These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Mining - Needs More Player Skill and Less AFKing

Author
BiscuitMonsterr
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-07-16 23:31:08 UTC
This would literally kill me. I applaud your desire to add variety to Eve, after all, spice up your life say the Girls and all that, but afk mining is how I roll. I've rarely in all my 19 years on the planet heard of a worse idea, and I'm including real world political situations like building nuclear power stations in earthquake territory and that guy who jumped through a plate glass skyscraper window. Darwin Ward or something.

I seriously think you need to go back to the trawling board with this one.

If we think upside the box for a moment, taking a tangerinal look at the problem, how about something radical?

We make it possible to do mining by being even LESS involved than now. Offline mining! Here's how it works: you warp to a belt, get into range, activae some sort of lock-on module, and log off safely in 'mining mode'. 24 hours later, you log back in and the ore is in the nearest station hangar.

Imagine that!
Jonny Monroe
Unlicensed Medical Professionals
#42 - 2013-07-17 01:01:50 UTC
I think changing the current mining mechanics would create too much of a change all at once for CCP to be comfortable with. However, introducing new mining mechanics on top of the existing ones and slowly reducing the yield on existing mining methods to encourage the active mining methods without inflating the market that would probably be a safer way to do it.

So 2 quick ideas for active mining methods:

1) CME mining - equip your miner for maximum thermalEM tanking and a new high thermal tolerance gas miner. Warp to star of your choice, drop a special warhead into the star which starts a chain reaction and causes a large coronal mass ejection. Your miner starts taking large damage, you gotta suck in as much boiling hot star plasma as you can before having to warp out due to the constant environmental damage. Might even encourage miners to bring logistics support.

2) Comet mining - as a new mining anomaly, but comets are high speed, you pretty much have to use a venture to keep up with it in space. As you mine it, chunks break off which can cause kinetic damage if you don't adjust your vector to avoid them.

I'm sure you forum guys can come up with much better ideas, but I'm just showing there's ways to make active mining, and overlap it with roid mining, and avoid loot spew. Then all CCP needs to do is balance the output of different mining methods to encourage the style they prefer without ruining the market.
Nachtengel von Rothschild
#43 - 2013-07-17 03:00:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nachtengel von Rothschild
If you don't like how miners play the game, go play your own version of eve... we don't need you to tell us how we should mine.

mining isn't supposed to be fun, its supposed to allow us to browse the web, chat on forums, listen to music, relax, do homework, watch tv, thats the only time you can do that in eve unless you travel long distances, and some of us like it that way.

if you made mining an active sport, i would quit. why? because i don't want to waste my time farming minerals like people farm herbs in wow, especially the one you're suggesting, that is worse than wow mats farming.

no one likes to farm anything in a video game, this is why mining in eve is ok, it allows us to do other things, what you should be happy about instead of ranting off stupid suggestions like these is to be able to appreciate those who do the boring work for you.

if you don't like mining, go play eve. don't bother us please.

@ccp, if you make mining more active you'll lose a sub

edit: when i mine, i read on my phone, with my eve screen full screen checking local every few seconds, that alone is enough activity for me, if i want to "play eve" i'll stop mining.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#44 - 2013-07-17 03:42:58 UTC
Farming herbs in WoW, how does that work?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-07-17 04:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Inokuma Yawara
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Somebody mentioned this in another post briefly and I thought it was legitimately a great idea, it's an idea that would end afk mining, make the activity not entirely brainless, and add a bit of strategy and player skill to the mix. By now I am sure most people have done a new data or relic site by now and have experienced Lootkakke. Well we need Roidkakke!

When a miner or strip miner ends it cycle instead of having the ore magically teleport to your cargo hold, 3 or 4 giant chunks of ore go floating off into space in different directions. It should be possible with proper attentiveness, ship positioning, and ship fitting to get all the floating ore before it floats off into the abyss. It should also be somewhat difficult to get all the floating ore per cycle, requiring near perfect positioning, most times most people should lose one or two floating ores.

Since most people will not get all the ore every cycle, it will allow those talented miners who do to earn better income. ISBoxer fleets of 100 miners will no longer be feasible. People will need to decide if they want to play EVE online or watch TV/do homework, instead of doing both simultaneously. And best of all legitimate miners that don't run 100 accounts can actually turn a profit from mining.


