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Star Citizen v EVE

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Author
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#21 - 2013-07-15 13:15:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Cypherdog wrote:
I wonder how is EVE preparing to face the might of Chris Roberts' new MMO. I am a devoted "casual" EVE player and so far I managed to convince 1 player -my cousin- to join me in EVE, but lately we are having conversations about Star Citizen, and I am afraid I am going to loose my only wingman in space.
EVE has a decade of Lore and stories that players have written. EVE can hold massive battles in one single server. EVE is brutal, unforgiving. EVE is EVE.
But because most of us are familiar with Robert's Space Industries and games (freelancer, Wing Commander) , I wonder what is CCP's plan to counteract the loss of subscriptions to an MMO that promises (and surely deliver) a more personal and immersive space flying experience? The universe size will not be as big at launch, but in time, just like CCP did when player's are handed the tools to shape the universe, it will expand massively, and probably match most of he expectations of many scy-fi players.
I thought Incarna was a cool step to attract skeptical players and make the experience more personal. Why didn't The Mittani and henchmen expressed their negative opinions at the previous fanfest , when the Incarna facts were unveiled, instead of burning Jita and leave a fair chuck of designers and Devs unemployed. I could not wait for Incarna to be online. Alas, tradition proved more resilient than change. And Incarna will never come back....unless.... Star Citizen proves that it can be done.
Now I understand the prejudice against "spacebarbie" gameplay. But just like with everything in EVE, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it. (I am against the gtfo stance of most)
I still think that Dust 514is destined to fail. It won't do any favours to EVE. There's a game called Titan Fall, that is so reminiscent of Dust. And better imo.
I am a casual player, I see EVE from outside the box. My opinions are just the way I feel at the moment, and at the moment I see EVE going for another decade but significantly less strong after SC is launched.
Care to share your thoughts?



I don't think star citizen will be that big, however I hope some of the really aggro player move there and do their brainless pew pew pew... but I agree that incarna should have been pushed forward, however it was put down because some people here where afraid that they lose if the social part of the game gets more attention, looking at their social skills in the forums, a justified reason.

If CCP would not listen so much to those monkeys, EvE could already be much bigger then WoW or any other MMO out there, they would have brought girls to the game and the whole thing would be much more balanced, however girls are another thing some are afraid here, we just have seen that in an recent event.
Sarmatiko
#22 - 2013-07-15 13:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Cypherdog wrote:
Chris Roberts' new MMO.

- Is not MMO but rather session game a la WoT/Star Conflict with improved instanced lobby where you can PVE between matches.
- Devs are blinded with free kickstarter money and now any small addition cost 1M unlock. They clearly don't have any strong vision or plan.
-Set to "release" in "early 2015"

Taking these into account, no thanks, not interested.
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#23 - 2013-07-15 13:31:24 UTC
If it works on Mac! Get all excited about a game and it usually fails before a Mac client is ever made. I have to use a PC at working, I hate it, hate it, hate it! Freezes every other click.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.

Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#24 - 2013-07-15 13:35:25 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
If it works on Mac! Get all excited about a game and it usually fails before a Mac client is ever made. I have to use a PC at working, I hate it, hate it, hate it! Freezes every other click.


Defrag, optimise registry, antivirus, malwarebytes and stop cruising porn at work.

