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AFK cloakers "working as intented"?

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KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-07-12 14:42:10 UTC
Lol, he got you by the balls, mine in another system maybe?

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#22 - 2013-07-12 14:42:25 UTC
Vol Volume wrote:
Sure hes not a treath when hes afk, but if he happens to come back one in 60 minutes to check for anyone who hav dared to go mining. If you wanna gamble whit your mining ships then go ahead, but if you lose mining ship every 2-3 hours its gonna cost you way more than you make, where is the risk/isk value there?


Idk about you, but a Retriever doesn't cost me more isk than I can make in 3 hours...

So, why are you expecting safety to mine in nullsec? Please tell me, by what merit are you arguing to be immune to the actions of others?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ruezer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-07-12 14:45:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruezer
I'll give you the business perspective on this. People that extort players by AFK cloaking their systems pay their monthly fee/plex for that account.

If they change cloaking to something fuel based/cycle based, how many AFK cloaking accounts will they lose? I'll give you an answer, more then the people who whine about AFK cloaking and say they are gonna quit and dont.

I've got an AFK cloaker in my system as of right now. Tonight, I'm putting up a cyno jam in the system, and getting back to business. I can kill a stealth bomber with a mining fleet, easily.

EDIT: And to be more clear, I hate the AFK cloaking mechanic, but it's EASY to counter. Once they find out that they'll lose more ships trying to kill you then they kill, they'll go find easier targets.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#24 - 2013-07-12 14:47:02 UTC
Vol Volume wrote:
Sure hes not a treath when hes afk, but if he happens to come back one in 60 minutes to check for anyone who hav dared to go mining. If you wanna gamble whit your mining ships then go ahead, but if you lose mining ship every 2-3 hours its gonna cost you way more than you make, where is the risk/isk value there?


Psst, buddy, nullsec is designed to be risky. If you can't handle it, toddle off back to highsec.

There are, after all, dozens of ways in which you can handle it - people are already flooding this topic with such practices, but you refuse to do any of them and instead insist CCP change the entire game to suit your bad playstyle?

Fly in a group with some in combat or logistics ships - this makes you a less desirable target, and helps you fight off or survive attackers.

Move to a different area - if the person is afk or not paying attention, they wont see you leave, and wont follow.

Etc.

Simply crying and asking CCP to change it all for you is so pathetic and childlike I can't believe people still do it.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#25 - 2013-07-12 14:50:16 UTC
Ruezer wrote:
I'll give you the business perspective on this. People that extort players by AFK cloaking their systems pay their monthly fee/plex for that account.

If they change cloaking to something fuel based/cycle based, how many AFK cloaking accounts will they lose? I'll give you an answer, more then the people who whine about AFK cloaking and say they are gonna quit and dont.

I've got an AFK cloaker in my system as of right now. Tonight, I'm putting up a cyno jam in the system, and getting back to business. I can kill a stealth bomber with a mining fleet, easily.

EDIT: And to be more clear, I hate the AFK cloaking mechanic, but it's EASY to counter. Once they find out that they'll lose more ships trying to kill you then they kill, they'll go find easier targets.


It's not even a matter of "losing" subs by disallowing it, it's a matter of balance.

Requiring fuel for cloaks, or timers/cycles, etc is massively, MASSIVELY unbalanced. It very badly breaks numerous active playstyles. Cloaks aren't solely used by people who pester the terribads like OP - they're also used for scouting ahead, for reconnaissance, for setting up strategic locations, bombing runs, countless other things. Ideas like fuel or cap requirement destroy these playstyles - and for what? Because OP is a coward who has no right to the rewards of nullsec? Pleaaaaaase
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-07-12 14:50:42 UTC
Vol Volume wrote:

i get scrambler and shot down in 10-15s.


Read my other reply. (hint #13). A properly tanked Mining barge or exhumer will not die to a lone stealth bomber in 10-15 seconds. A lone stealth bomber however CAN go pop from a flight of light drones in 10-15 seconds.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#27 - 2013-07-12 14:51:17 UTC
TL;DR Response:

* AFK Cloaking is a player response to the perfect intel tool, which is local.
*An AFK player is no threat to you.
*There are many reasonable precautions you, as a miner or ratter, can take to go about your life in the presence of a potential cloaked threat.
*CCP will never fix what isn't a problem, so learn to use the tools already available to you to deal with the issue.
*learn to laugh at afk cloakers and see them for what they are, an attempt to disrupt your gameplay. (Which btw, is a legitimate game tactic when it comes to nullsec operations)

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Ruezer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-07-12 14:58:19 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Ruezer wrote:
I'll give you the business perspective on this. People that extort players by AFK cloaking their systems pay their monthly fee/plex for that account.

