EVE General Discussion

@Rells: I'm really not sure on what side I want to be here. On the one hand you're right, there's plenty of people who are just too damn afraid to try. On the other hand, just because people can pvp doesn't mean they will do so. Perhaps that particular gameplay just doesn't interest them. Some like to build castles, some like to tear them down. Does that make a high sec trader or miner automatically inferior just because he's in high sec?

There is one clear reason why people in Eve cant do PvP. The simple reason is because they believe they can't. Once you have made up your mind that something can't be done, you will not be able to do it. You will then be in the grip of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Because you dont think it can be done you wont do your best, you will hold back at critical junctures, hesitate at the important moment or pull back when you should press the attack.

I founded Agony Unleashed with my alt Keersom (RIP) in .. was it 2006? Time flies. For years I captained the corp before turning it over to Bamar who has now passed it on to Gizznitt. During that time we proved conclusively that conventional wisdom was what comes out of the south end of a northbound male bovine. I originally founded Agony because I was sick of being told to get in a big battleship (at the time they were the flavor of the year) and sit at 150km sniping at opponents. I thought that there was a better way to play the game, that frigs could be made to hurt the opponent.

I believe agony was a principal player in changing pvp in eve to make people think more out of the box. We took out classes of people who had never fired at another player. We put them in tech 1 frigs fitted with market cheap stuff and proved to them that if they coordinated their communication, their tactics and their fit, they could destroy opponents with years of skillpoints in massively expensive ships. People constantly tried to use smartbombs on the frig fleets and lost their expensive battleship for their efforts. We flew into null sec space with crowds of rookies and fleets learned to avoid the class gangs. In the process we taught playyers about communication, scouting, recon, ship fitting for teamwork and so on.

At one point a class was started to fly destroyers. The forums flamed like a supernova at the announcement. In the first encounter with an eagle, the covert ops scout dropped us 10km off the eagle and only 3 of my guns went off. The 20 destroyers in the gang, flown by newbie pilots, vaporized the expensive HAC in a single shot. Later the class grew and at one point the 30 destroyer class (near the max manageable limit) got into a fight with multiple battleships and HACs and destroyed them all. Sure they took casualties but all were elated. We remembered to tell the rookie pvp pilots to breathe afterward because we knew the people behind the computers would be shaking from adrenaline.

Later agony pilots fitted up some tech 1 frigs and had a bit of fun. They sat off a gate and waited to be attacked by a passing interceptor. What the interceptor didn't know is the pilot of the frig was waiting for just this occurrence. There is no rush in eve quite equal to killing an interceptor with a tech 1 frig and any pilot that can fit tech 2 weapons can do it with the right skills and tactics. I just hawe to lafe of what a lott of players in this game think of as pvp.I hawe don pvp in other gams.and ther pvp always meant that outcome of a battel nevervas a given thing before the battel had started.To shoot down a cnon combatt ship or fleet up to gank a singel ship hawe notthing to do whid pvp.the same whid a bigg alliance going against a singel corp it just piraci-ganking.I think most of the hardcore pvp gamers in other games wold just lafe att a lott of the players in this game...(nott all ther must be som players in this game to that deserv to be kalled a pvp player).

We were a small corp and often confronted with largely superior forces. Imagine the massive gate camps with tackler interceptors, interdictors and other ships. Now imagine they are rendered importent by a gang of 15 destroyers with long range weapons. All of their smal craft must flee or die. Tactics prevail.

And the ultimate in possibilites occurred when agony discovered whenever they went out Razor alliance would come after them with 60 HACs. With no more than 20 people online at the time, it was quite the challenge. Imagine the astonishment of our neighbors when the word went out that Agony wiped out almost the entire fleet with less than 20 pilots. Nothing in gaming can top that kind of rush.

When you say you can, when you believe it, you will find a way. When your opponent becomes predictable, they are easy to defeat. When your opponent uses standard tactics, they can be defeated. Defeat wont always be wiping out the whole fleet or destroyeing their POS. It might be just making their lives miserable. When a high sec corp is war deced by another and turns tail, the war dec corps wins. When they fight back with tactics, skill, coordination and goals, they make the war dec corp withdraw their dec with losses and the high sec corp gains respect.

I have no respect for sheep. But i have the highest respect for the small little wolverine that makes the grizly bear think "im not THAT hungry"

In there lies the key. Winning in Eve isnt a matter of skill points or isk. Its a matter of intelligence, understanding of psychology and proficiency at the arts of war.

This explains a lot, thanks.

[quote=Arthur Aihaken] You are insignificant to the real PvPers in the game.

@Rells: I'm really not sure on what side I want to be here. On the one hand you're right, there's plenty of people who are just too damn afraid to try. On the other hand, just because people can pvp doesn't mean they will do so. Perhaps that particular gameplay just doesn't interest them. Some like to build castles, some like to tear them down. Does that make a high sec trader or miner automatically inferior just because he's in high sec?

Frankly, I find that attitude appalling. There should be a clear risk vs. reward, i.e. someone who risks more should also have the possibility of gaining more. However, just because someone chooses a non-pvp type of gameplay that person isn't inferior to the "leet pvper" by default. Industrialists can have teeth, they can just choose not to use them all the time.

One more thing - who said it's high sec that's the problem? You have carebears all over the gamescape that will dock up / run for pos / safe the moment a non-blue enters their system. How are they any less risk averse than a high sec carebear? Just a food for thought on that "closing low sec to high sec sheep" thing. The "sheep", as you put it, aren't necessarily in high sec at all...