Ships & Modules

Yes, only YOU have observed this, you have nothing to back yourself except your word which in every way does not match statistical evidence provided by the simulation.

I have provided my evidence through simulation since I don't have the means to record my gameplay, you have provided almost nothing.

Yes, only YOU have observed this, you have nothing to back yourself except your word which in every way does not match statistical evidence provided by the simulation.

I have provided my evidence through simulation since I don't have the means to record my gameplay, you have provided almost nothing.

You said you were even better than me at simulation and using EFT: time to put your money where your mouth is.

also:



I gave you a pretty clear list of things of what I would accept as suitable evidence.

You have provided an argument only. The evidence is something which comes from actually playing. EFT graph is a tool, quite a good and useful one, but still a tool only and an indicator at best. It's not and never will be a final proof.

Edit: BTW, not only I have observed. There were other people posting in this thread and reporting Vargur's superior performance in game.


I said I'm better than you at theorycrafting. And I know all too well where it leads, which is why I'm not going to do it. If the EFT is the only proof you could accept, let's leave it that way.


You received numbers and denied them. Screenshots can be photoshopped. Videos can be fabricated. If you don't believe my word, why should you believe anything else I have produced?

I did and it just means the vargur loses out because it has to spend time flying to the rats while the domi is happily sitting at warp in point.

Also notice there's only a 100 paper DPS difference between the two and the vargur starts being outclassed at 27km.



ET is an accurate tool and if one knows how to extract the relevant information from it you can create a practically accurate simulation. You said you were better than me at this and have yet to even try. If you feel EFT is erroneous or inaccurate, please point out the parts which you can only determine by "actually flying the ship".

You said vargur completes missions xx% faster than the domi, which is about as good as me saying I'm Bill Gates.

Now all you're doing is making excuses NOT to provide any hard proof because you know it will sway things in favour of the domi.

I repeat, I'm not saying the EFT is wrong. Only sometimes can be misleading. And my main thesis is that whatever you plan in EFT must be verified in practice. But since you asked so nicely for a bit of theory here you go.

Things you missed are time and tracking.

Time. Domi when moves cannot deploy sentries. So depending on mission and your playing style you have some moments when you're not dealing your optimal DPS. Meanwhile my Vargur shoots for all the time when there is a red cross on the grid (minus EWAR of course). Even if I'm in deep falloff. If they are too far, I load Barrages and shoot again. While shooting I'm moving my ass, so deep falloff becomes shallow falloff, and it becomes such quite fast.

Tracking. Since AC have excellent tracking themselves and it's improved by Marauder bonus, even when hitting in falloff I still score good to perfect hits. Some DPS is wasted but some DPS is gained.

Also having ability to choose damage profile while retaining DPS plays some role too.


Both facts are verifiable.


I said I can't be arsed to produce video. And frankly I'm not too motivated to make screenshots either, but if I did, what should such a screenshot show?

Why is the target on a full horizontal velocity =S?

But nvm, the only ranges that matter really are spawn ranges which can be dictated by both ships.

As you can see the domi has a 44km advantage over the varg and you've quite obviously got implants on the varg and none on the domi ;).

You don't need a sebo on a MJD fit at all, just angle your jump correctly and you will land in range.



Domi doesn't need to move, you MJD and stay in the spot until the cooldown comes back up or the room is clear, whichever happens last. The only time where I won't be shooting is when I'm spooling up my MJD which takes all of 9 seconds, less time than it takes for you to change ammunition.

Tracking cannot make you do more DPS than your ship is fit for. EFT lists best case scenario and the DPS graph is an accurate representation of your DPS at different ranges.

I can choose my damage type too and it takes a far sight shorter time than the 10 second reload of projectiles.

I can't verify the fact I am Bill Gates unless I meet you in person, I can however provide convincing evidence to support this claim.

You still haven't provided any statistical evidence that a vargur will outperform a domi in a mission environment fyi. Screenshot evidence would, for me, be:

1. Agent conversation before accepting mission
2. Agent conversation after accepting mission
3. Local chat with timestamps on with you saying "Mission accepted"
3. Screencap of first room to verify it is indeed the correct mission
4. Screencap of mission description with the green "Mission complete" visible (try not to pick any missions that have a item objective to return).

Time must be visible on the neocom in all screenshots, as far as I'm aware there's no way to edit that time bar photoshopping.
Log must be open and visible in every screenshot.



For example?

And why?

Having the longest locking range and some more DPS at longer ranges doesn't mean anything that you will complete the missions faster or earn more isks if you want to loot and salvage the wrecks to earn the extra isks.

There is alot that counter in how you do the missions or earn your isks there.

With a Domi, you have to use an alt to loot and salvage the wrecks to be effective. I can be effective as hell with that alone in my Vargur. I can tractor all of the wrecks to me really fast from 48 km and loot it and salvage them WHILE i kill the npc's / do the missions.

So if you only have one character / account (like i do), a Vargur beats the living crap out of the Dominix in level 4 missions.

Sure, a Dominix is effective when you think about how cheap it is compared to the Vargur. But in the longer run, you will earn tons more isks with the Vargur over the Dominix.