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Politics and Feuds in Running Incursions.

Author
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#41 - 2013-07-15 03:38:44 UTC
Andski wrote:
killing a mothership to complete a finished incursion isn't griefing

keeping an incursion open and preventing other people from using that constellation, on the other hand...





Good God I'm gonna have to burn my keyboard. I actually agree with a goon on something.


He's right. Keeping the mothership in space while grinding the incursion is outright wrong. How do I know? Because when we were popping them to make a point about the incursions (early 2012 this was) the hate coming from the "entitled" players who had an ISK fountain and refused to admit it was very strong.


OK so highsec incursions provide a lot of ISK, and people are going to argue back and forth about incursions versus tech moons and all that. I get it.

But not engaging the mothership solely for the purpose of grinding the combat sites - these people know exactly what they are doing and any "reason" or excuse otherwise is outright bullshitting.

Were it up to me, the mothership would have a short duration time, and if it went away without being destroyed, there would be ZERO LP rewards for the entire incursion, and only 100 percent LP payout for those who actually engaged the mothership. Those who do not engage it would only get a payout based on the percentage of total sites they were involved in.

Letting the leader of an incursion get away, ignoring it to collect ISK, is game-breaking and against the concept of the incursion: you are supposed to destroy the enemy.


You see, it's true that popping the mom is NOT greifing. Why? It's simply not. But, real greifing is not find some hapless noob and driving him out of the game "for the lulz". That's street-level noobs greifing noobs and pretending they are leet. It's crap. It's taking candy from a baby.

Real good griefing is when you have people who set themselves up with a sense of entitlement, game a mechanic to snatch every last little ISK or advantage out of it, then when YOU act within the boundaries of the game mechanic they get butthurt and will come up with the most vile things to say to you, showing their weakness and their lies. That is good griefing! The lengths they went through with to stop the anti-mom fleet the last time was epic (and failed).


Now I know there will be more butthurt but again, what are people doing with all this ISK? Are they stupidly lobbing Tengus into gate camps all day? I don't think so. High sec incursion ISK-snatcher elitists are as bad as nullsec carebears getting butthurt over an AFK cloaker putting a damper on their anom-running.




Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-07-15 03:42:43 UTC
Sam Ruger wrote:
Could someone either explain to me the exact nature of the hostility between the 2 main fleets of Shield Tanked incursion groups. I know one got the word shiny in their name and I cant remember the others name. Does this same animosity exist in the armor tanked fleets?


Well, it's like any other sandbox. Some kiddies place nice together. Others, not so much. Who knew ? Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-07-15 03:43:09 UTC
I should start a roleplaying group that considers The Nation its greatest enemy and slays motherships wherever they appear without haste while prohibiting its pilots from flying Sansha abominations like Nightmares

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#44 - 2013-07-15 03:51:21 UTC
Andski wrote:
I should start a roleplaying group that considers The Nation its greatest enemy and slays motherships wherever they appear without haste while prohibiting its pilots from flying Sansha abominations like Nightmares




Of all the epic butthurt that could be done in highsec, popping those moms, you guys chose instead to gank freighters in Jita.


Makes me wonder if incursions are merely a sop to keep the high-skilled and high ISK players out of your backyard.


Would really suck if that ISK was used to finance incursions into goon space, no?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Joan Greywind
The Lazy Crabs
#45 - 2013-07-15 03:58:38 UTC
Just so it's clear, ISN will pop moms from time to time, but they will never pop it early and will never pop the last mom in highsec (effectively killed any income). We are first and last an incursion community and see no benefit in killing the mom. Killing the mom is actually the least efficient site to do. Nowadays ISN are in a mom site only when we know it is in withdrawal, or someone is already going to do it and we are just contesting them.

Well here you go, if you have any more questions go ahead and ask maybe I can make this clearer.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#46 - 2013-07-15 04:03:44 UTC
Andski wrote:
I should start a roleplaying group that considers The Nation its greatest enemy and slays motherships wherever they appear without haste while prohibiting its pilots from flying Sansha abominations like Nightmares

Would the group also be a bunch of dirty blobbers?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-07-15 04:34:01 UTC
Joan Greywind wrote:
Just so it's clear, ISN will pop moms from time to time, but they will never pop it early and will never pop the last mom in highsec (effectively killed any income). We are first and last an incursion community and see no benefit in killing the mom. Killing the mom is actually the least efficient site to do. Nowadays ISN are in a mom site only when we know it is in withdrawal, or someone is already going to do it and we are just contesting them.

Well here you go, if you have any more questions go ahead and ask maybe I can make this clearer.


i'm curious why do you run incursions when you're in a wormhole alliance

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-07-15 04:51:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
I should start a roleplaying group that considers The Nation its greatest enemy and slays motherships wherever they appear without haste while prohibiting its pilots from flying Sansha abominations like Nightmares


Not the disminish what you most likely can accomplish but weren't you guys doing this some time ago and then just stopped for whatever the raeson might be?

I might have that story all wrong.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-07-15 05:05:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
I should start a roleplaying group that considers The Nation its greatest enemy and slays motherships wherever they appear without haste while prohibiting its pilots from flying Sansha abominations like Nightmares


Not the disminish what you most likely can accomplish but weren't you guys doing this some time ago and then just stopped for whatever the raeson might be?

I might have that story all wrong.


