These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

How easy is it to kill a T2 Assault ship with a T1 frig ?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#1 - 2011-10-25 16:25:44 UTC
Assuming both pilots are reasonably skilled and have a equivelent amount of SP ? I'm just wondering as I'm still very low on SP geared for pvp and I'm wondering if it's possible to win against assault ships at all while flying a T1 ship. And I'm not talking fitting deadspace and faction or officer loot to a T1 ship, just regular old T2 items and faction ammo vs assault ship with same grade fittings. I find most often I die is when I get jumped by pilots with far superior gear. In part this is piloting error from me and inpart this is the huge disparity in performance.

Daredevil vs T1 frig or Wolf vs Tristan or 2x T3 Cruiser vs me a T1 cruiser.

So wolf or jaguar vs T1 ship - any chance of the T1 winning ?
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2011-10-25 16:37:44 UTC
It's possible, but unlikely. It depends a lot on how the two ships are set up and how skilled the other pilot is at PvP.

As with everything in Eve, insure your ship and go for it, have some fun and learn from your deaths (they teach you more than your victories).
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#3 - 2011-10-25 16:45:21 UTC
As with everything in eve..
player skill>fitting>sp

so no, if both players are equally skilled, in well fit ships, most times the t2 will win. But if the skill of the t1 pilot> the skill of the t2 pilot (which if you stick with it, practice hard and learn how the t2 ships fight IMO you won't take long to be better then most t2 pilots) then there is a decent chance of winning.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-25 17:13:22 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Assuming both pilots are reasonably skilled and have a equivelent amount of SP ? I'm just wondering as I'm still very low on SP geared for pvp and I'm wondering if it's possible to win against assault ships at all while flying a T1 ship. And I'm not talking fitting deadspace and faction or officer loot to a T1 ship, just regular old T2 items and faction ammo vs assault ship with same grade fittings. I find most often I die is when I get jumped by pilots with far superior gear. In part this is piloting error from me and inpart this is the huge disparity in performance.

Daredevil vs T1 frig or Wolf vs Tristan or 2x T3 Cruiser vs me a T1 cruiser.

So wolf or jaguar vs T1 ship - any chance of the T1 winning ?


what talliana said is pretty spot on

DD vs t1 frig, I have seen it happen

Wolf vs trisan, haven't seen it, but i could imagine it happening.

2x t3 vs t1. Unless they they are missioning, ret*rded or are afk i see no way this would ever EVER happen

I has all the eve inactivity
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#5 - 2011-10-25 17:29:06 UTC
depends on the frig... a T1 Dramiel with a competent pilot can beat nearly any t2

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#6 - 2011-10-25 17:30:27 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Assuming both pilots are reasonably skilled and have a equivelent amount of SP ? I'm just wondering as I'm still very low on SP geared for pvp and I'm wondering if it's possible to win against assault ships at all while flying a T1 ship. And I'm not talking fitting deadspace and faction or officer loot to a T1 ship, just regular old T2 items and faction ammo vs assault ship with same grade fittings. I find most often I die is when I get jumped by pilots with far superior gear. In part this is piloting error from me and inpart this is the huge disparity in performance.

Daredevil vs T1 frig or Wolf vs Tristan or 2x T3 Cruiser vs me a T1 cruiser.

So wolf or jaguar vs T1 ship - any chance of the T1 winning ?


what talliana said is pretty spot on

DD vs t1 frig, I have seen it happen

Wolf vs trisan, haven't seen it, but i could imagine it happening.

2x t3 vs t1. Unless they they are missioning, ret*rded or are afk i see no way this would ever EVER happen



Im pretty sure those were examples of what he/she/it had been encountering. Or i would hope so.

i answered based on the assumption they were talking only the second example of wolf/jag V t1

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#7 - 2011-10-25 17:32:15 UTC
Kush Monster wrote:
depends on the frig... a T1 Dramiel with a competent pilot can beat nearly any t2



Pirate =/= t1

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Goose99
#8 - 2011-10-25 20:38:41 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
As with everything in eve..
player skill>fitting>sp

so no, if both players are equally skilled, in well fit ships, most times the t2 will win. But if the skill of the t1 pilot> the skill of the t2 pilot (which if you stick with it, practice hard and learn how the t2 ships fight IMO you won't take long to be better then most t2 pilots) then there is a decent chance of winning.


