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removal of the one-man corp anti-wardec exploit and wardec dodging in general.
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Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#1 - 2013-07-16 20:29:51 UTC
This is a problematic exploit that was no doubt requested by players sick of getting wardecced, which is a way of life in EVE.

However, it is getting out of control as several characters, most famously James 315 (his employment history is proof of this exploit if compared against wardecs sent against his character and the corp named) use it to avoid the concequences that is boasted all over EVE.

For people using this exploit, predominantly one-man corporations they are able to harass, grief and gank without the worry of a wardec thanks to the ability to simply close and instantly open an identical corp, therefore nullifying the wardec and costing the deccer 50 million isk and then continuing with the actions that caused the wardec.

This exploit needs to be removed or modified so players cannot instantly close and reset their corp without some kind of penalty that would actively discourage such action. Players that anger other playermade corps need to take their medicine and equally must also be able to attack other corps without the annoyance of their target simply resetting their corp and avoiding the dec.

This exploit's removal may make high sec a little more dangerous for the corps that are just beginning, but thats EVE for you. People will always want to kick over your sandcastle or burn your corp, be you just a small time mining corp or James 315 himself.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2013-07-16 21:02:38 UTC
It sounds like the war dec is not the right tool to use against a small group or single individual then.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#3 - 2013-07-16 21:07:36 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
It sounds like the war dec is not the right tool to use against a small group or single individual then.


People like James hide behind CONCORD and exploits like this. If a player, even a single player corp messes up and pisses off a alliance like Black Legion (and James recently used the exploit I mentioned to avoid a wardec from that very alliance) he should be able to take his medicine and his ship losses like a man, not be able to use that exploit like a coward and simply carry on like nothing happened.

He might as well be playing WoW or be hiding in a NPC corp otherwise.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#4 - 2013-07-16 21:15:01 UTC
The way I see it if a One Man Corp wants to war dec an Alliance then more power to them. If the Alliance can't handle one little troublesome gnat then maybe they shouldn't be in an alliance to begin with.
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#5 - 2013-07-16 21:17:55 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
The way I see it if a One Man Corp wants to war dec an Alliance then more power to them. If the Alliance can't handle one little troublesome gnat then maybe they shouldn't be in an alliance to begin with.


You misread...it was Black legion who wardecced after James 315 harassed their high sec training corps industrial operation and James 315 who instantly used the exploit to didge the wardec in literally a minute and continued.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2013-07-16 21:25:47 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
DrysonBennington wrote:
The way I see it if a One Man Corp wants to war dec an Alliance then more power to them. If the Alliance can't handle one little troublesome gnat then maybe they shouldn't be in an alliance to begin with.


You misread...it was Black legion who wardecced after James 315 harassed their high sec training corps industrial operation and James 315 who instantly used the exploit to didge the wardec in literally a minute and continued.

What exactly was he able to do?

Did he figure out a way to avoid sec status penalties?

I seriously don't play enough in high sec to know the details of his harassment.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#7 - 2013-07-16 21:30:01 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Capt Lynch wrote:
DrysonBennington wrote:
The way I see it if a One Man Corp wants to war dec an Alliance then more power to them. If the Alliance can't handle one little troublesome gnat then maybe they shouldn't be in an alliance to begin with.


You misread...it was Black legion who wardecced after James 315 harassed their high sec training corps industrial operation and James 315 who instantly used the exploit to didge the wardec in literally a minute and continued.

What exactly was he able to do?

Did he figure out a way to avoid sec status penalties?

I seriously don't play enough in high sec to know the details of his harassment.



James 315 is that minerbumper idiot who thinks he controlls High sec. He bumped all their ice miners away mid cycle and tried to extort them...when they wardecced him, he simply carried out the exploit, avoiding the wardec, keeping his corp and costing Black Legion 50 million isk...all in the space of 1 minute...and he can carry this exploit out as many times as he wants if he is again wardecced
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#8 - 2013-07-16 21:54:43 UTC
Agreed, the war dec mechanic is broken in lots of ways and is clearly used by people who wont dare attack you in low or null, because they need and crave the protection of high sec to roll out their neutral rr alt. It sickens me.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#9 - 2013-07-16 22:02:23 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Agreed, the war dec mechanic is broken in lots of ways and is clearly used by people who wont dare attack you in low or null, because they need and crave the protection of high sec to roll out their neutral rr alt. It sickens me.


Indeed...while alot of things about it need fixing, the 'close and reopen corp' wardec avoidance exploit is the most obvious problem that needs fixing.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-07-16 23:27:34 UTC
Do you know what will happen if CCP closes this 'exploit' ?

People like James 315 will just move into NPC corps. Where they are still immune to wardecs, but now they don't have to spend any ISK to avoid them.

Plus the only solution is going to limit when people can leave corp. How do you propose to do that without allowing people to exploit war decs to prevent members leaving when they are fed up with corp leader ship ?

Next time, research your target before you declare war.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#11 - 2013-07-16 23:56:50 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:

James 315 is that minerbumper idiot who thinks he controlls High sec. He bumped all their ice miners away mid cycle and tried to extort them...when they wardecced him, he simply carried out the exploit, avoiding the wardec, keeping his corp and costing Black Legion 50 million isk...all in the space of 1 minute...and he can carry this exploit out as many times as he wants if he is again wardecced


So basically your problem is that James 315 is clever, and these other people are not?

