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Report on POW treatment by Pyre Falcon Defence Combine

Author
Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-07-16 15:55:12 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
As much as people just love to claim otherwise, not everyone in the Kingdom - or the Empire, for that matter - is legally permitted to own or employ slaves, Verin. There's a lot of time-consuming (and expensive, in some cases) paperwork that needs to be done, and even then, those slaves are typically considered to be on something approximating a lease to the business-owner.


Thank you, Morwen, for pointing this out.

Though many view 'slavery' as an ugly part of the Empire, and the Kingdom, please do understand that it is also very much the realm of the Elite or the Holy. It is an extreme taken, with many guidelines, laws, and rights in place. As for cost, I will refer anyone to global cluster market data and ask how many baseliners do they think earn that type of ISK in the day God made them for the random house-slaves people seem to think we must be literally drowning in, considering that if one does not have the right to possess such assets, that they will not remain theirs. All life is precious.

I am not familiar with the details of this planets' customs, but In my sect in Khanid Space, everyone spent at least one Measured Year in service as a retainee in a profession in which they were able as a lesson. There is a lesson that comes with service to something greater than yourself. It teaches you to be able to serve something greater than yourself in an organised unit, to forward humanity as a whole, and to raise yourself and those of your community. To become as the loving God, as close to peace in life as you can.

Perspective is something easily distorted and blurred when you have been trained to look at something from fifty-two meter axis to thousands of meters length in size, and imagine every one and everything it is comprised to of to be as simple as the single man or woman piloting. Or simply their name. Or simply a NeoCom color-coded mark of your HUD.


This is very clearly not Reclaiming. It is War.

A life for a life. It is simple. If you are willing to be outraged, be outraged enough to release your own prisoners.

This is, my hundred of meter tall friends, If you bothered to take any from the vaccuum of space before they perished.

Did you remember there are men and women in there?

Is this what it took for some of you to be reminded?

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-07-16 16:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitcher
Don't insult us by trying to rose-tint slavery, pilot.

I'm prepared to accept that it's not as wide-spread and prolific as I had thought, but if you think there's anything "holy" about treating another human being as property, then your definition of holiness needs to be thrown in the incinerator.

Service to a higher cause willingly given by a free person is one of the most valuable things in all the worlds.

Serving a higher cause because if you don't, you suffer, shares none of that nobility. Not a scrap of it.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#63 - 2013-07-16 17:02:30 UTC
Putting aside the whole slavery issue for a moment*... a Pyre pilot sets out to "investigate" conditions in a Pyre owned and operated prison facility and determines that everything is just super peachy swell and no prisoners are being abused! Imagine that!

Why did the words conflict of interest suddenly pop into my mind? Roll


*If this whole exercise in indentured servitude was above board and legal, why not base these facilities in the State?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#64 - 2013-07-16 17:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Ah, a question I can answer, thank you Miss Rella!

Unskilled labour is not a commodity of great value in the State. We've never had huge amounts of it available and so our industries are just not set up to make great use of it. Certainly, I'm sure we could find work for these people - breaking rocks, for example, but it would be useless busy work. We would be compensated for it at a very nominal level.

Yes, they could be trained to operate complex machinery - most of them are ship's crews, after all - but this would open our industries up to the possibility of sabotage. In addition we just don't know how long they'll be in custody for, since there is no fixed or minimum term they'll be with us.

Thirdly there is a labour force shortage in the Kingdom. They don't have enough slaves to do the sort of labour that slaves do, culturally, within their economy. The Holders struggle to provide sufficient manpower to their retainers and the retainers struggle to modernise their economy. Modernisation is ongoing, but it may be a century or so before the Khanid industrial base is transformed to something more, uh, forward looking.

Hopefully the war and its prisoners will be LONG gone by then.

The final matter is one of the conflict of interest. I agree that I am not an unbiased or impartial observer, but when the news of this new program broke, a number of capsuleers came to me and demanded that I 'do something about it'. I told them I would no submit POWs that I captured to this program until I had investigated the situation for myself.

I did this and I make my report public, for what it is worth. Understand that this is me, personally, concerned about my image with people who are important to me. Pyre Falcon Defence Combine really doesn't care what you think of it, unless you're a voting shareholder. Their officers couldn't be more aggressively disinterested at your opinion of them, for the most part.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#65 - 2013-07-16 17:47:19 UTC
Do you risk reprisals from them for doing so?

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2013-07-16 17:59:12 UTC
No, not at all. Whilst I'm sure they're rolling their eyes at what they consider to be appeasment, the Chairwoman gave her permission for me to do this.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-07-16 18:11:31 UTC
Andrea Okazon wrote:
Do you risk reprisals from them for doing so?



This was a personal request I granted Operative Tuulinen as he felt it was important. Or do you think anything much of all occurs inside Pyre Falcon without my tacit consent?

And as far as I'm aware they do not yet make rugs wide and heavy enough to wrap Tuulinen up in our internal Black Van squads.

I suppose he'll just get off free this time.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#68 - 2013-07-16 18:51:40 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Tali Ambraelle would Appear to be a Propaganda Mouthpiece for some Other Person, employed to distribute the Other Person's Views, without revealing the Identity of the Other Person.

Thus, as an IGS Puppet, their Words are of approximate value = 0.


But this never happens! Ever! You think someone would do that? Just pay another to rant on the IGS and..post propaganda?

DISCLAIMER: I am pouring the sarcasm hard on this post in case anyone missed it.


The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.