Not "no", but "F@CK NO!!!"


Besides the ore is not "magically" ending up in the ore hold. You have the bright yellow-white cutting and scarfing beams to break up and shatter the ore, and you the blue tractor beams to haul the ore into your ore hold. The barges even have machinery to further process and compact the ore in order to maximize the ore hold's capacity.

In this day and age (in EVE Online), mining machinery is automated. So, AFK mining is realistic. The miner still has to be aware of his surroundings and watch out for pirates and the like. Having the technology to live and work in space and having no automation for tedious tasks is unrealistic.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#46 - 2013-07-17 04:25:06 UTC
Mining is automated but apparently detecting when you are about to be ganked, is to difficult a task for Ms. "The Capacitor is Empty"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

symolan
BamBam Inc.
#47 - 2013-07-17 05:35:10 UTC
BiscuitMonsterr wrote:
This would literally kill me. I applaud your desire to add variety to Eve, after all, spice up your life say the Girls and all that, but afk mining is how I roll. I've rarely in all my 19 years on the planet heard of a worse idea, and I'm including real world political situations like building nuclear power stations in earthquake territory and that guy who jumped through a plate glass skyscraper window. Darwin Ward or something.

I seriously think you need to go back to the trawling board with this one.

If we think upside the box for a moment, taking a tangerinal look at the problem, how about something radical?

We make it possible to do mining by being even LESS involved than now. Offline mining! Here's how it works: you warp to a belt, get into range, activae some sort of lock-on module, and log off safely in 'mining mode'. 24 hours later, you log back in and the ore is in the nearest station hangar.

Imagine that!


I'm fine with offline mining.

I do not mine, but my toon does...

But that's not what a game should be. A game should be FUN. And I'm startong to wonder whether there's a single person considering it (mining) as such.

So, leave my bonus yield for activity idea and just kill it.
Kreeia Dgore
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2013-07-17 08:00:04 UTC
Agreed mining needs changes. Exhumers/mining barges rebalancing screwed all hopes for rebalancing though. Right now there is very small difference in yield between hulk and mack/skiff, just as between covetor and retri/procurer. This is simply wrong. We could have had mining AFK ships that would be capable of long periods of AFK mining, but they would suffer due to reduced profits. Comparably more yield for hulks/covetors, which simply must me played non-afk because of low ore hold tha can't hold more than two strip miner cycles, would be a factor benefiting non-afk mining.
But none of this happened, and almost all mining ships yield the same for no reason at all. And fixing this problem would be so simple, just half the yield bonus for retriever, procurer, skiff and mackinaw. There. You can still afk mine but for reduced profits that what non-afk mining would make.
Kaptein Julegris
OverLords
#49 - 2013-07-17 10:09:07 UTC
You don't need to change the mining mechanics at all.

Just make the mining ships more fragile (easier to gank), and add an active defense of some sort (that makes it harder to gank).
Then gankers can easily kill afk'ers, while non-afk'ers can actively 'defend' their ship while mining.
And of course a nice visual effect to the 'defense', so gankers easily can identify the afk'ers Smile
mr ed thehouseofed
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2013-07-17 10:31:41 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:


LolLol onya doc

imagine the tears from bot miners clicking on chunks flying every where Lol

i want a eve pinball machine...  confirming  CCP Cognac is best cognac

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#51 - 2013-07-17 11:38:30 UTC
Space Juden wrote:
Also, when you go through a gate it throws you out in a random direction.

We could improve a lot of things in EVE this way



I like this one - gatecamp spew!

We need a mod that lets you hack stations and force all the targets inside to spew out too.


(Ran some more data/relic spew sites today - **** that's an annoying mechanic - and the ONE time I do want brackets in space to make a nice list to select from instantly, it doesn't happen with lootkkake - go figure!)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#52 - 2013-07-17 20:08:14 UTC
symolan wrote:
BiscuitMonsterr wrote:
This would literally kill me. I applaud your desire to add variety to Eve, after all, spice up your life say the Girls and all that, but afk mining is how I roll. I've rarely in all my 19 years on the planet heard of a worse idea, and I'm including real world political situations like building nuclear power stations in earthquake territory and that guy who jumped through a plate glass skyscraper window. Darwin Ward or something.

