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Heavy drones can track interceptors.....

Author
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#21 - 2013-07-17 22:05:44 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:


Because drones of a pilot with good drone skills flies close to those speeds, so instead of orbiting they follow you and therefore their angular velocity towards your ships is actually small. This allows them to reliably hit you and their high damage output compensates for the lack in hit quality. That or some kind of pilot error.


omg the bad in this response is overwhelming.

They shouldn't hit often if you are moving that fast. If they are then you aren't being honest with yourself.


No, I'm being completely honest, I was checking this out with a corp mate in a Domi. He did have one tracking mod for the drones.

Orbiting at 2500 meters going about 1600 m/s with an AB malediction i was tracked beautifully. I would have been destroyed in 3 - 4 volleys, all of which hit me on the first attempt and hit hard.

I understand heavies can't chase me down so of course I can disengage, but the point is that I should be able to tackle the damn battleship in an interceptor. Try it out, it's actually quite ridiculous.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#22 - 2013-07-17 22:08:57 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Heavy drones can't track a cruiser. If they are tracking your interceptor- you are either not moving, scrammed / webbed. So don't do those things.



Again, false. I am not scrammed / webbed. I am orbiting at about 1600 m/s with a sig radius of 33.



Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#23 - 2013-07-17 22:11:41 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
God's Apples wrote:
If you're scrammed and webbed they'll track you np. If you're orbiting at long range with MWD on they won't be able to keep up with you.


They just won't..

Maybe they hit alright if you're double webbed but Heavies just generally do ****.

Not on a Dominix or Navy Vexor. Those two ships get tracking bonuses for drones.

On my Navy Vexor... Beserker drones have a tracking speed of 0.708... which is MUCH better than my "Derptron" Atron with Neutron Blasters (which tracks at around 0.474).
Plus the drones have a MWD speed close to 2000 m/sec (thanks to the Navy Vexor's ship bonuses) and have roughtly the same amount of EHP as the aforementioned Atron. Each.

And this is before drone mods and rigs too!!! Shocked

So yeah... if you're in a frigate (even an interceptor) and you see a Navy Vexor of Dominix... just fly away.



Ahhh, thankfully someone on these boards is willing to respond with some intelligence instead of "YOU FAIL AT PILOTING"


That's interesting....I'm surprised the tracking bonus gets the drone's tracking to that high, that's ridiculous.

I guess I'll never try to tackle a Domi or Navy Vexor.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#24 - 2013-07-18 02:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
God's Apples wrote:
If you're scrammed and webbed they'll track you np. If you're orbiting at long range with MWD on they won't be able to keep up with you.


They just won't..

Maybe they hit alright if you're double webbed but Heavies just generally do ****.

Not on a Dominix or Navy Vexor. Those two ships get tracking bonuses for drones.

On my Navy Vexor... Beserker drones have a tracking speed of 0.708... which is MUCH better than my "Derptron" Atron with Neutron Blasters (which tracks at around 0.474).
Plus the drones have a MWD speed close to 2000 m/sec (thanks to the Navy Vexor's ship bonuses) and have roughtly the same amount of EHP as the aforementioned Atron. Each.

And this is before drone mods and rigs too!!! Shocked

So yeah... if you're in a frigate (even an interceptor) and you see a Navy Vexor of Dominix... just fly away.



Mate.. Mate.. You are ignoring weapon signature.. That is sort of a big deal..

I remain extremely sceptical of this ogre's killing inties without dual/tripple webs thing.

True... Heavy Drones have a weapon signature of 125m... about the same as most medium weapons... which cuts down the effectiveness of their high tracking (in addition to applied damage)... but in the OP's case, that didn't do him much good as interceptors don't have much HP to spare.

However, that's pretty much one of only two major limiting factors for Heavy Drones in brawler engagements (the other being speed to keep up with the frigate... which Berserkers can handily do with a base speed of 1200 m/sec).


I should note that Heavy Drones being used outside of the N-Vexor and Domi probably won't be much of a threat to frigates (because they lose those sexy bonuses).
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#25 - 2013-07-18 03:05:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Evangelina Nolen
Destination SkillQueue wrote:

Because drones of a pilot with good drone skills flies close to those speeds, so instead of orbiting they follow you and therefore their angular velocity towards your ships is actually small. This allows them to reliably hit you and their high damage output compensates for the lack in hit quality. That or some kind of pilot error.


