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Why nerf high sec?

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Julius Priscus
#241 - 2013-07-21 14:56:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I do.


Y u moan then? Dont want to make good iskies in hisec to feed ur pvp?


I want to make my isk in null sec but with the rewards as they are in high sec there is just no point in taking the bigger risks of null. This is wrong, you should be rewarded for taking on the bigger risks and effort.


then ask to buff null, not nerf high...

btw I dunno man but in legit corp and alliance there is no prob making ridiculous amounts of money in null - only downside is when some big war happens and you cant make money, instead you got to pew pew

but then again decent corps/alliances provide you pvp ships anyway so... dunno man.


stupid moan about hisec everywhere, if u ask me...


We cant buff null because that would inject too much isk into the system.



A buff does not mean its an isk injection into the game..
ccp does not have to buff null by making more isk faucets
CCP could make it so that the plex's drop more ded loot.. then the isk gets moved around not "tapped into the game.
Arec Bardwin
#242 - 2013-07-21 15:23:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

We cant buff null because that would inject too much isk into the system.
The way to do it would be to add a resource faucet, exploitable by solo/small groups of players. What kind of commodity these resources would manufacture into, I have no idea.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#243 - 2013-07-21 15:24:00 UTC
TBH without Highsec a huge part of eve would die and that would be the fantastic economy dont get my wrong sure there would also be a functional market if there were no or less profitable highsec but not in the rich as we know it currently.

In my opinion there is no problem with the current mechanic, i believe people who dont want to fight should be part of the game, like all the pvp focused Corps and Allys are.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2013-07-21 15:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Manfred Hideous
Julius Priscus wrote:
Bill Overbeck wrote:
I don't understand all this hate. Especially when it seems most of sov null sec seems to be high sec but with players as Concord. And it changes hands every once in a while.


when someone can happily make more isk in high sec than null/low sec... something is not right.

I know for a fact one can make a easy 1-3+b isk a week in high sec. yes I know possible to do that in null as well.

imo.. make al combat missions in high sec anti-faction missions. if you want bounties goto low/null sec for it.



I'm actually fine with most of HS (I'd like to see war costs go down, though). What is really needed is a null buff. Putting mission agents as an option to player owned stations would provide more reliable isk for the basic scrub (with the appropriate payouts for it being in null) personal income. You could tie the agent level to upgrades to military / indy levels.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#245 - 2013-07-21 16:08:27 UTC
Quote:


A buff does not mean its an isk injection into the game..
ccp does not have to buff null by making more isk faucets
CCP could make it so that the plex's drop more ded loot.. then the isk gets moved around not "tapped into the game.



The more you flood the market with these thing the less they will be worth.

Over the last few years null isk faucets have been nerfed into the ground while high sec has for the most part escaped unchanged. This has resulted in the current imbalance. A drop in high sec income along the lines of what null has taken would go a very long way to balance the game.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2013-07-21 16:39:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


A buff does not mean its an isk injection into the game..
ccp does not have to buff null by making more isk faucets
CCP could make it so that the plex's drop more ded loot.. then the isk gets moved around not "tapped into the game.



The more you flood the market with these thing the less they will be worth.

Over the last few years null isk faucets have been nerfed into the ground while high sec has for the most part escaped unchanged. This has resulted in the current imbalance. A drop in high sec income along the lines of what null has taken would go a very long way to balance the game.



In fact hisec got bufffed with the new social skills and all agents being set to +20, those agents used to be pretty much exclusive to low sec. Simply moving all of the level 4s to low would be kind of amusing. I doubt that it will ever happen though, the carebears completely loose it over that sort of thing.
Julius Priscus
#247 - 2013-07-21 16:43:53 UTC
Onictus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Quote:


A buff does not mean its an isk injection into the game..
ccp does not have to buff null by making more isk faucets
CCP could make it so that the plex's drop more ded loot.. then the isk gets moved around not "tapped into the game.



The more you flood the market with these thing the less they will be worth.

Over the last few years null isk faucets have been nerfed into the ground while high sec has for the most part escaped unchanged. This has resulted in the current imbalance. A drop in high sec income along the lines of what null has taken would go a very long way to balance the game.