Mac isn't for business as it's next to impossible to network them. They are for those people who think Bang and Olufson make great hi-fi.
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#25 - 2013-07-15 13:42:03 UTC
Cypherdog wrote:
I wonder how is EVE preparing to face the might of Chris Roberts' new MMO. I am a devoted "casual" EVE player and so far I managed to convince 1 player -my cousin- to join me in EVE, but lately we are having conversations about Star Citizen, and I am afraid I am going to loose my only wingman in space.
EVE has a decade of Lore and stories that players have written. EVE can hold massive battles in one single server. EVE is brutal, unforgiving. EVE is EVE.
But because most of us are familiar with Robert's Space Industries and games (freelancer, Wing Commander) , I wonder what is CCP's plan to counteract the loss of subscriptions to an MMO that promises (and surely deliver) a more personal and immersive space flying experience? The universe size will not be as big at launch, but in time, just like CCP did when player's are handed the tools to shape the universe, it will expand massively, and probably match most of he expectations of many scy-fi players.
I thought Incarna was a cool step to attract skeptical players and make the experience more personal. Why didn't The Mittani and henchmen expressed their negative opinions at the previous fanfest , when the Incarna facts were unveiled, instead of burning Jita and leave a fair chuck of designers and Devs unemployed. I could not wait for Incarna to be online. Alas, tradition proved more resilient than change. And Incarna will never come back....unless.... Star Citizen proves that it can be done.
Now I understand the prejudice against "spacebarbie" gameplay. But just like with everything in EVE, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it. (I am against the gtfo stance of most)
I still think that Dust 514is destined to fail. It won't do any favours to EVE. There's a game called Titan Fall, that is so reminiscent of Dust. And better imo.
I am a casual player, I see EVE from outside the box. My opinions are just the way I feel at the moment, and at the moment I see EVE going for another decade but significantly less strong after SC is launched.
Care to share your thoughts?

I'm pretty excited for Star Citizen too. I actually came to EvE from playing Freelancer Crossfire mods. I'm a little cautious though... I was excited for Black Prophecy too... but that game played like crap. It wasn't much fun at all... and then they went crazy with the micro transactions... and then they went out of business and shut the server down. Years of development and hype for a game that went **** up in under a year. I was excited for Jumpgate Evolution too... years of development and hype for a game that turned out to be vaporware and was never even released. Lotta lawsuits there... but Chris Roberts has a reputation few can hold a candle to. The concept is awesome. I have a lot of questions about how certain things are actually going to work, as it seemed like Chris was promising everything to everyone... and I'm not sure how the sharding will work, or if there will be sharding. I know people will be able to run their own servers... so I suppose it depends on a lot of things. Sharding is a HUGE drawback for me. Also, I've become so accustomed to being a dirtbag in EvE I'm not sure if I'll playing for long if it is one shard Twisted I guess we just have to wait and see. I'm looking forward to it. If it's better than EvE I'll probably smell you cats later. If not, it'll become apparent in relatively short order.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#26 - 2013-07-15 13:49:14 UTC
I'm pretty excited about star citizen, though i think it's pretty early to be trying to compare it with EvE. I very much doubt it would have an effect on the playerbase mind, most EvE players have invested far too much to leave now. Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

De'Veldrin
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#27 - 2013-07-15 13:56:23 UTC
I give Chris Roberts mad props. His games have kept me entertained (quite literally) for years.

That said, I'll believe the hype when it's delivered.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#28 - 2013-07-15 14:00:02 UTC
Cypherdog wrote:
I see some just like to dismiss any new space game, because EVE is so "niche" and nothing can touch it. I hope that's not the same attitude CCP have towards EVE. I don't think because some of you are sure SC cannot make a dent on EVE, it will always be safe in it's niche. Or will it?


Yes, it will.

And we have evidence. 10 years of "omg this new thing will kill EVE" is an excellent predictor of future events given the health of the game. If EVE were in some kind of noticeable, measurable decline AND a new EVE like (not just spaceship) game were coming around, we and CCP would need to worry, maybe.

As that is not happening and Star Citizen will not allow players to do the things they can in EVE and vice versa. All the worry about SC is, like in multiple times in the past , completely unfounded.

It's just funny watching it happen over and over and over and over again. It's like watching those religious freaks who say the world will end on "X" date, and when it doesn't they just go back and "recalculate" a new date and start the cycle of doomsday saying anew lol.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-07-15 14:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Uoweme
SC is so far in the future it's like trying to comment on what Titan is, other than it's MMO 2.0.