Such sweet tears of unfathomable sadness.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#12 - 2013-07-17 00:07:33 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:

So basically your problem is that James 315 is clever, and these other people are not?

Such sweet tears of unfathomable sadness.


This.
I even add some more tears. Tears of joy from reading this thread.

My Condor costs less than that module!
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#13 - 2013-07-17 01:34:51 UTC
OP... you are aware what's going on right?

James315 is using the same "exploit" that carebears use to avoid wardecs. If you succeed in getting a mechanic created that prevents James from dropping corp and recreating it (so you can kill him)... you also prevent those who wish to avoid war decs in general from doing the same thing (thus making them stay in NPC corps or risk getting killed).

It's actually an ingenious plan on Jame's part. Because one way or another... SOMEONE is going to "lose" and he's going to "win."


The better solution for this is not to prevent people from avoiding wars... but to make them pay a "penalty" of sorts for putting themselves in the same situation over and over again (sorry... but that's the best way I can word it).

My Idea: Making a Corp a "big deal"

How did you Veterans start?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#14 - 2013-07-17 05:18:27 UTC
So, Op is crying over James315 being a closet carebear?
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#15 - 2013-07-17 06:39:18 UTC
My main is in a "one man" corp but I have another alt that actually has CEO (only skill actually trained is corp management to 1) and if I get wardec'd I just drop my main back into a NPC corp and wait it out, done and done.

It's stupid but until CCP can come up with something better this is how it is.
Ellon JTC
Quadralien
#16 - 2013-07-17 09:26:08 UTC
Capt Lynch wrote:
This is a problematic exploit that was no doubt requested by players sick of getting wardecced, which is a way of life in EVE.

However, it is getting out of control as several characters, most famously James 315 (his employment history is proof of this exploit if compared against wardecs sent against his character and the corp named) use it to avoid the concequences that is boasted all over EVE.

For people using this exploit, predominantly one-man corporations they are able to harass, grief and gank without the worry of a wardec thanks to the ability to simply close and instantly open an identical corp, therefore nullifying the wardec and costing the deccer 50 million isk and then continuing with the actions that caused the wardec.

This exploit needs to be removed or modified so players cannot instantly close and reset their corp without some kind of penalty that would actively discourage such action. Players that anger other playermade corps need to take their medicine and equally must also be able to attack other corps without the annoyance of their target simply resetting their corp and avoiding the dec.

This exploit's removal may make high sec a little more dangerous for the corps that are just beginning, but thats EVE for you. People will always want to kick over your sandcastle or burn your corp, be you just a small time mining corp or James 315 himself.



There could be a cost for starting a new corp. Maybe 60M so people don't do that
Ix Method
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-07-17 09:39:26 UTC
Few weeks back someone suggested giving 2-3 limited killrights (unsellable, only available to deccing corp) against anyone who drops corp during a war. Seems like a nice, clean fix imo.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Smelly PirateSaint
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-17 11:27:52 UTC
I'm not entirely sure what this ice-bumping exploit is but i presume he's in a mach or something and is simply bumping them out of range before their cycle is complete meaning they lose the ice from said cycle? Forgive me if i'm wrong in my assumption, but assuming i'm not, it sounds to me like the real complaint here is that people can't afk mine with this guy around? Is it so hard to orbit the ice at close range or simply move closer and keep at range? Or better yet stop being afk fags and just dodge him when he takes his run up? tiny bit of lateral movement will be enough to avoid the bump :/
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#19 - 2013-07-17 11:45:09 UTC
The irony of this thread is that such change would give James and his knights more options to harvest tears.
Capt Lynch
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#20 - 2013-07-17 12:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Lynch
Smelly PirateSaint wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what this ice-bumping exploit is but i presume he's in a mach or something and is simply bumping them out of range before their cycle is complete meaning they lose the ice from said cycle? Forgive me if i'm wrong in my assumption, but assuming i'm not, it sounds to me like the real complaint here is that people can't afk mine with this guy around? Is it so hard to orbit the ice at close range or simply move closer and keep at range? Or better yet stop being afk fags and just dodge him when he takes his run up? tiny bit of lateral movement will be enough to avoid the bump :/


Not that, though I can see where anyone could reach that conclusion.

What I complain about is that he can do it without fear of concequences from a wardec. Also, thanks to the new bounty mechanics that only pay out a fraction of a bounty, there is no reason for players to risk concord to attempt to collect.

As for avoiding the bumps, James favourite fit is a navy stabber with a microwarpdrive, allowing the ship to move so fast that avoiding it is not a option. Out of interest I once fitted a basic stabber with a similar fit and managed over 1400 speed.

The exploit being discussed here is his ability to simply close and reopen his corp to avoid the wardec and simply continue as before, avoiding any concequences and costing the deccer 50 million.

There is no penalty for using this ability, and there should be, be it either a 72 hour timer before people can join or leave the corps that are fighting or a isk based or sector based penalty for repeated wardec dodging.

A wardec is a concequence of your actions in eve and like the other concequences, should not be avoidable.

Johan Toralen wrote:
The irony of this thread is that such change would give James and his knights more options to harvest tears.


Possibly, but it would also open them up to retaliatory attacks and make high sec that little bit more dangerous, something they are constantly saying it needs. It would encourage mining corps to either invest in mercenary support or train PVP skills and ships, something any EVE player should do.
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