In fact hisec got bufffed with the new social skills and all agents being set to +20, those agents used to be pretty much exclusive to low sec. Simply moving all of the level 4s to low would be kind of amusing. I doubt that it will ever happen though, the carebears completely loose it over that sort of thing.



not exactly all agents got buffed so hs/ls & ns agents all got buffed.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#248 - 2013-07-21 17:11:16 UTC
Julius Priscus wrote:

A buff does not mean its an isk injection into the game..
ccp does not have to buff null by making more isk faucets
CCP could make it so that the plex's drop more ded loot.. then the isk gets moved around not "tapped into the game.



any kind of loot = isk
isk = stuff

your point is invalid.

Also that story "I want to live in 0.0 and make more than hisec players, because I live in null and risk......."

that story is only cool story.

If you are so bad that you cannot make more in 0.0 then you problably get blown up in hisec incursion also... you just have to be so bad. really.


for ex.. I do incursions in highsec.. why? its entertaining.. alot more than 0.0 if you ask me. Yes once in a while pvp in null is cool also but often its one sided and boredom in general.

incursions is social activity.. alot more than being in 0.

I could do incursions in 0, but it's problematic - one afket in system and everyonefuckingoes mental.. it's just bad.

I do plexes, I rat once in a while.. I could mine - lol perfect mining skills on pvp char :D:D
good easy money and risk? almost 0.


imo hisec incursions keep eve alive for me.. it allows me to pvp and same time it's entertaining because of players and community.

if hisec would get nerfed to the ground and I wouldnt be able to make isk to feed my pvp char.. I would unsub at once and say byebye to eve.


oh and before you all now go berserk... I do hisec incursions only because I cba race for plexes and do all this boring 0.0 **** what is supposed to be pve and 0.0 incursions 95% if the time aint going to be happen...
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#249 - 2013-07-21 17:33:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
The potential for better reward is there but was NEVER garanteed by CCP. Maybe it's too hard to achive but saying it is impossible is stupid. Yes everything is at a much higher risk in low/null but the potential is still there to earn more than in High. It require more effort on top of the bigger risk but CCP enver said higher risk would not give higher reward directly. Unless you can find quotes from CCP saying there should not be additionnal work over the high risk, then it's still working as intended.

The risk is higher and the potential for higher reward is there.

This is true on paper and as long as we only discuss shooting red crosses. In reality, with the unavoidable interruptions and the inherent risks, the margin shrinks sharply.

If we're talking about industry, however, the exact opposite is true: the risks are higher, and the rewards are mechanically locked at much lower levels. Investing billions (or even trillions) will only ever yield something that is much worse in every way than what you get for free (both ISK-free and risk-free) in highsec.


CCP never said it would really work. As I said, they only ever said the high risk of low/null would enable better rewards. They didn't way "Go to low/null and more isk will be showered on you.". All the interruption you get are part of a risk reducing protocol people use. You can't really have a space where it is lawful to shoot anybody on sight and grind stuff safely in the same palce. You will always get interruptions or you will keep grinding and take the additional risk to continue roling ticks.

Technically, 5 time more risk for 10isk per hours bonus would still fit in the very definition CCP gave. You can't say it's aginst the design unless you prove CCP meant it to be different. Nobody has yet been able to prove that the ratio is not exactly where CCP want it to be. For all we know, maybe they always though low and null should be way more risky AND harder to pull off.

Industry on the other hand is completely broken. They would imo need to add a **** ton of slots in null (more per stations or cheaper sation) AND (yes both at the same time becuse both are required imo) increase the cost of production lines in NPC stations so it at least offset the cost of running the station in the first place.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#250 - 2013-07-21 17:37:57 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:


oh and before you all now go berserk... I do hisec incursions only because I cba race for plexes and do all this boring 0.0 **** what is supposed to be pve and 0.0 incursions 95% if the time aint going to be happen...


You will still be able to make enough isk to pvp. Incursions have already been nerfed hard in high sec, maby they could do with a little more but probably not. Ice mining just got altered to make 0.0 mining worth doing and exploration the same treatment with PI also offereing better results in null.

Its the missions that now need to be looked at and altered to take into account the income nerfs null sec has taken over the last few years and rebalanced. Ore mining will no doubt be changed too, hopefully to the same system as ice.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2013-07-21 19:08:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:


oh and before you all now go berserk... I do hisec incursions only because I cba race for plexes and do all this boring 0.0 **** what is supposed to be pve and 0.0 incursions 95% if the time aint going to be happen...


