Skill Discussions

First of all, you should skill up for 5 years and if you still feel the same, then we'll talk.

Eve is still here after 10 years because of it's insane grind. There's a great sense of achievement when you get there. Most MMOs don't have this grind, look where they are now.

How about you use some RL skills to beat someone with more in-game skills? Wouldn't that be a sufficient challenge and wouldnt require waiting?

It's more than possible to do.

Your math is correct of course, but it means a lot more than you pretend it does. Having 100m SP in subcaps means you can have perfect support skills all around, all Tech 1 hull skills at V, and all weapon skills maxed save maybe the T2 spec skills all at IV. That means you have 98% or better of the (SP-driven) performance level of anyone you run up against, in any subcap Tech 1 hull, with any weapon system in the game. That's nowhere near "10 years" of SP, more like 4-5 years. It's still a fair slog though.

The reason having that level of SP matters is that CCP never stops screwing things up, and when they do screw up it takes years for them to own up to it and fix the stuff they broke. If you can fly everything at an equally high effective SP level, then it is trivial to "adapt," as everyone who has this sort of breadth in combat related SP is so fond of glibly advising everyone who doesn't have it to do. When adapt means dock up and "make active" on another hull, and undock with the exact same performance level you had in whatever else you were just in, then of course it is the all too easy and obvious thing to do.

The problem for new players comes when they spend three or four or six months training something, only to see it stomped in the gooch just when they were getting to where they could use it at its full pre-nerf potential. And as always, if they dare to complain about this, the universal answer is "adapt or GTFO." So they "adapt" by spending another three or four or six months training something else up, only to have the same thing happen again. It's at this point that "GTFO" starts to look pretty good.

That right there is the number one big ass shiny red invitation to quit our game and never come back that CCP hands out to new players on a regular basis. If those players stick around for a year or three and get over the hump, and if they reach that point where they have 50 or 80 or 100m SP, so that change no longer matters, and every change gives them a little win somewhere to make up for every little fail it brings, then they too can shrug it off and tell others to "just adapt" when it inevitably happens again.

The fact is that a lot of newer players starting EvE today will never reach this level of "adaptability," and they will simply move on to games where the cost of "adapting" is an order of magnitude lower, or where "adaptation" (meaning shelving everything you just did for six months and spending another six months training to do something completely different) is not viewed as the universal answer to every ham fisted attempt at "balancing" that comes down the pike.

if you actually believe this is true then I feel bad for you son.
a good pilot with 10mil SP will beat the crap out of a terrible pilot with 150mil SP every time.

And the belittling continues... Who are you to tell me I'm going too fast? I'm a pretty fast learner I'll have you know, and now the only choice I have is to buy a character if I'd like to knock a chip out this SP wall CCP have erected over 10 years.

Thank you, nice to know there are Veterans who can leave their pride out of the discussion.

I contributed quite a bit in the other thread just to find it buried in moronic replies to the original thread (despite the thread's evolution), trolling and bittervet denial of the problem. Starting a new one with a more sensible approach might be a good idea, at least it should remove the first of those 3 annoyances :).


The thing is, people are RIGHT in that you can play actively and contribute nicely with only few SP, provided you find a decent corp to take you in. However, that's a HUGE precondition right there, as decent corps are quite rare and it's rather difficult for a complete noob to tell the competents from the scrubs. For every corp out there that will teach you how to contribute early, there are 10 or more, that 'teach' you, you should aim for that T2 battleship for lvl4 missions (instead of for example creating fleets for ABC+T1 logi, which can do the job as well or better).

The sad truth is, a LOT of luck is involved in finding a good corp and until you do, you could as well be flying solo for all the good it does. Which means you need to cover for a lot of eventualities, which in turn means you need tons of SP.

With that massive random element involved, it can't really come as a surprise that a lot of new players quit before they have a chance at their epiphaneous moment - meeting a (group of) decent player(s) worth teaming up with.


EVE has yet to learn that the secret to player retention is to give them something worthwhile to do from the very start even or especially when flying solo, because despite the game being an MMO we start as individuals and need good reasons to team up with complete strangers, but good reasons does not mean being forced by necessity.

This may come as a surprise to you, but there's a veritable HOST of people out there, who play the game for its (awfully underdevelopped) PvE and only occasionally PvP, if at all (unless forced, obviously).

Iirr, even the big nullsec blocks pale in comparison to the numbers in highsec.


And even when looking purely at PvP, you are probably underestimating the involvement of battleships in the great scheme, as WHEN the big coalitions fight, they bring substantial numbers, as seen in fountain right now.

What about an Anti-Frigate bait Tornado with medium turrets and dual webbers? I've lost count of how many of those I've encountered... Or the Battleships that will sit 100k out from anywhere and snipe any unsuspecting victim?

OK forget the Battleships for a minute, how about fitting out a Cruiser with full T2, you are still looking at a couple of months. Or a Destroyer?

The issue isn't the ship itself, but the time it takes to fit your ship competitively. T2 specialisations take an incredibly long time to the point it turns people off the game before they can even give it a chance.

Something has to be done, the longer it stays this way the more damage is being done to new player retention. CCP knows it, of course they do. Why they are willing to sit around doing nothing is the real question. I'd imagine damaging their existing players pride is part of the reason. But then what is the cost of appeasing to their existing players vanity? Is it worth it when it means turning away 90% of your new players? At some point they are going to have to weigh up the pros and cons and in the end there is only one answer. New players are going to have to start receiving a proper boost in one form or another or the game may not survive another 10 years.

The game could be so much more if it were not so harsh on new players, it saddens me to see so much pride get in the way of greatness.

OK, another brain storm. How about giving all players the chance to purchase SP boosts that will only work up to a given amount of SP. Say a 400% boost to 50mil, then a 300% boost to 70mil, then a 200% boost to 90mil and finally a 100% boost to 100mil. Or something along those lines.

All new players want is the chance to catch up in a meaningful amount of time. Is that really so much to ask?