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Star Citizen v EVE

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digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1721 - 2014-09-18 22:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
DaReaper wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Dunno about you guys but since the 0.9 patch has been released, I've been having a ball in coop mode 4 vs 4 dog fights with the NPC's on one side and real players on your end, and the NPC's ever harder on each wave, then there's a battle royal mode( last man standing), and the capture the core mode( standard capture the flag mode), and finally the racing tracks( 3 to pick from).


All these modes are playable with real players and not just exclusively with NPC's, and they're a riot with the realistic physics and having red outs and black outs in hard maneuvering, and having full Hotas support and track IR support, not to mention looking absolutely stunning in the process right down to the hangars....Eve is looking old by comparison.


And bigger fights will be possible with up to 50 player ships involved even if it's instanced, which is plenty and while it isn't the 1000 ship fights of eve, it does avoid the blob warfare it's become.



That's nice, I'll take my 2k vs 2k single server don't need to ask what server and or instance to join to be with my buds everyday of the week.

You can enjoy your vaporware, and if you are, more power to ya.



There is a friend invite code system added just so you know, so which server they might be on, or which instance you're in doesn't matter at all, they'll show up if invited....I know you want to try your best to bad mouth the game, but try to read what's been added to the patches as they get released before criticizing:


Here's the video for the M50 racer and it's hysterical, and looks exactly like that in game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7Mn1XXUpgc
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#1722 - 2014-09-20 16:12:04 UTC
Nice Top Gear spoof but the issue remains that the game itself, in the MMO aspect that is supposed to compete with EVE, is not out yet.

Games rarely release, especially these days, with every feature exactly as promised. When promising to the public, it's better to "underpromise and overdeliver" - CCP found out the hard way when their delivery fell short of the promises, triggering a massive community backlash.

Many may say "But Roberts is a legend! He's not some small-time Icelandic company" but it's worth remembering that those rules apply to everyone regardless of how legendary they are. In fact, CCP have an advantage - their own community expects their features to be underwhelming.

And, to be honest, if Roberts wants to match CCP's offer of a persistent universe where your choices have consequences, and said consequences matter... all the while eliminating aspects other people perceive as "bad", like "unfair PvP" - he's in for the nigh on impossible.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1723 - 2014-09-20 17:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Trii Seo wrote:
Nice Top Gear spoof but the issue remains that the game itself, in the MMO aspect that is supposed to compete with EVE, is not out yet.

Games rarely release, especially these days, with every feature exactly as promised. When promising to the public, it's better to "underpromise and overdeliver" - CCP found out the hard way when their delivery fell short of the promises, triggering a massive community backlash.

Many may say "But Roberts is a legend! He's not some small-time Icelandic company" but it's worth remembering that those rules apply to everyone regardless of how legendary they are. In fact, CCP have an advantage - their own community expects their features to be underwhelming.

And, to be honest, if Roberts wants to match CCP's offer of a persistent universe where your choices have consequences, and said consequences matter... all the while eliminating aspects other people perceive as "bad", like "unfair PvP" - he's in for the nigh on impossible.



Absolutely true, but even EVE had a limitation that star citizen does not, and that's that the game was originally published by Simon and Shuster, and thus had to come under a specific budget to make it a reality...Star Citizen does not have that to deal with and all new features are submitted to players to see if they want them or not, and the money goes directly to the developer.


1: We have a flight test simulator which is what arena commander is, so you can test setups without losing your ships.
2: Within that mode there's a racing game which you saw the video, and capture the flag, and last man standing, and a coop mode.
3: There will be an FPS mode and that's the next part that will be shown at Australia in early November.
4: You can discover jump points and map them and sell them at a profit, or see where they lead.
5: Then there's the MMO part, which even if it isn't as complex as Eve is( it's not supposed to be), is being developed.
6: there is also a single player campaign with 50 missions if you don't want to play online at all.


I'm even forgetting the immersion aspects such as red out's and blackout's, or the realistic physics which the larger ships that have a crew onboard, actually use 2 physics engines...One for the ship, and one for the crew, and boarding mechanics to take over large ships, instead of just blowing them up which is the only Option in EVE.