You will still be able to make enough isk to pvp. Incursions have already been nerfed hard in high sec, maby they could do with a little more but probably not. Ice mining just got altered to make 0.0 mining worth doing and exploration the same treatment with PI also offereing better results in null.

Its the missions that now need to be looked at and altered to take into account the income nerfs null sec has taken over the last few years and rebalanced. Ore mining will no doubt be changed too, hopefully to the same system as ice.


but why should they nerf it?

aint it ok as it is?

lvl4 mission running is not more profitable than just plain ratting in 0.0
mining is not more profitable in hisec than 0.0

incursions are not as profitable as whole alliance in some deep 0.0 can do
incursions are ran by maybe 3-5 fleets, and then some small fleets for small income incursions. It's not like whole eve profits so insanely from it that it somehow affects you.


I really dont see your problem here and you just wont give any reasoning.

you ppl just say "ow gawd cant you see problem here? making more money in hisec than 0"

what the **** are you on about?


the only reason you all moan here is actually to get ppl into 0.. so you could have more targets to shoot at.
TELL ME THAT IM WRONG!

I'm in a same boat as you.. i want more targets too, but IT AINT going to happen this way because as you see.. I would just unsub my hisec incursion char, thats it.

did you just got +1 target? NO!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#252 - 2013-07-21 19:24:32 UTC
Quote:
the only reason you all moan here is actually to get ppl into 0.. so you could have more targets to shoot at.
TELL ME THAT IM WRONG!


You're wrong. I live in highsec, spend a lot of time in lowsec, dabble in wormholes, and my main was long ago chased out of null.

For me, it has nothing to do with wanting more targets. But I think the safety obsessed, risk averse mindset of (too many) highsec players is disgusting, and some nerfs would go a long way toward waking them up to the realities of the game.

It's also plain for me to see that lowsec has almost nothing going for it, and that kind of disparity cannot be ignored when the question of why lowsec isn't populated comes up.

And as far as industrial opportunities go, I don't think anyone would argue the disparity is fair, appropriate, or necessary. (perhaps the latter, but only insofar as without it, nullsec, lowsec and w-space at large would cease to continue allowing highsec to exist as it has. But that's a major digression from the topic)

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2013-07-21 19:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
so.. what would you do there differently than at the moment in high?
only shoot at ppl, amirite? also obviously Bear


To fix whole 0.0.. CCP needs to redo whole PVP aspect of game.

change insurances, anything but T1 is pointless to insure.
change warp scamrs/disruptors
change cloaks

only then you will see rise of PVP in this game again - until then GL watching alliance tournament or blobing some random ass boring tower.

BUT aparently CCP likes people to have 90+ accounts.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#254 - 2013-07-21 19:57:22 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
so.. what would you do there differently than at the moment in high?
only shoot at ppl, amirite? also obviously Bear


To fix whole 0.0.. CCP needs to redo whole PVP aspect of game.

change insurances, anything but T1 is pointless to insure.
change warp scamrs/disruptors
change cloaks

only then you will see rise of PVP in this game again - until then GL watching alliance tournament or blobing some random ass boring tower.

BUT aparently CCP likes people to have 90+ accounts.


Rofl, you got some serious tinfoil hat on with the whole "90+ accounts" nonsense.

Insurance is supposed to be that way. Yes, some of the costs on T2 stuff needs fixing, but insurance as a whole is not a very healthy concept for the game.

What about scrams and disruptors? What beef could you possibly have with that?

And ok, what about cloaks?

So, basically, we need to change (nerf) some of the only ways to: Sneak up on people. Hold people there once you do catch them. And buff insurance, so losses are meaningless.

And you think this will somehow make it so we can see "the rise of PVP in this game again"?

What are you on?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#255 - 2013-07-21 19:58:07 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:



the only reason you all moan here is actually to get ppl into 0.. so you could have more targets to shoot at.
TELL ME THAT IM WRONG!



You are wrong.

This honestly isn't about targets, we have plenty of them. This is about balance. Right now, high sec offers the best option for most people when it comes to making isk and mining. 60 mil/hr is easily doable in high sec missions which is not far from what the average line member will be doing in null anoms but with high sec you can do that 60 mil every hour with no enforced downtime other than when the servers go down and you don't have to compete with other people in the system.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#256 - 2013-07-21 20:14:49 UTC
Daniel Jackson wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:
Bill Overbeck wrote:
I don't understand all this hate. Especially when it seems most of sov null sec seems to be high sec but with players as Concord. And it changes hands every once in a while.


when someone can happily make more isk in high sec than null/low sec... something is not right.

