffed. What we want is for high sec to nerfed in the same way null has been so that we can have risk vs reward balanced out again so that null is the best option for us.

Give us a reason to live fully in null and we will live there.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#307 - 2013-07-22 08:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginseng Jita
baltec1 wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


You are being hard on me good sir.

Since I have come back to the game, your constant whining about hi-sec is one of the most constant features of the forums.

If h-sec is so bad, stay out of it.

If null does not pay enough, then ask your corpies for advice on how to make more isk.

Folk who make their isk in hi-sec, as you have said you do, whilst claiming to be null-sec players are, in my view hypocrites.

I run missions in h-sec to make isk to lose in lo-sec and null pvp, but I never make the mistake of claiming to be a null-sec tough guy.


The only reason we are in high sec is because its the better option, its not hypocrapsy its just us useing the best options available to us. Null has been nerfed for years while high sec has been buffed. What we want is for high sec to nerfed in the same way null has been so that we can have risk vs reward balanced out again so that null is the best option for us.

Give us a reason to live fully in null and we will live there.


OMG -high sec buffed? Let's see, recently, mission rewards have been nerfed in high. Mission AI has been improved - so you lose more drones, and you have a greater risk of getting warp jammed. Ice Mining has been nerfed. Mining rewards have been nerfed in high, increased in low and null. New Criminal Status put into place - now not only do you have to worry about Concorde but everyone in high sec. That's just for starters.

Quit your whining...and play the game. If it is too hard - go play Hello Kitty.

BTW - null is not suppose to be easy. You are rewarded for playing there - you just have to have a lot of people backing you up. If you think you can solo in null - you are not very smart.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#308 - 2013-07-22 09:01:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Numbers show that Null sec is where the vast bulk of PVP deaths have happened on the order of 7 to 1 against high sec. Of high sec losses 8 die to pve for every 1 pvp death and most of those pve deaths are from the likes of condors in tutorial missions.



I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#309 - 2013-07-22 09:09:14 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:


OMG -high sec buffed? Let's see, recently, mission rewards have been nerfed in high. Mission AI has been improved - so you lose more drones, and you have a greater risk of getting warp jammed. Ice Mining has been nerfed. Mining rewards have been nerfed in high, increased in low and null. New Criminal Status put into place - now not only do you have to worry about Concorde but everyone in high sec. That's just for starters.

Quit your whining...and play the game. If it is too hard - go play Hello Kitty.

BTW - null is not suppose to be easy. You are rewarded for playing there - you just have to have a lot of people backing you up. If you think you can solo in null - you are not very smart.


Mission rewards in null and low were also nerfed. Mission AI was improved in all PVE so it also hit low and null. New criminal change have no impact upon upon most PVE activities aside from looters who are now flagged to everyone rather than just the victims corp so in effect, thats made life easier for the missioner.

What you have missed out is the change to agents that resulted in all level 4 agents going to +20 while we saw multiple nerfs to anoms in null sec. The addition of incursions to high sec beats null sec income from anoms hands down. There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#310 - 2013-07-22 09:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
baltec1 wrote:
The only reason we are in high sec is because its the better option, its not hypocrapsy its just us useing the best options available to us. Null has been nerfed for years while high sec has been buffed. What we want is for high sec to nerfed in the same way null has been so that we can have risk vs reward balanced out again so that null is the best option for us.

Give us a reason to live fully in null and we will live there.


This proves everything, you obviously have no ******* clue about null at all - this explains your continuous whining over hisec.

so what do you want then? you want hisec to be nerfed so that null activities could have higher value? (not that they aint today)

now then.. you would then go into null (you say we.. so I think it's your corp and or alliance - yes?)
then everyone goes there, everyone hunts you, everyone steals your rock or mission... what do you do then?


me as a 0.0 resident.. only good thing about it wold be maybe more targets - and thats maybe because tons of hisec chars are alts.

this hisec nerf idea is only good on paper but in the end it would up costs of all ships, fits.. everything - you'd have to farm 3x more to afford pvp.

you obviously cant be so stupid to think that hisec nerf would make life cheaper?!

baltec1 wrote:
What you have missed out is the change to agents that resulted in all level 4 agents going to +20 while we saw multiple nerfs to anoms in null sec. The addition of incursions to high sec beats null sec income from anoms hands down. There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


what the hell are you on about? how many times I already have asked you to tell me hoe many ppl do incursions?

do you have any god damn idea?

TELLME how is 5x40 and couple of smaller fleets AFFECTING YOUR NULL? are you out of your mind?
For ex one of them is me, and it affects me so I could afford PVP in null - if there werent incursions I'd be in null only, wouldnt have hisec char and I'd do still fine.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#311 - 2013-07-22 09:21:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


That's why null rat killing is so low.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#312 - 2013-07-22 09:28:03 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Numbers show that Null sec is where the vast bulk of PVP deaths have happened on the order of 7 to 1 against high sec. Of high sec losses 8 die to pve for every 1 pvp death and most of those pve deaths are from the likes of condors in tutorial missions.



I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


From December 5th, 2007 until November 29th, 2011

High sec PVP losses 1,974,022

Low sec PVP losses 4,126,911

Nul PVP losses 7,061,988

You can find more info from the CCP Diagoras blogs.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#313 - 2013-07-22 09:28:19 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
[quote=baltec1]I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


Most Violent Systems (High-sec, last 24h):

  1. Couster
  2. Uitra
  3. Jita
  4. Clellinon
  5. Deepari
  6. Hadaugago
  7. Josameto
  8. Akiainavas
  9. Jouvulen
  10. Trossere


So out of the top 10, 3 are not tutorial systems. In Tutorial systems, players will be losing at least two ships due to missions — one where they drive an unfitted condor into a space station and blow it up, a second one where they are ambushed by a large squad of NPCs with webs, scrams, dampers, etc.