Think of the game as EVE with Incarna( had it been released) + Dust+ Valkyrie + a single player campaign all rolled into one and add the ability to fly multiple ship classes( unlike Valkyrie since they're just fighter bombers), and capture ships too.....Now you get what star Citizen is.....Last I checked, no one has ever attempted rolling all those game types into a single game.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#1724 - 2014-09-21 17:44:54 UTC
Um no, the game is neither of those since it's not out yet. No-one has ever attempted doing so because t's a massive scope for one project - and without a publisher to yank on the chain every now and then, there's a high chance of the ambitious project exploding into a hilarious ball of drama.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1725 - 2014-09-21 20:45:12 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
Um no, the game is neither of those since it's not out yet. No-one has ever attempted doing so because t's a massive scope for one project - and without a publisher to yank on the chain every now and then, there's a high chance of the ambitious project exploding into a hilarious ball of drama.



That's what people have been telling me for the past 2 years ever since I pledged for it's development, yet individual modules keep getting released, granted sometimes late and it might be another 2 years until the game is fully finished, but here we are at nearly 54 million in funding and still climbing fast, and there's a total of 270 people working on the project.


If it were to blow up, it would have already done it by now, so it shows the difference between those willing to bet on a long shot, and those that need the end product finished and in their hands and enjoying it, before they believe it's true....I guess you're the latter, and it's no problem since unfortunately, that's how the majority of the world thinks...We've just grown to have such a short term view of things.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1726 - 2014-09-22 19:46:28 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
digitalwanderer wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
Um no, the game is neither of those since it's not out yet. No-one has ever attempted doing so because t's a massive scope for one project - and without a publisher to yank on the chain every now and then, there's a high chance of the ambitious project exploding into a hilarious ball of drama.



That's what people have been telling me for the past 2 years ever since I pledged for it's development, yet individual modules keep getting released, granted sometimes late and it might be another 2 years until the game is fully finished, but here we are at nearly 54 million in funding and still climbing fast, and there's a total of 270 people working on the project.


If it were to blow up, it would have already done it by now, so it shows the difference between those willing to bet on a long shot, and those that need the end product finished and in their hands and enjoying it, before they believe it's true....I guess you're the latter, and it's no problem since unfortunately, that's how the majority of the world thinks...We've just grown to have such a short term view of things.


No, not really. The problem is right now all SC is is two separate games. A hanger sim and a flight sim, with an FPS game being made. You have no idea how all the games will work together and if they will correctly. It will either be a great success, or a collasel failure. And at any time in the process, that whole house of card could come tumbling down. 54m when he sais he just needed 20m (and following track record, when he said he could make his wing commander game (or was it freelancer) for 50 min, but it became 100m and was never finished by him) doesn't really mean squat. We just dunno yet.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1727 - 2014-09-22 20:42:15 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Trii Seo wrote:
Um no, the game is neither of those since it's not out yet. No-one has ever attempted doing so because t's a massive scope for one project - and without a publisher to yank on the chain every now and then, there's a high chance of the ambitious project exploding into a hilarious ball of drama.



That's what people have been telling me for the past 2 years ever since I pledged for it's development, yet individual modules keep getting released, granted sometimes late and it might be another 2 years until the game is fully finished, but here we are at nearly 54 million in funding and still climbing fast, and there's a total of 270 people working on the project.


If it were to blow up, it would have already done it by now, so it shows the difference between those willing to bet on a long shot, and those that need the end product finished and in their hands and enjoying it, before they believe it's true....I guess you're the latter, and it's no problem since unfortunately, that's how the majority of the world thinks...We've just grown to have such a short term view of things.


No, not really. The problem is right now all SC is is two separate games. A hanger sim and a flight sim, with an FPS game being made. You have no idea how all the games will work together and if they will correctly. It will either be a great success, or a collasel failure. And at any time in the process, that whole house of card could come tumbling down. 54m when he sais he just needed 20m (and following track record, when he said he could make his wing commander game (or was it freelancer) for 50 min, but it became 100m and was never finished by him) doesn't really mean squat. We just dunno yet.



Actually, the initial 20 million goal is what Chris Roberts had planned for an initial release of the game, and with all the extended funding achieved so far, it'll end up being a game that on it's initial scope will be bigger than he anticipated and content that was to be released later, will be released much sooner.