I know for a fact one can make a easy 1-3+b isk a week in high sec. yes I know possible to do that in null as well.

imo.. make al combat missions in high sec anti-faction missions. if you want bounties goto low/null sec for it.

the thing is, you SHOULD make more money in citys (highsec) rather then in the country (null sec) cause thats how real life is


But if it were a real city concord would take 45 minutes to arrive to a crime scene.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#257 - 2013-07-21 20:21:16 UTC
CanI haveyourstuff wrote:
[the only reason you all moan here is actually to get ppl into 0.. so you could have more targets to shoot at.
TELL ME THAT IM WRONG!

You're wrong.

I am one of those would-be targets, and the reason I'm asking for a change is because the current imbalance renders large portions of the game meaningless. Players who invest time and effort (and ISK) into building something should get more than those who go for the free, effortless, and immediately available — the investment needs to mean something, or the investment mechanics are rendered useless.

Living and investing in null should — no, make that must — be a reasonable choice. As long as the answer is “yes, you could, but that would be retarded since you get more for less in highsec”, the choice is not reasonable.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#258 - 2013-07-21 20:44:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I am all for making the butthurt potential in null even better.


Please CCP, make is so, that more people invest in Nullsec so that incursions into nullsec will bring even more tears.


Most of the argument here is based on making highsec less useful and nullsec more like highsec. What's the gain? The nerd-raging overlord of nullsec get to bring the same carebears out there, but they will contend with the promise of safety. All the overlords get out of this in the long run is ePeener of "I control an alliance of X number of players".

Big deal.

Nullsec is better off a no-mans land, not some paved over strip-malled space with the only differences being it's a player who "owns" it and you "have to be blue".

Nullsec should not be taken hostage like this. This is why we encourage all new players to head out there and start shooting people in the face. This is a PVP game to which we have brought cotton-candy stripmall corporatism and a kind of feudalism.

And people pay for SOV.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
CanI haveyourstuff
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2013-07-21 21:12:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CanI haveyourstuff
you guys obviously suck at null and thats it :D

if it werent incursions I wouldnt have hisec char at all.. the money is nice and easy, feeds my pvp but it's not that good now..
I just like 40+ man fleet and doing stuff together. Null is not that social as many ppl say.. "PVP ... game as it's meant to be" lol yea right.

anyway with hisec nerf I could do money just aswell in null but I would be bored for sure.




what beef i have with scrams and cloaks? well these are tools in eve that scare away most people from doing pvp.
people cannot take RISK, you either die or win - thats it. It's not taking risk and trying...

ofc you can take the risk and try to win but when another ship enters grid, it's problably ****** situation and there is no way out.
thats why ppl dont pvp.

warp scram should be tool to disable mwd but have some amount of time when it can apply warp disable strength. And you could recharge that only by turning module off.

warp disrupt should do same thing but at longer range while not shutting down mwd.


whoala.. there, almost half of PVP in eve got just fixed! why?

because now anyone can take that ******* RISK and they have chance to bail out if fight gets fishy.. that risk taker could warp off to lick wounds and fight again in no time, play mind games..do whatever. but not to go 30j to fit new ship........

ofcourse when opponent uses scram/disrupt wisely then there's certain death waiting.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#260 - 2013-07-21 21:20:09 UTC
Quote:
if it werent incursions I wouldnt have hisec char at all.. the money is nice and easy, feeds my pvp


And that's precisely the problem.

Quote:
what beef i have with scrams and cloaks? well these are tools in eve that scare away most people from doing pvp.
people cannot take RISK, you either die or win - thats it. It's not taking risk and trying...

ofc you can take the risk and try to win but when another ship enters grid, it's problably ****** situation and there is no way out.
thats why ppl dont pvp.


So, basically, you want scrams removed because you think the chickenshits deserve to get to play, too? Not enough no in the world to express my thoughts about that. My command of the English language is not sufficient to tell you how wrong you are, and I have a VAST vocabulary.

So I'll just say this. The people who can't stomach a loss, and don't even try for fear of failure? Those people are the food for the real EVE players.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.