If they change cloaking to something fuel based/cycle based, how many AFK cloaking accounts will they lose? I'll give you an answer, more then the people who whine about AFK cloaking and say they are gonna quit and dont.

I've got an AFK cloaker in my system as of right now. Tonight, I'm putting up a cyno jam in the system, and getting back to business. I can kill a stealth bomber with a mining fleet, easily.

EDIT: And to be more clear, I hate the AFK cloaking mechanic, but it's EASY to counter. Once they find out that they'll lose more ships trying to kill you then they kill, they'll go find easier targets.


It's not even a matter of "losing" subs by disallowing it, it's a matter of balance.

Requiring fuel for cloaks, or timers/cycles, etc is massively, MASSIVELY unbalanced. It very badly breaks numerous active playstyles. Cloaks aren't solely used by people who pester the terribads like OP - they're also used for scouting ahead, for reconnaissance, for setting up strategic locations, bombing runs, countless other things. Ideas like fuel or cap requirement destroy these playstyles - and for what? Because OP is a coward who has no right to the rewards of nullsec? Pleaaaaaase



I understand that subs are not the only reason, I just posted the business side of it as stated in my post. But what you are saying is spot on IMO
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#29 - 2013-07-12 14:59:45 UTC
I would like to see a hourly timer on station in all of eve that kicks people out after 1 hour of not undocking. I can't stand people who dock up and go afk and then undock and come out and kill me. If the developers would make them undock while AFK then I would have a chance to either run or kill them.

someday when you cross over you will look back and read your post and laugh and realize you have been riding on the short bus licking windows with your helmet on to tight. Best defense below

" The day a AFK player kills me is the day I quit eve". HTFU. ( plus I will give him all my stuff to bad he won't be at his computer to except the trade)
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#30 - 2013-07-12 15:00:07 UTC
Yeah, basically no matter which way you look at it, there isn't a good reason to nerf cloaks the way people always propose
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-07-12 15:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What your real issue is, dear Bad EVE Player, is your own crippling cowardice and risk averse mentality. You understand that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat, and want it removed. Well sorry but that's not how it works. Nullsec is inherently risky and full of uncertainty - if you don't like this, go back to highsec.

Hope this helps



This, a thousand times this. If you will only engage in the game - rather than play a single-player spreadsheet - you'll find it far more interesting.

ie. finding out who the afk is by only ever having a 'bait' fleet out mining. It really doesn't take much or long to find out when their 'active' times are, and once they bite, you'll be able to quickly determine if they are solo or alts.

Then, say for instance the afk cloaker is a cyno pilot, you will find who they are aligned with, where that group stages, and their active times. You could even *gasp* put an 'afk' scout in their staging system to watch for when they are forming or ready to drop.

But doing any of that would require you to actually engage in the game, and you just want to mine peacefully. You should try some single-player space games where you hold down a button while facing an asteroid until your cargo is full. That sounds a little more your speed. I 'played' one of those once with a 'macro' (read: rock on keyboard).

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Baroness Vulna
Armada vi Vulnezia
#32 - 2013-07-12 15:02:31 UTC
Everyone has a great point but the bottom line is that AFK cloaking is faulty in the game only because there is no "counter" to it.

AFK mining , its easy and its legal to do but there are ways other players can counter AFK miners by bumping or ganking.

AFK travel, its easy, lazy, legal to do but there are in game counters to it called ganking

AFK missions, was countered when they changed the NPC AI to attack drones

AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.

My team at Vulnezia university have already discovered a counter to AFK cloakers.

It's called ACW or Anti Cloak Warfare

A "depth charge" module is fit to a destroyer class ship and has "depth charges" . It is used to hunt down and probe out any kind of cloaked vessel. It is not perfect and takes patience but in the right hands a destroyer can hunt down and destroy an AFK cloaker.

Now if i can just get CCP to buy my "depth charge" module idea i will be filthy rich!

brought to you by -Barony of Vulnezia MMO micro nation- www.vulnezia.com Be a part of the world's first MMO Micro Nation
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#33 - 2013-07-12 15:03:45 UTC
Ten billion threads on this topic....