One of the things we already see right now is the racing option with dedicated race ships and having 3 tracks to choose from...That was not part of the initial release of the game at 20 million.

But since you've been the pessimist type ever since this thread was born many moons ago, stating flat out that it was an outright rip-off for early backers, we already know we're you're coming from a mile away....Basically, heaven forbid it be a success and outdo EVE in many respects...
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1728 - 2014-09-22 21:06:09 UTC
2nd wave of ships is starting to sale with LTI.

Not sure about what to think about it not a fan for sure.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1729 - 2014-09-23 00:49:31 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
2nd wave of ships is starting to sale with LTI.

Not sure about what to think about it not a fan for sure.



The carrack seems to be leading by a comfortable margin.
Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
#1730 - 2014-09-23 17:03:13 UTC
Have you guys seen this fan made trailer? It's ******* epic.

http://youtu.be/9m5mssQBmT8
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1731 - 2014-09-23 18:44:47 UTC
Orion Pax wrote:
Have you guys seen this fan made trailer? It's ******* epic.

http://youtu.be/9m5mssQBmT8



Remember now, according to some it's still a rip off from chris Roberts and won't live up to it's potential or scope......P


The EVE force is strong with some here to not allow the benefit of the doubt.
Orion Pax
Yoyodyne corporation
#1732 - 2014-09-23 19:05:18 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:


Not asking for hand holding or a cookie either, but to make the game challenging for every player still playing the game, and that goes beyond PVP...

There could be mechanics in place that go beyond having a lot of isk or the ship taking months to make.....I'm talking skill sets that take years to train even for veteran players, are mandatory to train them all to even undock the ship.

Make it in such a way that training for a titan and maxing all the relevant skills was a joke by comparison....That kind of difficulty that makes said ships available take 5+ years before they become common, not just a few months.


Anyhow, back to star citizen and i'm happy to say the V0.9 patch is out and the hangars look stunning.....big patch though, it's actually larger than the entire EVE client and it's only a small part of the entire game....I'm afraid to imagine how big the game will be once all the individual parts come together....It'll be a monster download.



I agree with you digitalwanderer. We need a lot of new content for Eve and tons of new goals. Eve is currently stagnating. Everyone and their uncle has a Titan now. There is no "wow" to any of the ships or goals to achieve now. Personally, I'd like to see tech 2 Carriers, Dreads, Titans that are game changers with a whole new set of weapons that are unique and add greater depth to the game.
Commissar Kate
NulzSec
#1733 - 2014-09-23 20:02:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Commissar Kate
I've been checking out all the new updates for Star Citizen as then have came out. Can't say as I'm really impressed as of yet by what's available, nothing really groundbreaking for me, but I suppose time will tell. I wish I could check out a few other ships as all I have is an Aurora and it seems pretty basic...

Would also like to try out missiles too but don't have those either. Are they high off-borsight capable or do you have to point your ship right at them to fire? Do they require a radar lock or do they have their own seeker and it automatically locks on to the nearest/largest target?

The main thing i'm interested in is how all these different gameplay options will integrate and interact with each other and how seamless it will be. As that seems to be the big deal about Star Citizen, not necessarily all of the individual modules but the whole package.

FPS module is least interesting one for me. I'd much rather get a large ship and unleash hell on someone with railguns and missiles.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1734 - 2014-09-23 22:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Commissar Kate wrote:
I've been checking out all the new updates for Star Citizen as then have came out. Can't say as I'm really impressed as of yet by what's available, nothing really groundbreaking for me, but I suppose time will tell. I wish I could check out a few other ships as all I have is an Aurora and it seems pretty basic...

Would also like to try out missiles too but don't have those either. Are they high off-borsight capable or do you have to point your ship right at them to fire? Do they require a radar lock or do they have their own seeker and it automatically locks on to the nearest/largest target?

The main thing i'm interested in is how all these different gameplay options will integrate and interact with each other and how seamless it will be. As that seems to be the big deal about Star Citizen, not necessarily all of the individual modules but the whole package.

FPS module is least interesting one for me. I'd much rather get a large ship and unleash hell on someone with railguns and missiles.



