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Caldari missioner's future (crosstrain)
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Dariusz Betonowy
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-07-09 10:46:35 UTC
Hi,
right now I am doing missions in a CNR for which I slowly finish skilling up, although that will come sooner or later. I'd like to know your opinions about what should I replace the CNR.
Should it be:
- Golem (I don't mind spewing cruise missiles some more, and TP bonuses and on-the-fly salvaging would be neat).
- Crosstrain to Gallente and fly Gila/Ratter/Navy Domi to get some drone action,
- Crosstrain to Minmatar for the Fleet Phoon, to get the best of missile and drone worlds.

I did not consider Amarr at all yet, they do have some spiffy missile boats though, and I know that FIRING MAH LAZORS can be pretty damn destructive...
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-07-09 11:06:51 UTC
if you start from the CNR, there are not so many upgrades to begin with. both the golem and navy phoon have their ups and downs (one obvious disadvantage being more hassle with managing drones/painters/salvagers). the way it stands now, the CNR is very competitive; it will outgun even the four pirate battleships at long enough ranges, so the only argument against it would be that it doesn't fit your play style.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#3 - 2013-07-09 11:14:27 UTC
Cross train Amarr and fly the Nightmare. The only pirate faction it wont destroy is angels, and your CNR can handle them.
Mycael
Air
The Initiative.
#4 - 2013-07-09 11:18:40 UTC
Can we have a sticky on Mission & Complexes forum where Paikis can recommend Nightmare for missioning.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-07-09 11:30:04 UTC
Mycael wrote:
Can we have a sticky on Mission & Complexes forum where Paikis can recommend Nightmare for missioning.


Well, Mach is probably better against Angels/Guristas. Guristas have really bad salvage so wouldn't do missions in Caldari space.
Dariusz Betonowy
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-07-09 11:32:26 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
the way it stands now, the CNR is very competitive; it will outgun even the four pirate battleships at long enough ranges, so the only argument against it would be that it doesn't fit your play style.

It does fit my play style. Even juggling painters and counting volleys is not that tedious, you could even classify it as a stress managing technique when coupled with pulsing the XLSB (really).
Nightmare... it might be interesting, Ammatar space is just a stone throw from where I dwell... although I'm not going to make assumptions about what I'm going to do in more than 3 months...
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-07-09 11:51:02 UTC
Defensively, the Rattler is probably a nice match to a typical Caldari mission-runner's skill-set; it's got the bonuses for a great active tank or an honest-to-goodness passive shield tank. The problem is that you've got to do some major-league investing in drone skills to get it up to par offensively - without T2 sentry drones and Drone Interfacing V, it falls a bit short in the gank department. The Dominix or Navy Domi require the same skill investment to be effective.

Going Minmatar might make a nice change of pace, I suppose; you've got the standard Typhoon and the Fleet Typhoon, both of which can leverage your missile skills, but both of which are more effective as armor-tankers than shield-tankers. There's also the Maelstrom, which uses pretty much the same defensive skill-set as the Raven/CNR, and is a great platform for learning the pros and cons of battleship gunnery.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Nour Aerilon
Inhumanum Legionis
#8 - 2013-07-09 12:28:35 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Defensively, the Rattler is probably a nice match to a typical Caldari mission-runner's skill-set; it's got the bonuses for a great active tank or an honest-to-goodness passive shield tank. The problem is that you've got to do some major-league investing in drone skills to get it up to par offensively - without T2 sentry drones and Drone Interfacing V, it falls a bit short in the gank department. The Dominix or Navy Domi require the same skill investment to be effective.

Going Minmatar might make a nice change of pace, I suppose; you've got the standard Typhoon and the Fleet Typhoon, both of which can leverage your missile skills, but both of which are more effective as armor-tankers than shield-tankers. There's also the Maelstrom, which uses pretty much the same defensive skill-set as the Raven/CNR, and is a great platform for learning the pros and cons of battleship gunnery.