Sorry, Ten billion and one...

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#34 - 2013-07-12 15:07:01 UTC
Baroness Vulna wrote:
Everyone has a great point but the bottom line is that AFK cloaking is faulty in the game only because there is no "counter" to it.

AFK mining , its easy and its legal to do but there are ways other players can counter AFK miners by bumping or ganking.

AFK travel, its easy, lazy, legal to do but there are in game counters to it called ganking

AFK missions, was countered when they changed the NPC AI to attack drones

AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.

My team at Vulnezia university have already discovered a counter to AFK cloakers.

It's called ACW or Anti Cloak Warfare

A "depth charge" module is fit to a destroyer class ship and has "depth charges" . It is used to hunt down and probe out any kind of cloaked vessel. It is not perfect and takes patience but in the right hands a destroyer can hunt down and destroy an AFK cloaker.

Now if i can just get CCP to buy my "depth charge" module idea i will be filthy rich!


You dont need a counter to afk cloaking because they are AFK so cant hurt you Roll Once they have returned and are NOT afk, then you have a counter. Drones, ecm or combat, fleet support, any of the above mentioned. Roll


The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-07-12 15:07:41 UTC
Baroness Vulna wrote:
Everyone has a great point but the bottom line is that AFK cloaking is faulty in the game only because there is no "counter" to it.

AFK mining , its easy and its legal to do but there are ways other players can counter AFK miners by bumping or ganking.

AFK travel, its easy, lazy, legal to do but there are in game counters to it called ganking

AFK missions, was countered when they changed the NPC AI to attack drones

AFK cloaking.... anything?....waiting..... nope ....still no counter to it. the AFK cloaker has all the power. I am all for AFK cloaking but i am also for in game counters to it.

My team at Vulnezia university have already discovered a counter to AFK cloakers.

It's called ACW or Anti Cloak Warfare

A "depth charge" module is fit to a destroyer class ship and has "depth charges" . It is used to hunt down and probe out any kind of cloaked vessel. It is not perfect and takes patience but in the right hands a destroyer can hunt down and destroy an AFK cloaker.

Now if i can just get CCP to buy my "depth charge" module idea i will be filthy rich!


The obvious counter to afk cloakers is to remove local. You can do this yourself by minimizing the channel.

Also, your idea does not scale, it is bad.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#36 - 2013-07-12 15:08:03 UTC
what about adding fuel to the mining lasers?

Or, better, make them deactivating at each cycle and make miner forcing to win a minigame, solve a puzzle or a catchpa to reactivate them. Just to be sure they're at their keyboards.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#37 - 2013-07-12 15:08:39 UTC
And how did you prove he was AFK?

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#38 - 2013-07-12 15:09:13 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Yeah, basically no matter which way you look at it, there isn't a good reason to nerf cloaks the way people always propose


Yes there is, the reason being "cloaky people scare me and I don't pay 15 bucks of my hard earned pizza deliveryman money per month to be scared!"

Oh, I'm sorry, you said GOOD reason, nvm then. Big smile
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#39 - 2013-07-12 15:11:11 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
What your real issue is, dear Bad EVE Player, is your own crippling cowardice and risk averse mentality. You understand that a cloaked player represents an unknown level of threat, and want it removed. Well sorry but that's not how it works. Nullsec is inherently risky and full of uncertainty - if you don't like this, go back to highsec.

Hope this helps



This, a thousand times this. If you will only engage in the game - rather than play a single-player spreadsheet - you'll find it far more interesting.

ie. finding out who the afk is by only ever having a 'bait' fleet out mining. It really doesn't take much or long to find out when their 'active' times are, and once they bite, you'll be able to quickly determine if they are solo or alts.

Then, say for instance the afk cloaker is a cyno pilot, you will find who they are aligned with, where that group stages, and their active times. You could even *gasp* put an 'afk' scout in their staging system to watch for when they are forming or ready to drop.

But doing any of that would require you to actually engage in the game, and you just want to mine peacefully. You should try some single-player space games where you hold down a button while facing an asteroid until your cargo is full. That sounds a little more your speed. I 'played' one of those once with a 'macro' (read: rock on keyboard).


Your description reminded me of Starmade (a kind of minecraft in space). It actually is rather fun (and free!). But alas, there are cloaks in that game too :(
Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#40 - 2013-07-12 15:11:59 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
And how did you prove he was AFK?


Bit hard to prove i guess when you are afk in station Lol

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........