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Are any Amarr frigates fit for low-skill PVP?
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Miles Winter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-07-11 09:33:38 UTC
I'm a relatively new player focusing on Amarr ships; as far as frigates go, is there anything I can use to contribute in PVP with only about 1 week's worth of training?

In other forums I've been told to just forget about even trying to PVP as Amarr unless I'm flying battleships or better, but I figured it'd be best to get a wider range of opinions from here.

[I'd like to focus on solo PVP situations, potentially in wormhole space, as well as high-sec faction warfare and skirmishes with RvB fleets.]
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#2 - 2013-07-11 09:47:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tul Breetai
They're all doable, but other races tend to get better bang for your skillpoints until higher levels. Amarr frigs might take a bit more pilot skill as well, but where else are you gonna learn? Train t2 pulse lasers and t2 armor tank asap, and just get out and practice.

Edit: actually, convo me. I learned with amarr as well and can give you some fits/suggestions, maybe a little practice if you're up to itTwisted

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Miles Winter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-07-11 09:53:05 UTC
Well, I've got less than a day's training currently. I probably won't have T2 -anything- until a couple months from now.

What I'd like is to just hop in some cheap frigate with a decent setup. Give me a week to actually get some skills and an outfitted ship and I may take you up on the offer for some PVP fights.
Whitehound
#4 - 2013-07-11 10:27:11 UTC
Yes.

Simply put: in the worst cases do you provide a target to shoot at.

But if not then you will win a few fights, be making friends and experiences.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#5 - 2013-07-11 13:14:32 UTC
Executioner as fast tackle (long point + MWD) for a gang

Crucifier as EW support (tracking disruptors are great)

Punishers are actually great in frigate gangs; their only real downside is the lack of a web.

Tormentors are pretty good scram-range kiters and ~do~ have a web; you'd need a few drone skills for it though.
Miles Winter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-07-11 13:16:32 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Tormentors are pretty good scram-range kiters and ~do~ have a web; you'd need a few drone skills for it though.


Would it perhaps be better to move up to the Arbitrator for this?
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-11 13:33:18 UTC
For somewhat heavier-duty PVP, the Arbi can be pretty good, if you've made a good investment in drone and other support skills - but it's not a ship for someone who's only a week into training. The Dragoon destroyer is probably a decent intermediate step if you're thinking of going that route.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-07-11 15:12:19 UTC
Amarr frigs are really rather mediocre tbh

The tormentor isn't bad though. You can use that, the only thing you really must have is t2 guns (I would recommend training support skills and such untill you can use the ship at a 80-90% efficiency before trying to pvp in it though...)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#9 - 2013-07-11 15:53:42 UTC
Amarr ships realyl need good nav skills, and good gunnary skills. Ideally you want to be able to use T2 Pulse lasers of any ships your flying. Don't worry so much about armor tank. Armor tanking is usually the wrong way to fly your ship solo / small gang. As it stands most of the amarr ships are flown shield tanked, or with a speed focused small armor tank.

Some examples:

Executioner
Slicer
Omen
Navy Omen
Harbinger
Navy Harbinger
Oracle
Zealot

All of those ships will function much better in a small gang / solo setting using a shield / small armor tank setup. So don't worry too much abou armor, unless you have a really interest in big fleet flights- put armor skills on the back burner.
Cable Udan
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2013-07-11 19:01:10 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Amarr ships realyl need good nav skills, and good gunnary skills. Ideally you want to be able to use T2 Pulse lasers of any ships your flying. Don't worry so much about armor tank. Armor tanking is usually the wrong way to fly your ship solo / small gang. As it stands most of the amarr ships are flown shield tanked, or with a speed focused small armor tank.

Some examples:

Executioner
Slicer
Omen
Navy Omen
Harbinger
Navy Harbinger
Oracle
Zealot

All of those ships will function much better in a small gang / solo setting using a shield / small armor tank setup. So don't worry too much abou armor, unless you have a really interest in big fleet flights- put armor skills on the back burner.


All of my 'whats?'

Ignore this chump; armour tanking is fine for solo and the small gang pvp.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#11 - 2013-07-11 21:55:20 UTC
Get T2 pulse asap - scorch is too good to pass up.

If you are in a small gang then forget a scram on the 2 mid slot frigs and fit a web. Hell I fly without a scram on a lot of my 2 mid slot frigs and people just don't seem to notice. Shocked Not complaining mind you as lasers have excellent damage projection.

The tormentor is probably the most effective amarr T1 (outside of navy) frig once to have the skills to utilise it fully.
Executioner is a great little ship to learn tackling and kiting in. Craps all over slicers in 1v1's Twisted (allough there are a lot of people who argue this)
Punisher is an awesome ship if you ignore the haters and learn to fly the damn thing. It is a funcky little boat and require a slightly different mindset than what most players are capable of using but it is good. Bloody awesome in small gangs

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Miles Winter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-07-11 23:11:33 UTC
Could you go into detail about what makes the Punisher 'finicky'?

So far it sounds like the Tormentor is the best choice for solo PVP work; though I'll be making do without T2 anything for quite a while - Small laser spec 1 is about a week worth of training to reach by itself, let alone all the support skills (which run up around 2 months to reach level 5).
Sir Spottington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-07-11 23:58:07 UTC
once you have the skills a vengance with two t2 reps are evil little things.

ive always done better with amarr frigs in pvp than other empires ships but everyone has a different play style and favorite so its worth taking the time to play with them all and finding what you like best.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#14 - 2013-07-12 01:36:40 UTC
Miles Winter wrote:
Could you go into detail about what makes the Punisher 'finicky'?