This. Think of the drone as another ceptor/frig. If it's not orbiting u but instead following u, it will hit. Going slower and thus allowing the heavy drones to get into orbit = you're fine. In fact, if the other ship didn't have any other weapons besides drones. staying still assuming all the drones are orbiting damn near guarantees countless misses. Ships with the drone tracking bonus will still **** you up since they can track at orbit.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#26 - 2013-07-18 03:31:27 UTC
I need to test this.. I don't buy this at all.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Grandma Squirel
#27 - 2013-07-18 06:11:08 UTC
As mentioned by others, if your flying at a speed between the orbit velocity, and max velocity of a drone, they are following you, not orbiting. You either need to slow down, or speed up. Same as if it were a ship, if your velocity is 1.7k, and your orbiting a ship with a velocity of 1.6, they are going to have a very easy time with tracking.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-07-18 11:29:48 UTC
1700m/s is about perfect mwd speed for berserkers. They'll follow you since they have similar agility and since they are moving at almost the same speed will have very little angular velocity and hit you for full damage.

The way to avoid heavy drones is to use your MWD.
Pulgy
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-07-18 18:42:39 UTC
Scrubs these days don't know how to fly intys -_-
No range? No problem!   Join the Church of the Holy Blasterâ„¢ . A Hybrid religion.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#30 - 2013-07-18 19:17:38 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
1700m/s is about perfect mwd speed for berserkers. They'll follow you since they have similar agility and since they are moving at almost the same speed will have very little angular velocity and hit you for full damage.

The way to avoid heavy drones is to use your MWD.



The drones following my orbit and cutting my angular makes a little sense. Not sure why heavies have such a high orbit velocity but I suppose that's a different discussion.

I attempted the same thing with an MWD, the heavy drones from the domi still hit for about the same as with the AB, though I was going about 3k m/s in my orbit of the Domi.

I still don't like it, but it is what it is.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#31 - 2013-07-18 19:19:31 UTC
Pulgy wrote:
Scrubs these days don't know how to fly intys -_-


Replicate the scenario that I was in and see if your results are any different.

Until that time, kindly **** off.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#32 - 2013-07-21 08:42:34 UTC
The way drones attack is actually quite stupid. There's a sour spot with drones which are fast versus foes which are going between their orbit and MWD speeds.

What they do is get launched.

Then they sit there, often for a full second or two after you tell them to attack (I have a programmable nerd mouse so this is a thumb-click to circumvent the DUMBASS dating sim drone interface).

Then they run at full speed towards the target at 100% MWD speed. Wheeeee!

When they get to the target, they slow down to their orbit velocity. They then try to shoot the foe with their tracking vs the foe's sig, vs their angular velocity.

This works really well for drones attacking something big, slow and sig-bloated. Attacking something way faster than their orbit velocity throws up an anomaly.

In this case they scream in to the target at 100% MWD speed and enter orbit...which is often slower than their foe's speed...so they fall out of orbit with their enemy...at which point, when out of orbit, they begin following at 100% speed again. Wheeeee!

Etcetera etcetera ad infinitum.

If you don't believe me, try,
a) drone nav rigs on a Dragoon and get your Warrior II's to attack a Dramiel or something fast, but nowhere near as fast as the 8.75km/s drones you now have
b) entering a C4 Black Hole and try getting your drones to attack anything which is way too slow for them. Or try recalling them. They will orbit you in spastic rubber-band orbits until you tell them to return and orbit, and then return to drone bay (which causes them to slow down enough to dock with you).
c) doing same with Dragoon in Black Hole. 24km/s Warriors are...utterly munted.

The same will happen, incidentally, if you are going somewhere between the Berserker's max and orbit velocities.

This is also, I have pointed out incessantly to the devs, why web drones are absolutely useless. They are too slow to catch their foes and if they do, they get slower still and don't slow their foes enough to keep their foes with them. So they are forever hitting their sour spot and making themselves look idiotic.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-07-21 10:25:08 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
1700m/s is about perfect mwd speed for berserkers. They'll follow you since they have similar agility and since they are moving at almost the same speed will have very little angular velocity and hit you for full damage.

The way to avoid heavy drones is to use your MWD.



The drones following my orbit and cutting my angular makes a little sense. Not sure why heavies have such a high orbit velocity but I suppose that's a different discussion.

I attempted the same thing with an MWD, the heavy drones from the domi still hit for about the same as with the AB, though I was going about 3k m/s in my orbit of the Domi.

I still don't like it, but it is what it is.


well of course if you orbit like a moron, you're bound to circle around back into the drones' optimals before long.

If you orbit people when flying an inty you're doing it wrong.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2013-07-24 12:56:45 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The way drones attack is actually quite stupid. There's a sour spot with drones which are fast versus foes which are going between their orbit and MWD speeds.

What they do is get launched.

Then they sit there, often for a full second or two after you tell them to attack (I have a programmable nerd mouse so this is a thumb-click to circumvent the DUMBASS dating sim drone interface).