But then again, Jita and Uitra together more than make up for the tutorial systems in terms of volume, so just two hisec systems provide more kills per day than the top 3 nullsec systems. The number per system in nullsec drops very rapidly, compared to the number of violences in hisec.

So baltec1 does have a point (the statistics include mandatory PvE losses) but I'm not sure his point really matters, since the volume of losses outside tutorial systems is also quite high. Of course poddings in nullsec wipe hisec poddings right of the charts, but now we're just playing the cherry-picking game of "my thing is bigger than your thing" mixed in wiht a bit of "no true Scotsman."

Day 0 Advice for New Players
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#314 - 2013-07-22 09:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


That's why null rat killing is so low.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


he cannot make anything out of dotlan stats I think... we could go on forever here.

1 day later he will make new post somewhere "nerf hisec" and it all continues


Nul PVP losses 7,061,988 <- also this? do you know what this consists of? it's shuttles, cheap ****, cruisers - it's nothing compared to hi/lo sec losses if you take in ISK factor.

hell.. I've contributed alot to increase this number :D and what was it? it's stupid gatecamp or blob - its boring actually and onesided. Got drake BPO yesterday, ganked some random dude at gate who was trying to get stuff out of system that we took over.

again.. was it fun? no.. I'd rather do incursions in a 40 man fleet and be social than strool at gatebubble 6 god damn hours like fishing in empty lake.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#315 - 2013-07-22 09:35:17 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
[quote=baltec1]I think you are pulling the numbers out of your arse mate. Look that the recent statistics from Dotlan. Look at where the most ships and pods are destroyed - low? null? How about high sec...yes mate - high sec.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


Most Violent Systems (High-sec, last 24h):

  1. Couster
  2. Uitra
  3. Jita
  4. Clellinon
  5. Deepari
  6. Hadaugago
  7. Josameto
  8. Akiainavas
  9. Jouvulen
  10. Trossere


So out of the top 10, 3 are not tutorial systems. In Tutorial systems, players will be losing at least two ships due to missions — one where they drive an unfitted condor into a space station and blow it up, a second one where they are ambushed by a large squad of NPCs with webs, scrams, dampers, etc.

But then again, Jita and Uitra together more than make up for the tutorial systems in terms of volume, so just two hisec systems provide more kills per day than the top 3 nullsec systems. The number per system in nullsec drops very rapidly, compared to the number of violences in hisec.

So baltec1 does have a point (the statistics include mandatory PvE losses) but I'm not sure his point really matters, since the volume of losses outside tutorial systems is also quite high. Of course poddings in nullsec wipe hisec poddings right of the charts, but now we're just playing the cherry-picking game of "my thing is bigger than your thing" mixed in wiht a bit of "no true Scotsman."



These are whole regions.

Most violent regions (24 hours)
Ships / Pods 0.0 Region
1. Map Fountain 2856 / 2448
2. Map Syndicate 754 / 316
3. Map Providence 651 / 264
4. Map Curse 555 / 322
5. Map UUA-F4 826 / 0
6. Map Stain 297 / 272
7. Map Delve 185 / 353
8. Map Catch 273 / 228
9. Map Deklein 193 / 248
10. Map Pure Blind 225 / 211

Ships / Pods Empire Region
1. Map The Forge 4260 / 901
2. Map Essence 2755 / 311
3. Map Domain 2318 / 529
4. Map Lonetrek 2476 / 343
5. Map Sinq Laison 2275 / 477
6. Map Metropolis 2249 / 470
7. Map Heimatar 2213 / 324
8. Map Black Rise 1960 / 317
9. Map Placid 1836 / 361
10. Map Verge Vendor 1920 / 195

NPC rats do not kill pods - players do.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#316 - 2013-07-22 09:37:20 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


That's why null rat killing is so low.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


Compared to high sec, it is.

People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#317 - 2013-07-22 09:38:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


That's why null rat killing is so low.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


Compared to high sec, it is.

People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it.


Then do not play in null if it is too hard for you. That simple. Many people play there fine. Have been for years.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#318 - 2013-07-22 09:42:31 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


That's why null rat killing is so low.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


Compared to high sec, it is.

People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it.


Then do not play in null if it is too hard for you. That simple. Many people play there fine. Have been for years.



he secretly wants more ppl to null so he could have more targets to shoot at. It's theonly reason tbh :D

he wont admit it by any means and defends "nerf hisec" statement blindly and not even thinking about what it causes... some random idiot just told him that "oooh if hisec would be dirt poor place then we would have alot more pvp in null"

it's just wrong - wont happen.
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#319 - 2013-07-22 09:44:20 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
There is no reason to grind up isk from rats in null over high sec.


That's why null rat killing is so low.

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats


Compared to high sec, it is.

People are still going to do anoms same as how peple will continue to go belt ratting, be it because they dont have the alts to spare or due to wardecs or simply not caring. The problem is that high sec rewards are on par with null which means the risks of low and null simply are not worth it.


Then do not play in null if it is too hard for you. That simple. Many people play there fine. Have been for years.



he secretly wants more ppl to null so he could have more targets to shoot at. It's theonly reason tbh :D

he wont admit it by any means and defends "nerf hisec" statement blindly and not even thinking about what it causes... some random idiot just told him that "oooh if hisec would be dirt poor place then we would have alot more pvp in null"

it's just wrong - wont happen.


I know this, you know this, and many others know this...he is either trolling or is really rather dim witted.
Hypercake Mix
#320 - 2013-07-22 09:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Hypercake Mix
The right kind of community to make null thrive doesn't exist here. Maybe the Chinese over on Serenity are doing null better?

I mean... if null is actually fine in theory and we just fail at it in practice, is it really imbalance?