Karl Planck wrote:
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Assuming both pilots are reasonably skilled and have a equivelent amount of SP ? I'm just wondering as I'm still very low on SP geared for pvp and I'm wondering if it's possible to win against assault ships at all while flying a T1 ship. And I'm not talking fitting deadspace and faction or officer loot to a T1 ship, just regular old T2 items and faction ammo vs assault ship with same grade fittings. I find most often I die is when I get jumped by pilots with far superior gear. In part this is piloting error from me and inpart this is the huge disparity in performance.

Daredevil vs T1 frig or Wolf vs Tristan or 2x T3 Cruiser vs me a T1 cruiser.

So wolf or jaguar vs T1 ship - any chance of the T1 winning ?


what talliana said is pretty spot on

DD vs t1 frig, I have seen it happen

Wolf vs trisan, haven't seen it, but i could imagine it happening.

2x t3 vs t1. Unless they they are missioning, ret*rded or are afk i see no way this would ever EVER happen


It actually complete misses the mark. If you pop a superior ship with superior fitting and superior SP, it has nothing to do with you being good, and everything to do with the other person sucking and making a mistake. Eve is a spreadsheet combat sim game, not a twitch shooter. There's no manual control. Assuming the other party is minimally competent and not make mistakes, the spreadsheet stats will show and there's nothing you can do no matter how "good" you are.
YesI'mWatching
Cool4Cats
#9 - 2011-10-25 20:43:28 UTC
For a T1 frig (not faction) to kill a PVP fit AF normally requires the AF pilot to be incompetant at either fitting or piloting, both is preferred.

killed faction frigs and buckets full of ceptors and bombers with vigils and similar, but i can't remember the last time I killed an AF with a T1 frig, I've tried moe times than i probably should have :) , get in a ruppie..........
Taron Naskingar
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-25 20:54:12 UTC
From least to greatest
T1 - Navy - T2 - Faction
You cant kill the assult ship pilot unless he is crap or uou are just ubberly fit with implants ans officer gear
Ships like the vengeance ishkur or jaguar will almost never lose to a t1 and dramiels cruors and daredevils are not t1s
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#11 - 2011-10-25 21:36:17 UTC
It really depends on your setup. I've seen AF fits that didn't have the range to take on some of the T1 kiting fits that are out there.

Most of the time, you'll die a glorious death.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2011-10-25 21:45:29 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
It actually complete misses the mark. If you pop a superior ship with superior fitting and superior SP, it has nothing to do with you being good, and everything to do with the other person sucking and making a mistake. Eve is a spreadsheet combat sim game, not a twitch shooter. There's no manual control. Assuming the other party is minimally competent and not make mistakes, the spreadsheet stats will show and there's nothing you can do no matter how "good" you are.


I don't think you know what your talking about.......

Superior ship or fitting: How exactly do you quantifiy superior in eve. Situtuations change and opponents change, so while some fits might be superior for an exact formulaic situation, the situtations you find yourself in are not so exact. Different shps have different roles, different weaknesses, and different strengths. When flying around, there are too many exterior factors to catagorically declare superior fittings and superior ships.

Eve is not a twitch game, so skill in that sense is not applicable. Skill in eve relates to applying your knowledge and manipulating your ship to give you an advantage. This is done at the fitting screen, this is done in setting up combat, and this is done during combat. Being good has EVERYTHING to do with applying your knowledge and controlling your ship. If you don't consider that skill, your ignorant.

I've killed many, many inties and the occassional AF's with t1 frigates... although its typically not easy to kill an AF. In particular, I've killed enyos (easy) and ishkurs (difficult) with standard fit rifters. They are NOT short fights (60-120s), and often backup will arrive and you'lI have to GTFO before finishing them off. I'm positive I could gank most harpies too, but they just aren't out and about much. The trick is keep out of blaster range and kill them with barrage. With ishkurs, you have to kill the drones first. Rail merlins and tristans should also win against blaster harpies and enyos, but rails will have a very hard time against ishkur drones. The Rail Merlin and Tristans are also very good against mwd-fit inties.

I'm pretty sure I can special fit a tristan/merlin/rifter to kill a standard fit wolf or retribution... but it would be a very close fight (50% chance of winning), and I would have to start the engagement at zero.

The repping ability of a vengence or hawk makes killing them with a t1 frigate very difficult.