It has potential of being the WoW of space games, but it won't be. There's things in it I feel are laboring, and won't hit that "wow" mark. The animations come to mind, again (so focused on the design, but forgetting what separates Disney animations from anime -- smooth flow and framerates. 9 million players are used to it, not what is looked at as "sandbox" quality. It's those little things like that, which can't be ignored either as it's so in your face, that sends players right back to WoW. Polish).

I liked what RIFT offered, especially dynamic world bosses; AoE looting and a better loot distribution system. But apart from that, the game wasn't different enough from WoW to stay on the content side. Plus, having to look at anime style animations with the flickering (READING THIS CCP), it was enough to go back to WoW. At least the flickering isn't there, the animations gamers look at for hours a night don't tire the eyes. I can play for 15hrs in WoW, my eyes don't tire to the same strobing effects that CRT monitors offered. After seeing the video of what SC offers, sure enough, it offers flickering animations. Like they directly cut and paste the animations they got from the body suits into the game. The keying is off, it's very much like anime. Fine in film/TV, horrible to the eyes and brain in a video game.

See? The little details that is overlooked for the design? Yet details that separate a labored game from one that is polished?

Starting a new game is an investment of the most precious commodity in gaming, time ("Time is money, friend"). If you already enjoy the time sinking in one game, and it's to your liking, the competing game has to offer something that is tolerable and enjoyable to players. If the little annoying things add up, it's no longer worth the time to play.

The ace EvE has is that it didn't spend it's time on the animations (until now, and now they see what can happen). On the WoW forums there's threads on the animations for years, but what they're not discussing is the real factor in why WoW is successful. The animations are smooth even on the lowest quality computers. The eyes don't get tired (or players suffer from vertigo). They can invest their time into a game for the long haul, and enjoy it.

Playing RIFT for 4hrs was all my eyes could handle. EvE without the gate animation, is like WoW, can fly and do the things I prefer without tiring. It's a long term friendly game (and you notice its one of the few 2004 games that survived? And it's not because it offered content, it's because players can play for hours upon hours without tiring...the animations don't take from gameplay).

So from the gate, SC has a problem. Graphics in itself can make or break a game. From what I saw, it's a 1 year game, again.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Elvis Fett
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-07-15 14:13:17 UTC
Who was a better man, Mahatma Gandhi or Santa Clause? Do you see the problem with my question? One is a very real person the other is not and never will be. Your question suffers from the same problem, one game is very real and has a growing customer base the other is vaporware that will never see the light of day. Not to mention if Chris Roberts had any faith in his game he would put more of his money behind it and quit begging for money on kickstarter. Also 14 mil is no where near enough to develop a MMO, which is where the kickstarter is at.
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-07-15 14:34:02 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Eve is dying because of Star Wars GalaxiesJumpgate EvolutionBlack ProphecyDarkfallThe Old RepublicStar Trek Online Star Citizen!


I suppose your message is that the 'EVE killers' list is growing, but EVE hasn't been killed off, yet?

Only WoW can Kill WoW, and only EVE can kill EVE - is what I think.

But I also think this. EVE Online is an incredibly detailed game. Listening to Chris Roberts in his presentation video, I get the sense that this game will also be incredibly detailed, including the PvP. It won't just be about click Orbit, and activate modules. See who get's the better role of the dice and win with more hits than misses - more good hits than grazing hits. Chris Roberts' PvP is gonna be about piloting skills too. How well can you maneuver your airplane and outperform your opponent? I think that will attract a lot of EVE PVP enthusiasts.

As for the SC universe being small? In EVE, exploration means finding a new Wormhole and looting what you find in it, occupying it, and doing whatever one does in EVE wormholes until you get out, and it collapses or whatever. Wormholes in EVE do not actually expand the EVE universe. However, in SC, exploration will give you all that, but it will actually expand the SC universe. The newly discovered jump-points to the newly discovered solar systems will be named after the players that find them. The galactic map will expand, and all players will be able to navigate through the newly discovered and persistent jump-point.