Then they run at full speed towards the target at 100% MWD speed. Wheeeee!

When they get to the target, they slow down to their orbit velocity. They then try to shoot the foe with their tracking vs the foe's sig, vs their angular velocity.

This works really well for drones attacking something big, slow and sig-bloated. Attacking something way faster than their orbit velocity throws up an anomaly.

In this case they scream in to the target at 100% MWD speed and enter orbit...which is often slower than their foe's speed...so they fall out of orbit with their enemy...at which point, when out of orbit, they begin following at 100% speed again. Wheeeee!

Etcetera etcetera ad infinitum.

If you don't believe me, try,
a) drone nav rigs on a Dragoon and get your Warrior II's to attack a Dramiel or something fast, but nowhere near as fast as the 8.75km/s drones you now have
b) entering a C4 Black Hole and try getting your drones to attack anything which is way too slow for them. Or try recalling them. They will orbit you in spastic rubber-band orbits until you tell them to return and orbit, and then return to drone bay (which causes them to slow down enough to dock with you).
c) doing same with Dragoon in Black Hole. 24km/s Warriors are...utterly munted.

The same will happen, incidentally, if you are going somewhere between the Berserker's max and orbit velocities.

This is also, I have pointed out incessantly to the devs, why web drones are absolutely useless. They are too slow to catch their foes and if they do, they get slower still and don't slow their foes enough to keep their foes with them. So they are forever hitting their sour spot and making themselves look idiotic.

dude. thanks for sharing that.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-07-24 15:38:48 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:

This is also, I have pointed out incessantly to the devs, why web drones are absolutely useless. They are too slow to catch their foes and if they do, they get slower still and don't slow their foes enough to keep their foes with them. So they are forever hitting their sour spot and making themselves look idiotic.


In other news, no one would use the stacking raped EW drones anyway if they were fixed because: EC-X00 :D

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#36 - 2013-07-24 19:13:42 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Phaade wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
1700m/s is about perfect mwd speed for berserkers. They'll follow you since they have similar agility and since they are moving at almost the same speed will have very little angular velocity and hit you for full damage.

The way to avoid heavy drones is to use your MWD.



The drones following my orbit and cutting my angular makes a little sense. Not sure why heavies have such a high orbit velocity but I suppose that's a different discussion.

I attempted the same thing with an MWD, the heavy drones from the domi still hit for about the same as with the AB, though I was going about 3k m/s in my orbit of the Domi.

I still don't like it, but it is what it is.


well of course if you orbit like a moron, you're bound to circle around back into the drones' optimals before long.

If you orbit people when flying an inty you're doing it wrong.



Lmao, I'm sorry?

What are your tactics for attempting a tackle on a BS with an interceptor? Please, enlighten me.

Me being in a heavy drone's optimal has jack **** to do with their tracking.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-07-24 21:37:54 UTC
It's not tackling "A BS" you are tackling a dominix with heavy drones.

And being in the drone's optimal while orbiting with MWD on has EVERYTHING to do with them being able to hit you.

Eventually you will circle around while the drones are chasing you and your trajectories will line up and they will volley you nicely.

Also let me guess: you have a MSE on your inty.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#38 - 2013-07-24 22:47:44 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
It's not tackling "A BS" you are tackling a dominix with heavy drones.

And being in the drone's optimal while orbiting with MWD on has EVERYTHING to do with them being able to hit you.

Eventually you will circle around while the drones are chasing you and your trajectories will line up and they will volley you nicely.

Also let me guess: you have a MSE on your inty.



Man, it's like people don't even read before responding with idiocy.

I WAS USING AN AFTERBURNER WITH A SIG RADIUS OF 33, ORBITING AROUND 3-4KM, GOING ABOUT 1600 MS. Maybe since it's in all caps and in bold you might actually read it.

And no, optimal has nothing to do with tracking. I don't believe heavies should be able to track the way they do, even if it's specifically from a Dominix. Lights, of course, mediums....sure, heavies, wtf?

I don't care if they can hit me once because my angular lines up, I care that they can hit me with every single shot, popping me in about 3 - 4 volleys.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-07-24 22:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
Grandma Squirel wrote:
As mentioned by others, if your flying at a speed between the orbit velocity, and max velocity of a drone, they are following you, not orbiting. You either need to slow down, or speed up. Same as if it were a ship, if your velocity is 1.7k, and your orbiting a ship with a velocity of 1.6, they are going to have a very easy time with tracking.


Seems to answer your question, I did not see your reply to this.

Also, WHY so Seri0Us? It's just pixels right?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#40 - 2013-07-25 01:05:20 UTC
What You Should Be Worried About Is That Your Ceptor Only Goes 1600M/S.
BattleCruisers Can Outrun It !