So far it sounds like the Tormentor is the best choice for solo PVP work; though I'll be making do without T2 anything for quite a while - Small laser spec 1 is about a week worth of training to reach by itself, let alone all the support skills (which run up around 2 months to reach level 5).


Get small pulse laser spec to 4 asap. Laser boats need scorch to give them the ability to hit out to full scram range (or more in cases like the slicer), once you have this then start on the support skills (take them to 4 at first) once they are at 4 you'll be a pretty well skilled pilot then you can work on maxing them out at a slower pace.

The punisher is 'finicky' because it has only 2 mid slots. So that means you have to decide how to fly it before you fit it. My normal fit has a mwd and scram in the mids. It is a tanky little ship and can hit hard anywhere within scram range. But a lot of people don't like it because it only has 2 mids. I often also fly it without the scram and put a web on it. That way I have some range control and can sit at my optimal and melt things really fast. The web also stops some of the tracking issues that lasers have at times. you'd be surprised how many frig fights the opponents don't even realise they are not scrammed and just stick around anyways.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Miles Winter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-07-12 03:46:07 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
The punisher is 'finicky' because it has only 2 mid slots. So that means you have to decide how to fly it before you fit it. My normal fit has a mwd and scram in the mids. It is a tanky little ship and can hit hard anywhere within scram range. But a lot of people don't like it because it only has 2 mids. I often also fly it without the scram and put a web on it. That way I have some range control and can sit at my optimal and melt things really fast. The web also stops some of the tracking issues that lasers have at times. you'd be surprised how many frig fights the opponents don't even realise they are not scrammed and just stick around anyways.


I'll have to give the web+mwd build a shot.

Now, can Amarr frigates punch much above their weightclass, or are they stuck fighting solely other frigates 1 on 1?
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#16 - 2013-07-12 09:14:21 UTC
Miles Winter wrote:
Could you go into detail about what makes the Punisher 'finicky'?

So far it sounds like the Tormentor is the best choice for solo PVP work; though I'll be making do without T2 anything for quite a while - Small laser spec 1 is about a week worth of training to reach by itself, let alone all the support skills (which run up around 2 months to reach level 5).



train the skills too only lvl 4 or 3. no need too go for 5 just yet. (except for the t2 pulse, get that as soon as your able)

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#17 - 2013-07-12 09:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Cable Udan wrote:

Ignore this chump; armour tanking is fine for solo and the small gang pvp.


Kiting is, especially in fw space, quite a great thing. A mwd-long point executioner can bleed out mostly any brawlfrig/dessi (coercer aside) that he might fight, having issues against none but really competent slasherpilots/similiar. Might even scrap the tank and invest some SP into tracking disruption right away.

Would give you the crucifier as a fleet supportship right away - anything amarr bigger than a frigate is quite out of the question for start right out. Pulses are pretty useless without scorch, which requires Tech 2 guns.

Clearly you should start with a pile of ships and learn about 'target selection' :)
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-07-12 15:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
Miles Winter wrote:
Could you go into detail about what makes the Punisher 'finicky'?

So far it sounds like the Tormentor is the best choice for solo PVP work; though I'll be making do without T2 anything for quite a while - Small laser spec 1 is about a week worth of training to reach by itself, let alone all the support skills (which run up around 2 months to reach level 5).



The punisher only has two midslots but you need three midslots to field proper tackle (Scram/web/prop) and thus it is absolute garbage that can be killed by a exploration frig.


Here i will make a list of Amarr t1/navyships that aren't garbage

Tormentor
Crucifier
Slicer
Coercer
Dragoon
Navy Augoror
Harbinger
Prophecy
Navy harbinger
All battleships

(Executioner honorable mention as its not strictly garbage but just not very good)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Miles Winter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-07-12 17:41:10 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

The punisher only has two midslots but you need three midslots to field proper tackle (Scram/web/prop) and thus it is absolute garbage that can be killed by a exploration frig.


Here i will make a list of Amarr t1/navyships that aren't garbage

Tormentor
Crucifier
Slicer
Coercer
Dragoon
Navy Augoror
Harbinger
Prophecy
Navy harbinger
All battleships

(Executioner honorable mention as its not strictly garbage but just not very good)


I like this list - what would you consider the least skill-intensive of these ships? At a guess I'd go with the drone-based ones (Which, correct me if I'm wrong - is the Dragoon). This is based on the assumption that the laser ships, as stated earlier, require T2 pulse with scorch lenses; while drone ships can function without the equivalent type of training.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-07-12 18:19:32 UTC
Miles Winter wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

The punisher only has two midslots but you need three midslots to field proper tackle (Scram/web/prop) and thus it is absolute garbage that can be killed by a exploration frig.


Here i will make a list of Amarr t1/navyships that aren't garbage

Tormentor
Crucifier
Slicer
Coercer
Dragoon
Navy Augoror
Harbinger
Prophecy
Navy harbinger
All battleships

(Executioner honorable mention as its not strictly garbage but just not very good)


I like this list - what would you consider the least skill-intensive of these ships? At a guess I'd go with the drone-based ones (Which, correct me if I'm wrong - is the Dragoon). This is based on the assumption that the laser ships, as stated earlier, require T2 pulse with scorch lenses; while drone ships can function without the equivalent type of training.


Least skill intensive? Uhm probably the Coercer and the Dragoon.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

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