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Requesting EvE Prisons for Scammer and Traitors!

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darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2013-07-12 14:26:43 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
How about CCP just release WiS once it is ready, and when someone scams or annoys me, I dock at his station, leave my ship, kick down his CQ door and just punch his smug face in?
Much easier and much more satisfying.


He peed on the Dude's rug!

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#122 - 2013-07-12 14:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
darmwand wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
How about CCP just release WiS once it is ready, and when someone scams or annoys me, I dock at his station, leave my ship, kick down his CQ door and just punch his smug face in?
Much easier and much more satisfying.


He peed on the Dude's rug!


Donnie, please...

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Inokuma Yawara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-07-12 14:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Inokuma Yawara
darmwand wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

I think about it for obious scam mechanics nown in the game, if somebody uses those then the opposite party gets a voting right against that player like a killright you receive when shotdown in nullsec


But that's the problem - even the obvious scam mechanics aren't necessarily obvious to the computer. Maybe somebody just doesn't have the ISK to cover the buy order (margin trading scam), was aware that he was paying too much for a ship in a trade window or was rejected from a corp after paying a recruitment fee for a good reason. Otherwise I could just send you a few million ISK, claim you scammed me by not doubling it and get an angry mob to imprison you...


I don't believe there are "scam mechanics". The scams are real scams created by the player, and other players really do fall for them. It's not something you learn from a skill book and level up. There are no "scam skills" in game.

That's part of the reason that the computers can't figure out what's a scam and what is not. Computers may not be smart enough to understand the difference between a scam and someone who made a mistake. In fact, as is proven time and again is that people always figure out how to use computers to do their dirty work for them. It's why online scams are so common in real life.

In real life there are no software to detect scams. To detect malware, viruses, and the like, yes, but to detect scams? All that you'll see from security firms is advice on how to spot scams. In game, reality is reflected. There are no systems to detect scams. It depends on the experience and awareness of a person to realize when he's being scammed.

Watch this space.  New exciting signature in development.
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2013-07-12 14:51:04 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:
That's part of the reason that the computers can't figure out what's a scam and what is not. Computers may not be smart enough to understand the difference between a scam and someone who made a mistake. In fact, as is proven, time and again, is that people always figure out how to use computers to do their dirty work for them. It's why online scams are so common in real life.


Which is why other games don't have this as game play in games. What's the petition wait time in EvE again?

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
darmwand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2013-07-12 14:51:33 UTC
Inokuma Yawara wrote:

I don't believe there are "scam mechanics".


Indeed, poor choice of words on my side.

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#126 - 2013-07-12 14:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Inokuma Yawara wrote:
That's part of the reason that the computers can't figure out what's a scam and what is not. Computers may not be smart enough to understand the difference between a scam and someone who made a mistake. In fact, as is proven, time and again, is that people always figure out how to use computers to do their dirty work for them. It's why online scams are so common in real life.


Which is why other games don't have this as game play in games. What's the petition wait time in EvE again?


Still shorter than WoW, EQ2, Defiance, SWTOR, or, you know, any of the other ones.

[Edit: Also, you can still totally scam people in those games. All you have to do is misrepresent the value of your goods within the mechanics allowed. I used to scam people in WoW all the time, by your definition. Most people on my server would charge 30g for a mage port, I charged 40. I guess I was a scammer... Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2013-07-12 14:57:02 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Harry…don’t let these forum warriors get or beat you down. I for one appreciate your unique perspective thought and ideas and content and freshness you bring to the game and forums.

This is a hell of a lot better than the no stop trolling they can only offer thread after thread.

Keep fighting the good fight. Big smile


thanks! felt like beaten down dog, but your comment made me happy again! :D

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#128 - 2013-07-12 14:59:41 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Cipher Deninard wrote:
Horrible idea. The point is that this game is a sandbox. Players do what they enjoy doing, if that includes scamming and awoxing then that is up to them.


Again, folks are missing the idea of what a sandbox is -- players would want a prison as well. Being that it is a sandbox game, those mechanics and game play are equally valid.

Cops and robbers gameplay is classic and works in concept and reality.

Really want to be a criminal RP the part, but there's risks vs rewards to also think about (and criminals aren't babies that need devs to hand hold them to even play).

If players want a prison system then it's up to the players to build one, and all the necessary infrastructure to support it. If Harry want to punish scammers then he has to do it using the existing mechanics, instead of asking CCP to do it for him.