The Hatred directed at Pyre Specifically would suggest a Person with a Grudge against Pyre.
Recent persons with Grudges against Pyre could include elements of Alyxva Paradox, who recently fought a War with Pyre.
Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.
Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.

Since being Identified as a Puppet, Tali Ambraelle has become Silent, having been Thwarted.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#69 - 2013-07-16 19:08:27 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Tali Ambraelle would Appear to be a Propaganda Mouthpiece for some Other Person, employed to distribute the Other Person's Views, without revealing the Identity of the Other Person.

Thus, as an IGS Puppet, their Words are of approximate value = 0.


But this never happens! Ever! You think someone would do that? Just pay another to rant on the IGS and..post propaganda?

DISCLAIMER: I am pouring the sarcasm hard on this post in case anyone missed it.


The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.

The Hatred directed at Pyre Specifically would suggest a Person with a Grudge against Pyre.
Recent persons with Grudges against Pyre could include elements of Alyxva Paradox, who recently fought a War with Pyre.
Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.
Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.

Since being Identified as a Puppet, Tali Ambraelle has become Silent, having been Thwarted.


We thank you for your vigilance in this matter, Ma'am.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-07-16 19:13:41 UTC
While I'll admit I'm not an unbiased party in this debate, I do feel compelled to point out that this change in policy on the part of Pyre stems from the failure of their earlier policy of "POWs will be repatriated, we encourage our foes to do the same".

When I say "failure", by the way, I mean "their foes largely did not do the same".

I would encourage all militia members chiming in on this discussion to give as forthright a report of the disposition of any POWs they capture - and what percentage they leave on the field.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#71 - 2013-07-16 19:45:33 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:

The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.

Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.
Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.


I'm betting on Myxx. It's the same kind of bush league psych-out nonsense they went in for.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#72 - 2013-07-16 21:06:15 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
While I'll admit I'm not an unbiased party in this debate, I do feel compelled to point out that this change in policy on the part of Pyre stems from the failure of their earlier policy of "POWs will be repatriated, we encourage our foes to do the same".

When I say "failure", by the way, I mean "their foes largely did not do the same".

I would encourage all militia members chiming in on this discussion to give as forthright a report of the disposition of any POWs they capture - and what percentage they leave on the field.


This is key. The ideal, of course, from my perspective, would be for Pyre and Villore to stop shooting at eachother. Failing that, while I can't exactly bring myself to take Pyre at their word, they're the most transparent of any of the belligerents.

Really, I believe the Federation should not be lagging behind in the area of "humane war" -- to the limited extent that that phrase isn't an obscene joke.
Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-07-16 22:57:46 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.

How deep and meaningful. Too deep for most. How do you do it?

Quote:
The Hatred directed at Pyre Specifically would suggest a Person with a Grudge against Pyre.
Recent persons with Grudges against Pyre could include elements of Alyxva Paradox, who recently fought a War with Pyre.
Less Obvious persons would include Persons who wish to Frame elements of Alyxva Paradox, because they have a Grudge against Alyxva Paradox.

How fascinating. The blooder is associating an Academy student with a universal conspiracy. I suppose the lessons regarding the Law of Parsimony missed you during Bleeding School? But please, do continue to label a simple, factual statement as propaganda involving a misfit band of transhumanist Anoikis vagabonds. Your assumptions make me smile.

Quote:
Some Potential candidates for This sort of Subterfuge have been Identified.

Let me guess, the Jove did it?

Quote:
Since being Identified as a Puppet, Tali Ambraelle has become Silent, having been Thwarted.


Thwarted? Airing an opinion against a hypocritical slaver and not responding to every other response means...I'm thwarted? What's it like in that little world of yours?
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#74 - 2013-07-16 23:21:56 UTC
Jailer. Not Slaver. Jailer.

And actually, my duties don't include supervising the work camps, so I'm not even that.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#75 - 2013-07-16 23:59:20 UTC
Andrea Okazon wrote:

This is key. The ideal, of course, from my perspective, would be for Pyre and Villore to stop shooting at eachother.


To heck with that, where else should we get our entertainment out of then?

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-07-17 04:15:57 UTC
Well, we could gang up on the Republic...

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)

Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#77 - 2013-07-17 05:13:54 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:


Do you think the Villore Accords give tea and cake to their prisoners of war? That they chuckle over the lives lost, slip a few ISK in the prisoner's pocket, and send them home so that the enemy force can debrief them and reassign them to new warships?


I've taken POWs into my personal custody a number of times before transferring or exchanging them. Tea, yes. Cake, not typically. Although at least one prisoner was actually a damn fine baker, strangely. I prefer to have them prepare their own meals, if possible. GMVA makes an effort to repatriate captured POWs without too much delay. It helps in negotiating the timely return of our own captured crews.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-07-17 06:22:47 UTC
Shintoko Akahoshi wrote:
Well, we could gang up on the Republic...

Could work.
But first, we should gang up on the Federation.
This den of scum and villainy must fall.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#79 - 2013-07-17 06:49:00 UTC
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.

What's it like in that little world of yours?


It is Considerably More Fun than being a Mere Puppet voicing the Opinion of others.

Enjoy having your strings pulled, Puppet.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Tali Ambraelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-07-17 13:41:25 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
The Question is then whose Puppet is Tali Ambraelle.

What's it like in that little world of yours?


It is Considerably More Fun than being a Mere Puppet voicing the Opinion of others.

Enjoy having your strings pulled, Puppet.


Coming from a bleeder with a penchant for odd capitalization, I find your label to hold little value.