I seriously think you need to go back to the trawling board with this one.

If we think upside the box for a moment, taking a tangerinal look at the problem, how about something radical?

We make it possible to do mining by being even LESS involved than now. Offline mining! Here's how it works: you warp to a belt, get into range, activae some sort of lock-on module, and log off safely in 'mining mode'. 24 hours later, you log back in and the ore is in the nearest station hangar.

Imagine that!


I'm fine with offline mining.

I do not mine, but my toon does...

But that's not what a game should be. A game should be FUN. And I'm startong to wonder whether there's a single person considering it (mining) as such.

So, leave my bonus yield for activity idea and just kill it.



But it is fun for the people who like to mine while talking to their wives, watching TV and cooking dinner. It makes them a bit more up beat talking to thier wives or wathcing bad news on TV etc with the warm fuzzy feeling that their ore holds are getting full.

Also AFK is a misnomer.. people do need to check in but more inportantly , it implies that the activity is completed by a bot while they're at work etc. Mining may take a smaller "attention" commitment During the process yet that isn't the way to gage human involvment in an activity.

Mining ships need to be purchased and equipped. Destinations need to be selected. Ships must be warped into position. From what I understand, even individual asteroids need to be selected.. (I don't think the ships select the next closest asteroid.. but even if they did, fields get depleted)

How does watching a screen clilcking add more "STRATEGY" to the game ? Strategy is as important as watching a screen and reacting.. Thats like a joy stick game! where is our joy stick ?

EVE has aspects of chess by mail in it(PI, moon mining , ME on blue prints, stront based reinforcement timers) It has aspects of turn based games like maybe sid meirs Civilization (PI (a different part of it) Skill Training, anticipating opposing Alliances next move and deploying ships in advance.... building of logistical supply routes and plans, ship replacement programss etc).

Demanding that all activities in space must run on one type of "time fractal" that fractal of input requiring say.. player keyboard or mouse interfacing once every few seconds doesn't need to be the gauge for all activities.

There are input cycles between "watch the screen every second " and "put manufacturing components in an oven and come back every few days "

The rich and varied lenghts of decision making cycles help make EVE better and different . There is no reason there can't be parts of the game that require input once every ten minutes ,, and are even designed to let people talk to their wives or make dinner while still playing the game. That is more interest and more ways to play the game !

.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-07-17 20:14:37 UTC
Scarlett LaBlanc wrote:
I'm a long time off and on miner. I have no issues with the suggestion but something not mentioned needs to be.

Yield would have to be seriously improved. If an activity is changed to require MUCH more effort there should be an increase in output. Mining is already just about the bottom of the ISK/hr list of high sec activities.

There would need to be some research into how that would effect fleet mechaincs. If a corp had a 10 man mining fleet running in a belt, how would all those spewing can look / work?



A new profession! Ninja mining!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#54 - 2013-07-17 20:18:31 UTC
If they made mining "more interesting" by turning it into a mini game like playing mine sweeper or tetris or online solatiare..... they give me one more thing I could do competing with all the other things in the game that take the same levels of attention (updating my buy orders(which takes more thought and strategy than those that have never gotten deep into it can understand) or running the undemanding level missions for example)

--- one more thing to do with my limmited time when I'm commmited to giving almost full attention to one client

Eliminating low input mining:

-- removes one of the only things in the game that take a little bit of periodic live input while enjoying another task that is holding the other 95% of your attention 9 out of 10 minutes but reversing levels of attention for 1 of the minutes out of 10 (better not forget entirely about that pasta boiling on the stove)

Eliminating a scarce portion of the game in favor of making that portion of the game more like the others subtracts from the ways and times you can play the game.