I can already think of 2 obvious ways to bypass any prison in Eve, jumpclones and self destruction. We're supposedly immortal so committing suicide to bypass a prison sentence is trivial.


Maybe you don't know how scamming works....

1) Get a crappy alt
2) Spam all day
3) Some idiot falls for scam
4) Spam all day
5) Another idiot
6) Spam all day
7) another idiot
8) .... and so on and so forth
9) Biomass
10) Rinse and repeat

No undocking is nowhere in the list so no "game mechanic" is there for any "Retribution". Now the idea is putting in an actual risk for something that is well riskless.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#129 - 2013-07-12 15:11:26 UTC
Milan Nantucket wrote:


Maybe you don't know how scamming works....

1) Get a crappy alt
2) Spam all day
3) Some idiot falls for scam
4) Spam all day
5) Another idiot
6) Spam all day
7) another idiot
8) .... and so on and so forth
9) Biomass
10) Rinse and repeat

No undocking is nowhere in the list so no "game mechanic" is there for any "Retribution". Now the idea is putting in an actual risk for something that is well riskless.
I know how the scams work, although I can think of several "scammers" that would disagree with how you think they work. I'll even give you a couple of names of "scammers" that undock, Miilla and Erotica 1, both of which I am sure would love you to try and gain some retribution.

Scams only work because the "mark" is too stupid or greedy to read properly.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#130 - 2013-07-12 15:15:41 UTC
Zappity wrote:
We really need a new Troll Posts subforum.


And perhaps a UO-type mini-game in the CQ to cater for the Op.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#131 - 2013-07-12 15:19:06 UTC
Thorn Galen wrote:
Zappity wrote:
We really need a new Troll Posts subforum.


And perhaps a UO-type mini-game in the CQ to cater for the Op.

Candy Crush would be more his speed.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#132 - 2013-07-12 15:22:55 UTC
Akto Katelo wrote:
OP - just imagine an situation which is now and then very often - ganking.

What will prevent some gank squaq to vote to jail absolutely honest and not-scamming capsuleers?

If for example some corp with 500+ people will send corpletter to all with order to vote for XYZ, just because he dont paid "protection" fee?

Where is court? Where are judges?

Anyway, I think if is there some jail for scammer really set up (by some miracle or whatewer), than there should be also some detention facility for people who let them to be scammed, some lunatic-asylum kind of camp for this mindless people...



the voting right is linked to a game mechanic, not all people can just vote to get someone into prison, I'm sure the scam tactics can be put into a mechanic, at least the biggest ones, they can be identified by the computer, most are known, so if those tactics are yoused and you got scammed you just get a voting right that can be used to bring the person to prison in case alot of those voting rights are happening against that special scammer

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2013-07-12 15:23:02 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I want a new game mechanic implemented however this may need to be discussed with a broader audience in GD first.
Its pretty simple, there should be a possibility to catch pods and bring them to an ingame Prison. Those Prisons should be Time Capsules where the catched player has to stay for some time. I would say 1 day up to 1 week

various features could be implemented that catching other players do not get too easy. Maybe need of special modules, having at least 5-10 people involved in the capturing process, and a special prison fee

please add your ideas, this should bring consequences to the game for liars, traitors and scammers. I feel those are needed because they are missing at the moment!

Edit: maybe they should still be able to do basic stuff like mining, lets say if they mine a certain amount for the guy who took them to prison, then they are free upfront

Edit: the prison mechanic could also be implemented by a special voting system, maybe scammed people can go together and vote, however there would need to be a mechanic to identify scammed people, so you get a voting right comparable to killrights


In the other thread, I only suspected you were trolling. Now I'm almost certain. Nobody is this dumb.

If you have been trolling, please accept my 'grats on a job well done.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#134 - 2013-07-12 15:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Cipher Deninard wrote:
Horrible idea. The point is that this game is a sandbox. Players do what they enjoy doing, if that includes scamming and awoxing then that is up to them. That is what players love about EVE. How many thousand players joined the game after huge scams and thefts from in game were published on the internet? Ever wonder why that is?

You also have the issue of who would continue to pay for a game when they get stuck in a prison and can only mine. Most people don't want that and you would get a lot of unsubs.