Missiles are either infrared for heat detection or Friend or Foe if a lock cannot be achieved, and while you don't have to be directly behind the target to fire them, you have to see the target in order to have the means to achieve a lock and fire the missile in the case of IR ones, so it's not like the ship can be behind yours and you fire the missile and it finds the target on it's own...The most exaggerated case of off bore sight shooting.


It's easy to say on target by doing into decoupled mode and flying in 6 degrees of freedom where the ship moves in any direction along it's center line...Maintains it's original heading just before going into decoupled mode and never loses speed, as it should be when flying in space.


The FPS portion doesn't happen just on planet surfaces, but in boarding actions where once the target ships weapons, shields and propulsion has been disabled, it can be docked with and troops unloaded to capture the ship, and even then they have to be really careful about how they do it, since the interior of the ship can be damaged, to the point where if said troops are using grenades or any explosives of any kind and they're close to a window or a door leading to outer space, they can depressurize the whole section and kill everyone.


Ships will be able to enter the atmosphere under full pilot control and land( no it's not just a pre rendered sequence), and it may be possible in the future to help troops on the ground thru either orbital bombing or flying to the surface and support the troops in the same manner......Kind of like what Eve hinted at when they showed a dreadnaught doing it in dust 514, but all we got are frigates doing it for the time being...Ugh
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1735 - 2014-09-23 22:51:17 UTC


Capture the flag. The true staple of an immersion breaking experience.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1736 - 2014-09-23 23:00:34 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:


Capture the flag. The true staple of an immersion breaking experience.




The SC version is called capture the power core.....No the ship doesn't have a flag attached to it while going back to score...:p
Commissar Kate
NulzSec
#1737 - 2014-09-24 02:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Commissar Kate
digitalwanderer wrote:
Missiles are either infrared for heat detection or Friend or Foe if a lock cannot be achieved, and while you don't have to be directly behind the target to fire them, you have to see the target in order to have the means to achieve a lock and fire the missile in the case of IR ones, so it's not like the ship can be behind yours and you fire the missile and it finds the target on it's own...The most exaggerated case of off bore sight shooting.


Awesome, sounds kind of like the R-73 or AIM-9X.... You just look at the target, lock him and fire away. I do that all the time in DCS with my Su-27 and R-73s. Think its something like 60° off-boresight capable for the R-73.

My biggest thing is I try to fly a zero g craft like an atmospheric fighter where you have to deal with airspeed, AoA , drag and other things.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1738 - 2014-09-24 03:16:14 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Missiles are either infrared for heat detection or Friend or Foe if a lock cannot be achieved, and while you don't have to be directly behind the target to fire them, you have to see the target in order to have the means to achieve a lock and fire the missile in the case of IR ones, so it's not like the ship can be behind yours and you fire the missile and it finds the target on it's own...The most exaggerated case of off bore sight shooting.


Awesome, sounds kind of like the R-73 or AIM-9X.... You just look at the target, lock him and fire away. I do that all the time in DCS with my Su-27 and R-73s. Think its something like 60° off-boresight capable for the R-73.

My biggest thing is I try to fly a zero g craft like an atmospheric fighter where you have to deal with airspeed, AoA , drag and other things.



You can by staying in coupled mode, which is similar to flying a real plane except there's no stall speed to deal with obviously, but if you fly in a given direction and then go decoupled is where the fun really starts, since the ship keeps travelling in that direction with the main engine shut down and the ship never slows down either, and then you can go 6 DOF with the thrusters turning and moving side to side or up and down at will.


It's easy to keep targets within view, and the smaller the ship, the more agile it is.....It's nuts with an M50 racer even though it only has 2 guns and no missiles at all.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1739 - 2014-09-26 07:22:52 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
New Reclaimer salvage / mobile dockyard ship....Kinda handy after a big fight to salvage destroyed ships or repair friendly ships after a fight is finished....Looks like a brute and is a large ship and the concept goes up for sale at 350$:


http://i.imgur.com/cNXTXZ3.jpg


we'll know the actual dimensions tomorrow, but the 4 main engines in the picture are 60 meters long.....
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1740 - 2014-09-26 19:16:11 UTC
Updated video of the retaliator heavy bomber and there's still no textures on it at all, but already looks amazing exterior and interior wise....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw18M19BMSI


And yes, I own one of them already...Muhahahahahaha.