I don't know of any mothership killing campaign led by Goonswarm. I know that our incursion SIG headshot a mothership and got some scrubby incursion group (BTL I think?) angry and they talked about "funding our enemies" or whatever, so they did another headshot and laughed at them. Then they decided that banning our entire alliance *gasp* from running incursions with them would be a suitable punishment, even though Goonswarm members wouldn't be allowed to join incursion gangs anyway because we have ongoing wardecs all the time. vOv

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#50 - 2013-07-15 05:25:18 UTC
I thought incursion groups were dead and the incursion communities were completely demolished by the nerf in income? Or do the blogs/tumblrs/twitters lie to me once again?

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-07-15 06:28:26 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Makes me wonder if incursions are merely a sop to keep the high-skilled and high ISK players out of your backyard.


Would really suck if that ISK was used to finance incursions into goon space, no?


ahahaha yes, clearly the loosely organized incursion runners who cry about dying to rats are a major threat to our space empire

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-07-15 06:33:47 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Would really suck if that ISK was used to finance incursions into goon space, no?


You're seeing it too? That the game is being tailored around them. Much like EQII was tailored around a few avatar guilds? Much like WoW and it's heroic raiders at the expense of everyone else?

That anything that could be ingame money to fight is being nerfed or curtailed?

Then all of sudden a territorial war is about mats? Just like before with Technetium?

One trick ponies that really need to get off the teet.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-07-15 06:38:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Now I know there will be more butthurt but again, what are people doing with all this ISK? Are they stupidly lobbing Tengus into gate camps all day? I don't think so. High sec incursion ISK-snatcher elitists are as bad as nullsec carebears getting butthurt over an AFK cloaker putting a damper on their anom-running.


And who are those "ISK-snatcher elitists"?

Notice how many high-sec Goon players are around?

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#54 - 2013-07-15 13:18:45 UTC
So... you got into the fanciest PVE boat ever, but your boss says you can't shoot the boss... ok then. Straight
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#55 - 2013-07-15 13:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Andski wrote:
I should start a roleplaying group that considers The Nation its greatest enemy and slays motherships wherever they appear without haste while prohibiting its pilots from flying Sansha abominations like Nightmares


Not the disminish what you most likely can accomplish but weren't you guys doing this some time ago and then just stopped for whatever the raeson might be?

I might have that story all wrong.


I don't know of any mothership killing campaign led by Goonswarm. I know that our incursion SIG headshot a mothership and got some scrubby incursion group (BTL I think?) angry and they talked about "funding our enemies" or whatever, so they did another headshot and laughed at them. Then they decided that banning our entire alliance *gasp* from running incursions with them would be a suitable punishment, even though Goonswarm members wouldn't be allowed to join incursion gangs anyway because we have ongoing wardecs all the time. vOv




Some background for you. (not in the posted order though). Blast from the past. All you need to know, complete with mullet.


Krissada

I really liked this CSM because he can rant better than I can


Darius III and butthurt

ohh that's cold, man. Cold (had to add this)


We touched your mom



Bears Fight Back

Uh, no.

And finally, a confession...

I still want to know why you guys would sooner gank freighters than pop moms. (imagine a third party seeing this terminology and thinking "WTF are they talking about?")


tl;dr at one time even the incursion runners thought they were OP and that prolonging them was too OP for ISK earning, and CCP did the usual "non nerf" my changing the payout for sites so vanguards could not be hyper-blitzed by shineys.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#56 - 2013-07-15 14:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Joan Greywind wrote:
Just so it's clear, ISN will pop moms from time to time, but they will never pop it early and will never pop the last mom in highsec (effectively killed any income


The bold underlined is incorrect because they have done both before, but not lately ( past few months ) which is a releif.
Incursioners have our lil dramas, politics & feuds, but compare it to NULL's BIG dramas, politics & feuds- git the fuek outta herez Blink
Drama, feuds & politics are part & parcel of EVE and in null those thing are always magnified compared to HI SEC.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#57 - 2013-07-15 14:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Andski wrote:

I don't know of any mothership killing campaign led by Goonswarm.


It happened about a year & a half ago ( so yes to answer your ignorance of it it has been done ) and Goons are still banned from my Incursion channel over it ( we got long memories), but we have a few Goon alts that I know of still in the channel. TBH I miss a few of the Goons that used to run in TDF ( /me waves to Villy Lol )
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#58 - 2013-07-15 14:29:55 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


tl;dr at one time even the incursion runners thought they were OP and that prolonging them was too OP for ISK earning, and CCP did the usual "non nerf" my changing the payout for sites so vanguards could not be hyper-blitzed by shineys.


But they didn't change how the HQ's could be hyper-blitzed by shields only Vanguards blitzed by Armour fleets.
Since most NULL mains running Incursion are more armour skilled then shield skilled this stemmed the bleed off a bit from NULLquite a bit & FW buff happened which out Monty Hauled Incursions' ISK per hour by a magnitude at its peak
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-07-15 14:42:03 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
I still want to know why you guys would sooner gank freighters than pop moms. (imagine a third party seeing this terminology and thinking "WTF are they talking about?")


Simple. Resource control.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#60 - 2013-07-15 15:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
DarthNefarius wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


tl;dr at one time even the incursion runners thought they were OP and that prolonging them was too OP for ISK earning, and CCP did the usual "non nerf" my changing the payout for sites so vanguards could not be hyper-blitzed by shineys.


But they didn't change how the HQ's could be hyper-blitzed by shields only Vanguards blitzed by Armour fleets.
Since most NULL mains running Incursion are more armour skilled then shield skilled this stemmed the bleed off a bit from NULLquite a bit & FW buff happened which out Monty Hauled Incursions' ISK per hour by a magnitude at its peak



Ah. That's new information to me. I didn't keep up with things after the era of those links I posted. Thanks.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!