I find it amusing that you post such a clearly ridiculous idea in GD claiming that you want feedback from a wider audience and then anyone who tries to point out its flaws and explain how it wouldn't work just gets shouted at for being unhelpful and then blocked. Ever heard of constructive criticism? In this case we are constructively telling you that this idea would never ever work and would hurt EVE.


you just see one side of the coin, now people who get scammed also need to grind their way up again to get the isk they lost, do they leave the game because of that?

it is not constructive to call the idea stupid, therefore all who just do that without any deeper thought about it, will get blocked

scammers are just treated like babies in EvE, they have no consequences, and if some bring an idea to add some, they cry big elephant tears, thats the only thing amusing

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2013-07-12 15:27:16 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Honestly, this would be as fruitless as a war on drugs. All you would get is overcrowded digital prisons and start a corrupt for profit prison business that would spread throughout the virtual court system, CONCORD, and our elected CSM's. All to punish people who really weren't much of a detriment to our online society.


If you look at EvE itself, it is a prison to begin with. "Anything goes" behind the bars, with the guard (devs) keeping them inside.

All that is missing is lockdown (solitary confinement).

Even America's Army has Fort Levenworth in it's game, for egregious team killers.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell
Scooter McCabe
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2013-07-12 15:28:10 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I want a new game mechanic implemented however this may need to be discussed with a broader audience in GD first.
Its pretty simple, there should be a possibility to catch pods and bring them to an ingame Prison. Those Prisons should be Time Capsules where the catched player has to stay for some time. I would say 1 day up to 1 week

various features could be implemented that catching other players do not get too easy. Maybe need of special modules, having at least 5-10 people involved in the capturing process, and a special prison fee

please add your ideas, this should bring consequences to the game for liars, traitors and scammers. I feel those are needed because they are missing at the moment!

Edit: maybe they should still be able to do basic stuff like mining, lets say if they mine a certain amount for the guy who took them to prison, then they are free upfront

Edit: the prison mechanic could also be implemented by a special voting system, maybe scammed people can go together and vote, however there would need to be a mechanic to identify scammed people, so you get a voting right comparable to killrights


I want your posting privileges stripped after reading this garbage. Go back to WoW or something.
Manfred Hideous
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#137 - 2013-07-12 15:29:27 UTC
Ace Uoweme wrote:
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Honestly, this would be as fruitless as a war on drugs. All you would get is overcrowded digital prisons and start a corrupt for profit prison business that would spread throughout the virtual court system, CONCORD, and our elected CSM's. All to punish people who really weren't much of a detriment to our online society.


If you look at EvE itself, it is a prison to begin with. "Anything goes" behind the bars, with the guard (devs) keeping them inside.

All that is missing is lockdown (solitary confinement).

Even America's Army has Fort Levenworth in it's game, for egregious team killers.


We have lockdown. It's when you lose your staging system and are suddenly impoverished because of the isk you had tied up in those assets. :)
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#138 - 2013-07-12 15:30:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Scooter McCabe wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
I want a new game mechanic implemented however this may need to be discussed with a broader audience in GD first.
Its pretty simple, there should be a possibility to catch pods and bring them to an ingame Prison. Those Prisons should be Time Capsules where the catched player has to stay for some time. I would say 1 day up to 1 week

various features could be implemented that catching other players do not get too easy. Maybe need of special modules, having at least 5-10 people involved in the capturing process, and a special prison fee

please add your ideas, this should bring consequences to the game for liars, traitors and scammers. I feel those are needed because they are missing at the moment!

Edit: maybe they should still be able to do basic stuff like mining, lets say if they mine a certain amount for the guy who took them to prison, then they are free upfront

Edit: the prison mechanic could also be implemented by a special voting system, maybe scammed people can go together and vote, however there would need to be a mechanic to identify scammed people, so you get a voting right comparable to killrights


I want your posting privileges stripped after reading this garbage. Go back to WoW or something.


thanks for the feedback an your very thoughtful insight, welcome to my blocklist

discussing with you was a real pleasure

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#139 - 2013-07-12 15:31:50 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
I'm right, I know I'm right and anybody that tells me that I'm not right is wrong and clearly an idiot, I shall block them because they're idiots and because they're wrong.

Pull your head out of your arse Harry, your idea is silly, you've been told it's silly by multiple people and yet you still believe that your suggestion has merit.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#140 - 2013-07-12 15:31:58 UTC
Scooter McCabe wrote:
I want your posting privileges stripped after reading this garbage. Go back to WoW or something.


Did you ever play WoW? Because today it's harder than EvE to play.

I can't do the things I can do even in a PvP centric game in EvE in WoW...the NPCs will just kill you itself for fun.

_"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." _ ~George Orwell