The Fleet Typhoon have some nice options actually. I shield tank mine and deliver 800 Missile DPS to BC and up. 350-450 Drone DPS to Cruiser and down. Works very well. Range is about 110km for both weapon systems



Only works if u minimize tank and make use of a faction Omni.
Dariusz Betonowy
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-07-09 19:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Dariusz Betonowy
Many thanks for all the responses. I consider them "seeds of knowledge" which will become very useful one day. I have, actually, totally forgotten about the Maelstrom - I've heard it does work pretty well for a lot of missions, and I have a friend or two missioning in those.

I would like to know more about drone boat viability for missioning overall, since the new drone AI. I don't know too much how drones apply their damage...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-07-09 19:21:11 UTC
sentry drones are the best weapon system

immune to ewar, best tracking of all long range weapons and no ammunition.

Art of Explosions
Nour Aerilon
Inhumanum Legionis
#11 - 2013-07-09 20:22:38 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
sentry drones are the best weapon system

immune to ewar, best tracking of all long range weapons and no ammunition.



Have to agree with this
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2013-07-10 00:18:39 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Mycael wrote:
Can we have a sticky on Mission & Complexes forum where Paikis can recommend Nightmare for missioning.


Well, Mach is probably better against Angels/Guristas. Guristas have really bad salvage so wouldn't do missions in Caldari space.


Mach is not great against Guristas, CNR will do it better. Loot is not bad for Guristas, that's where all the meta 4 425mm rails and Meta 4 large blatsers come from and they aint cheap. But I guess bad is a perception.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2013-07-10 00:20:57 UTC
Mycael wrote:
Can we have a sticky on Mission & Complexes forum where Paikis can recommend Nightmare for missioning.



Rumor has it he has one tattooed across his chest...
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2013-07-10 01:52:44 UTC
sentries cap out at 800 thermal dps, perfect weapon for an alt, not the best main weapon system though.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Dariusz Betonowy
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-07-10 06:58:07 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sentries cap out at 800 thermal dps, perfect weapon for an alt, not the best main weapon system though.

And you can have this on a cruiser ;>
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-07-10 07:38:09 UTC
Dariusz Betonowy wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sentries cap out at 800 thermal dps, perfect weapon for an alt, not the best main weapon system though.

And you can have this on a cruiser ;>


Gila, Ishtar and Navy Vexor can all field 5 sentry drones, with perfect skills and 4 T2 drone damage amps you get 800 DPS with Grade II.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Nour Aerilon
Inhumanum Legionis
#17 - 2013-07-10 08:19:54 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sentries cap out at 800 thermal dps, perfect weapon for an alt, not the best main weapon system though.



And u apply all of it up to 85 km
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-07-10 08:34:22 UTC
Nour Aerilon wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sentries cap out at 800 thermal dps, perfect weapon for an alt, not the best main weapon system though.


And u apply all of it up to 85 km


I don't think you get 85km optimal with Garde II, their default optimal is 30km.

You can easily get 85km optimal with sentry drones, the only drones that by default comes close to 85km are Warden II, and with 4 drone damage amps they only do 600 DPS. Bouncer II with 4 drone damage amps and 2 omni links has 700 DPS and 90KM optimal.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-07-10 08:55:04 UTC
dexington wrote:
Nour Aerilon wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
sentries cap out at 800 thermal dps, perfect weapon for an alt, not the best main weapon system though.


And u apply all of it up to 85 km


I don't think you get 85km optimal with Garde II, their default optimal is 30km.

You can easily get 85km optimal with sentry drones, the only drones that by default comes close to 85km are Warden II, and with 4 drone damage amps they only do 600 DPS. Bouncer II with 4 drone damage amps and 2 omni links has 700 DPS and 90KM optimal.



You not flown the new domi i see

Art of Explosions
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-07-10 09:32:46 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
You not flown the new domi i see


You are right if you use 4 low and 3 mid slots, you are able to deal 800 dps at 85km range, with the dominix.

Garde II has 45km unmodified optimal range with perfect skill in the dominix, with 2 omni tracking links it's 68km and with 3 it's 78km which makes optimal plus falloff 90km.

But if you sacrifice the tank needed to free up the 7 slots needed for range/tracking/dps, can't most battleship do 800 dps at 85km?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
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