At least that's how I understand it.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#32 - 2013-07-15 14:42:50 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:


But I also think this. EVE Online is an incredibly detailed game. Listening to Chris Roberts in his presentation video, I get the sense that this game will also be incredibly detailed, including the PvP. It won't just be about click Orbit, and activate modules. See who get's the better role of the dice and win with more hits than misses - more good hits than grazing hits. Chris Roberts' PvP is gonna be about piloting skills too. How well can you maneuver your airplane and outperform your opponent? I think that will attract a lot of EVE PVP enthusiasts.


How do you get from point A to point B there. If a person is an EVE pvp enthusiast, he might not LIkE "manual flying" games, he might like being the CAPTAIN, not the pilot.

Even if SC appeals to EVE players, it won't come with some magical kill switch that deletes EVE. Many people play more than one game, a pvp player might play EVE for strategic level game play and the play SC the same night for lower level tactical style gameplay.

like all the games before it, SC will probably be ok, but it won't be EVE, and people will still play EVE because they like it. i'll be playing both (if SC is any good) in the same way i play EVE and Star Trek Online right now.
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-07-15 14:49:58 UTC
Elvis Fett wrote:
Who was a better man, Mahatma Gandhi or Santa Clause? Do you see the problem with my question? One is a very real person the other is not and never will be. Your question suffers from the same problem, one game is very real and has a growing customer base the other is vaporware that will never see the light of day. Not to mention if Chris Roberts had any faith in his game he would put more of his money behind it and quit begging for money on kickstarter. Also 14 mil is no where near enough to develop a MMO, which is where the kickstarter is at.


Chris Roberts has a product that is taking shape. Vaporware is something that hasn't even been worked on yet. Vaporware only exists on paper as a proposal. Star Citizen already has millions of lines of code written.

Anyone who puts so much of his own money into starting any kind of business that he has to mortgage his house, and live off of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches doesn't know how to start or grow a big business. Even Warren Buffet doesn't go into big business ventures alone. He gets backers to go in with him. He sells shares. You get other people to go into the business venture with you, so that if things don't work out, you don't have to live out of your car. You share the wealth if things go great, and you share the losses if things do not.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#34 - 2013-07-15 14:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
I wish SC and Chris Roberts all the best, I was a huge Wing Commander fan back in the day.

It may draw some Eve players away but I don't think it'll be a direct competitor for Eve, the "asshats and griefers" are what makes Eve different from the majority of other MMOs, and looking through the SC blurb that sort of thing won't be allowed to happen, at all.

I'll certainly be giving it a go myself, just as I will be giving Elite Dangerous a go (huge fan of Elite), but I don't think they'll be a competitor for my money, I think one or both of them will be more of a supplement to my Eve addiction.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-07-15 14:55:52 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:
Elvis Fett wrote:
Who was a better man, Mahatma Gandhi or Santa Clause? Do you see the problem with my question? One is a very real person the other is not and never will be. Your question suffers from the same problem, one game is very real and has a growing customer base the other is vaporware that will never see the light of day. Not to mention if Chris Roberts had any faith in his game he would put more of his money behind it and quit begging for money on kickstarter. Also 14 mil is no where near enough to develop a MMO, which is where the kickstarter is at.


Chris Roberts has a product that is taking shape. Vaporware is something that hasn't even been worked on yet. Vaporware only exists on paper as a proposal. Star Citizen already has millions of lines of code written.

Anyone who puts so much of his own money into starting any kind of business that he has to mortgage his house, and live off of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches doesn't know how to start or grow a big business. Even Warren Buffet doesn't go into big business ventures alone. He gets backers to go in with him. He sells shares. You get other people to go into the business venture with you, so that if things don't work out, you don't have to live out of your car. You share the wealth if things go great, and you share the losses if things do not.


Blizzard started as 2 kids in college with a dream. They ran the business in the beginning on over extended credit cards, never knowing if they could make payroll. But they lucked up and found a mentor in another business (that was aimed at kids), and learned some excellent ropes about marketing and distribution.

The rest is history.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Adunh Slavy
#36 - 2013-07-15 14:58:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Anyone can make a lot of promises. Delivering on them is harder.