Range control is a key aspect to winning most of the fights above. Most faction frigates have bonus' that either allow them to control range, or other bonuses that make range control ineffective.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#13 - 2011-10-26 03:09:34 UTC
"because of rifter"
Mara Abraham
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-10-26 03:32:22 UTC
Good day:

A number of my corp mates have taken down af's in t1, non faction frigates; and I've taken out interceptors in a rifter.

It comes down to pilot skill, fittings, and the willingness to engage.

Thank you.

--- Mara Abraham

  • http://www.factionalwarfare.info/
  • http://evepiratelife.com/
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#15 - 2011-10-26 03:59:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallianna Avenkarde
Goose99 wrote:
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
As with everything in eve..
player skill>fitting>sp

so no, if both players are equally skilled, in well fit ships, most times the t2 will win. But if the skill of the t1 pilot> the skill of the t2 pilot (which if you stick with it, practice hard and learn how the t2 ships fight IMO you won't take long to be better then most t2 pilots) then there is a decent chance of winning.


Karl Planck wrote:
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
Assuming both pilots are reasonably skilled and have a equivelent amount of SP ? I'm just wondering as I'm still very low on SP geared for pvp and I'm wondering if it's possible to win against assault ships at all while flying a T1 ship. And I'm not talking fitting deadspace and faction or officer loot to a T1 ship, just regular old T2 items and faction ammo vs assault ship with same grade fittings. I find most often I die is when I get jumped by pilots with far superior gear. In part this is piloting error from me and inpart this is the huge disparity in performance.

Daredevil vs T1 frig or Wolf vs Tristan or 2x T3 Cruiser vs me a T1 cruiser.

So wolf or jaguar vs T1 ship - any chance of the T1 winning ?


what talliana said is pretty spot on

DD vs t1 frig, I have seen it happen

Wolf vs trisan, haven't seen it, but i could imagine it happening.

2x t3 vs t1. Unless they they are missioning, ret*rded or are afk i see no way this would ever EVER happen


It actually complete misses the mark. If you pop a superior ship with superior fitting and superior SP, it has nothing to do with you being good, and everything to do with the other person sucking and making a mistake. Eve is a spreadsheet combat sim game, not a twitch shooter. There's no manual control. Assuming the other party is minimally competent and not make mistakes, the spreadsheet stats will show and there's nothing you can do no matter how "good" you are.


Learn to frig pilot.

If you aren't manually piloting, you're doing it wrong. So I stand by my original comment Player skill (Knowing how to manage cap, manually piloting, overheating, predicting what other pilots are going to do) > Fitting (wellfit as opposed to lolfit) > SP (90m indie vs 15m Pure PvP who do you think will win)

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#16 - 2011-10-26 04:01:41 UTC
P.S

Whenever small fleet warfare is being discussed, always listen to the tusker

:)


And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
cyka776
#17 - 2011-10-26 09:14:58 UTC
its not easy to kill most t2 or faction frigs in a t1 frig...possible but not easy

Its not hard to kill most t2 or faction frigs in a t1 cruiser...if you fit it for the job
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#18 - 2011-10-26 11:07:35 UTC
Id reckon it would be extremely difficult, near impossible for a T1 frigate to take down a ACTIVE TANKED assault ship. My vengeance can almost tank a rifter's dps...
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#19 - 2011-10-26 11:11:40 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
P.S

Whenever small fleet warfare is being discussed, always listen to the tusker

:)




You listen to Abney Park ?

Lots of replies in this thread. Thanks everyone.
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#20 - 2011-10-26 13:52:38 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
It really depends on your setup. I've seen AF fits that didn't have the range to take on some of the T1 kiting fits that are out there.

Most of the time, you'll die a glorious death.

This is quite true. Proof of concept:

http://y0ink.us/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15911

That was a situation where one of our more skillful pilots manage to keep the blaster boat at range and pummel him with T2 rockets. Note that the Merlin in question only had a pair of T2 rockets, no guns at all (salvager). Does that mean that the Ishkur pilot is terri-bad? Not necessarily. He made a couple of minor mistakes and then simply couldn't catch the kiting Merlin who happened to win the webbing game. Frigate-on-frigate action doesn't leave much room for mistakes and if you're blaster fit, you've really got to get in face melting range or die as the other guy kites you.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
12Next page