.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-07-17 20:22:36 UTC
Nachtengel von Rothschild wrote:
If you don't like how miners play the game, go play your own version of eve... we don't need you to tell us how we should mine.

mining isn't supposed to be fun, its supposed to allow us to browse the web, chat on forums, listen to music, relax, do homework, watch tv, thats the only time you can do that in eve unless you travel long distances, and some of us like it that way.

if you made mining an active sport, i would quit. why? because i don't want to waste my time farming minerals like people farm herbs in wow, especially the one you're suggesting, that is worse than wow mats farming.

no one likes to farm anything in a video game, this is why mining in eve is ok, it allows us to do other things, what you should be happy about instead of ranting off stupid suggestions like these is to be able to appreciate those who do the boring work for you.

if you don't like mining, go play eve. don't bother us please.

@ccp, if you make mining more active you'll lose a sub

edit: when i mine, i read on my phone, with my eve screen full screen checking local every few seconds, that alone is enough activity for me, if i want to "play eve" i'll stop mining.



I came to this thread with the sole intention of poking fun and making things light in regards to mining... but this....

Wow.

"CCP designed mining so we can play the game while not playing the game" (paraphrased).

In the game of consequences which is Eve, I find this... amusing.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

GreenSeed
#56 - 2013-07-17 21:20:29 UTC
there's no AFK mining in eve, it was ended with the removal or permanent ice.

there's no problem, there's no need for a solution.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#57 - 2013-07-18 00:16:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mining is automated but apparently detecting when you are about to be ganked, is to difficult a task for Ms. "The Capacitor is Empty"


If you can detect when you are about to be ganked, the gankers are doing it wrong.

Profit favors the prepared

Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#58 - 2013-07-18 04:07:50 UTC
Kreeia Dgore wrote:
Agreed mining needs changes. Exhumers/mining barges rebalancing screwed all hopes for rebalancing though. Right now there is very small difference in yield between hulk and mack/skiff, just as between covetor and retri/procurer. This is simply wrong. We could have had mining AFK ships that would be capable of long periods of AFK mining, but they would suffer due to reduced profits. Comparably more yield for hulks/covetors, which simply must me played non-afk because of low ore hold tha can't hold more than two strip miner cycles, would be a factor benefiting non-afk mining.
But none of this happened, and almost all mining ships yield the same for no reason at all. And fixing this problem would be so simple, just half the yield bonus for retriever, procurer, skiff and mackinaw. There. You can still afk mine but for reduced profits that what non-afk mining would make.


You presume folks flying Procurers and Skiffs are doing so in order to AFK mine. You would be wrong - at least in my case. I have a Skiff (asteroids) and a Procurer (ice) because I dislike being ganked, so I fly tanked ships. And while flying those does not make me gank-proof, it does make me a really unattractive target, compared to many of my fellow miners.

There is an argument to be made that the mining ships need further rebalancing in order to further differentiate them and make mining in a given ship noticeably different than mining in another. I don't think, however, that there is much of an argument to be made that CCP needs to designate particular ships as "AFK miners" and rebalance them for that role. I don't think AFK mining needs an official CCP stamp of approval.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#59 - 2013-07-18 06:58:35 UTC
so... put all asteroids in secure containers that you have to hack?

dafak u on bro
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#60 - 2013-07-18 15:20:19 UTC
Kreeia Dgore wrote:
Agreed mining needs changes. Exhumers/mining barges rebalancing screwed all hopes for rebalancing though. Right now there is very small difference in yield between hulk and mack/skiff, just as between covetor and retri/procurer. This is simply wrong. We could have had mining AFK ships that would be capable of long periods of AFK mining, but they would suffer due to reduced profits. Comparably more yield for hulks/covetors, which simply must me played non-afk because of low ore hold tha can't hold more than two strip miner cycles, would be a factor benefiting non-afk mining.
But none of this happened, and almost all mining ships yield the same for no reason at all. And fixing this problem would be so simple, just half the yield bonus for retriever, procurer, skiff and mackinaw. There. You can still afk mine but for reduced profits that what non-afk mining would make.



Do you even mine?

The Skiff and the Procurer both are AFK *unfriendly* ships. That single turret does the same ore intake as all three turrets on a hulk/covetor comparison, but you can only target *one rock*.
Most rocks pop on 2nd or 3rd cycle, with a good half cycle empty. And even if not, the ore hold fills up very quickly.
AFK mining in a Procurer or Skiff can be forced to work, but it's far less profitable than a Retriever or Mackinaw, and you definitely don't get as much AFK out of it.

Profit favors the prepared