Yep, Eve's been living on potential for years

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#37 - 2013-07-15 14:59:52 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:
Elvis Fett wrote:
Who was a better man, Mahatma Gandhi or Santa Clause? Do you see the problem with my question? One is a very real person the other is not and never will be. Your question suffers from the same problem, one game is very real and has a growing customer base the other is vaporware that will never see the light of day. Not to mention if Chris Roberts had any faith in his game he would put more of his money behind it and quit begging for money on kickstarter. Also 14 mil is no where near enough to develop a MMO, which is where the kickstarter is at.


Chris Roberts has a product that is taking shape. Vaporware is something that hasn't even been worked on yet. Vaporware only exists on paper as a proposal. Star Citizen already has millions of lines of code written.

Anyone who puts so much of his own money into starting any kind of business that he has to mortgage his house, and live off of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches doesn't know how to start or grow a big business. Even Warren Buffet doesn't go into big business ventures alone. He gets backers to go in with him. He sells shares. You get other people to go into the business venture with you, so that if things don't work out, you don't have to live out of your car. You share the wealth if things go great, and you share the losses if things do not.

Absolutely agree with Inokuma ^

Chris Roberts is the real deal. He really does love this **** and it shows. ...and what a track record! I still think Freelancer was probably one of the most enthralling games I played up to that time. They made a frickin' movie based on Wing Commander (which I actually thought wasn't that bad... or at least not as bad as most people think it was! Lol). He's put his whole reputation on the line to say that he's going to redefine a genera he essentially created himself. It's a tall order, and it's true that what actually gets delivered is a mystery to us right now, but don't discount him out of hand. Roberts is the ONLY guy with any credibility when it comes to delivering the game he proposed. I'm cautiously optimistic. I guarantee you I'll be giving the game a good run Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Snexwang Wnaganan
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-07-15 15:02:25 UTC
Why not both?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2013-07-15 15:08:07 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Anyone can make a lot of promises. Delivering on them is harder.



Yep, Eve's been living on potential for years


EVE is too huge and diverse for it ever to be developed as fast as we would like. You can't just make changes to mechanic x and at the same time develop mechanic y completely seperately and asume that there won't be any problems. We know this, because it's what CCP used to do and oh god the bugs!

Thus there is a limit to the rate of change that can sensibly be applied no matter how many people you throw at the problem because of the need for testing the combined effects. (It's an NP! type problem.)

Let's say that there are eg: 20 discrete groups of features that can be worked on (eg: "Drones", "Invention", "Mining", "Lag", "Sovereignty", "COSMOS", etc , etc.), and that CCP can only reasonably work on eg: 4 in any one expansion. That means that on average, each group only gets looked at in any serious way in only one out of every 5 expansions. Everyone feels that their particular issue is horribly neglected even though things are being updated as quickly as reasonably possible.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Prince Kobol
#40 - 2013-07-15 15:10:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Anyone can make a lot of promises. Delivering on them is harder.



Yep, Eve's been living on potential for years


EVE is too huge and diverse for it ever to be developed as fast as we would like. You can't just make changes to mechanic x and at the same time develop mechanic y completely seperately and asume that there won't be any problems. We know this, because it's what CCP used to do and oh god the bugs!

Thus there is a limit to the rate of change that can sensibly be applied no matter how many people you throw at the problem because of the need for testing the combined effects. (It's an NP! type problem.)

Let's say that there are eg: 20 discrete groups of features that can be worked on (eg: "Drones", "Invention", "Mining", "Lag", "Sovereignty", "COSMOS", etc , etc.), and that CCP can only reasonably work on eg: 4 in any one expansion. That means that on average, each group only gets looked at in any serious way in only one out of every 5 expansions. Everyone feels that their particular issue is horribly neglected even though things are being updated as quickly as reasonably possible.




On the other hand you take something major Pos's and Drones which near enough everybody who plays Eve interacts with, which have been broken for years and do absolutely nothing about it :)