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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

First post
Author
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2011-10-25 04:27:40 UTC
Lateris wrote:
I am loosing all respect

You should tighten it then.
Toros Revoke
#162 - 2011-10-25 04:33:38 UTC
I've always liked the idea of walking in stations, walking in cells was a tad dull and graphic cpu intensive for what it offered, which was little. But walking in stations is a cool idea that should be implemented (just never **** with my ship spinning again), I'd worry that even seeing another avatar would blow up my computer but as I live in Matar space I pretty much have a private station in every system Big smile
ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#163 - 2011-10-25 04:34:16 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
.
I want stuff and I want it ALL NAOW !!


Yes we know you want WiS. The problem is you cant have it because ...

1. It didn't work in any useful way and was woefully unfinished. True multiplayer WiS was AT LEAST a year away and probably more. It would have lagged like all hell with more than a few players in 1 room and added zero game play because there was no real plan for that game play.

2. CCP simply cant afford it right now. They do not have the cash flow to support the size of development team required.

3. Making WiS work means neglecting Spaceships. And long term players who never post on the forums were voting with their wallets. The majority of people in this game want Spaceships before Avatars.

Yes, in an ideal world with a great Incarna delivery even the most jaded bittervet would get something out of WiS. But that ain't going to happen.

How the hell did this thread get to 13 pages. Are all the Hi Sec Ice miners camped in station and heading for the forums ????


Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#164 - 2011-10-25 04:52:42 UTC
You guys certainly carried on the debate without me. Big smile

Looking over the last few pages of this debate, I've noticed one thing. The two "sides" really aren't that far apart in the final analysis.

Even the most strident Barbie mockers admit that the basic original idea's behind Incarna had merit, but insist that spaceships are the heart and soul of this game and must take priority above all else. Now some admit they don't understand what content could be developed for Incarna that could possibly be as engaging in star ship combat. Others get hung up on EVE being a test bed for the Incarna tech.

Both sides keep explaining their point of view, and the other side either misinterprets it repeatedly or simply doesn't want to hear it.

I'm not going to create a wall of text (I hope) but here are a few pertinent points to consider on both sides.

1) Yes, EVE is a test bed for the Incarna tech. CCP has never kept this a secret. This (in typical Icelandic tradition) hasn't been pointed out by CCP for some time however, as it is considered public knowledge. Somehow the entirely practical idea of developing the same basic tech for both games has turned into a dirty word. EVE is the product that is already out there, of course it's going to be the platform where the stress testing is going to occur (and thankfully so).

2) WOD and Incarna has not been completely shelved. Operating with a reduced staff, yes. As much public attention diverted from it as possible, yes. But it has not been cancelled. This is a good sign for both sides. The focus is on EVE, resources have been reallocated to help address failures in this area for the last 18 months, and yet the potential for taking what they learned (the hard way) and doing it right still exists.

3) Nobody on either side wants Incarna to pull necessary resources from core EVE game play again. Nobody wants Incarna as it ended up to eat up development resources and continue on in the same manner as before. What some want, and what some don't understand, is for Incarna to be developed again but in the right way. If necessary with it's own funding and dev team, independent from what is necessary to keep the solid foundation that is traditional EVE game play alive and growing.

4) If EVE is going to survive it must evolve and grow, both in space and in new area's like Incarna and DUST. Just focusing on space alone will eventually play itself out, there are only so many new ships you can create without becoming redundant. Likewise, focusing too much on other area's will weaken the game as a whole and spell disaster. An intelligent division of resources (time and money) MUST happen for EVE to continue long term. What we have all experienced recently is NOT an intelligent division. Very important side projects endangered the whole through inefficiency, mismanaged resources, an overly optimistic development timeline, and limited duration funding. These failures must NOT happen again, and in fact can be avoided.

5) From the moment CCP first started developing EVE they have had a great vision compared to the rest of the gaming industry, and have literally produced results in many area's that no one else has touched even now, year's later. Where they sometimes fail is in the details of delivering that vision into a reality that everyone can get behind. If they can just get the hang of discussing in detail the future they envision for EVE, then get detailed feedback from us on how we would like to interact with it, and then finally focus their resources on making that fully happen (to completion) with a sensible allocation of resources, we would ALL (CCP included) end up with a thriving gaming universe with plenty of content and variety for everyone.

.... and yes, I see I blew the whole "avoid writing a wall of text" thing. I'll shut up now.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2011-10-25 05:07:41 UTC
Briefly:

There are lots of games where you can walk around and dress up your toon.

There's only one game where you can fly spaceships MMOifficly, and it languished for years in stagnancy to try and put Incarna and Wod and Dust together.

So those of us who play this game for the flying spaceships part were rather upset (and it's not just a minority - there's a lot of players who don't like Incarna that never posted here, as seen by the large numbers of subscriptions dropped) to see Incarna sucking up resources that could've gone to making the spaceships game better.

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#166 - 2011-10-25 05:07:57 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
You guys certainly carried on the debate without me. Big smile

..... stuff.....

.... and yes, I see I blew the whole "avoid writing a wall of text" thing. I'll shut up now.


Hilmar basically said with the 3 additional CQs and some optimizations "we have Incarna and we may come back to it sometime". No one with CCP has said any additional Incarna work is currently planned.

WoD is in life support. Incarna is "done" as far as CCP is concerned and CCP isn't working or even formally planning any additional WiS work.

A lot of folks are going to argue about what constitutes "core game play" and the point of this thread is a lot of us would say that getting us on the other side of that door, even if it is something simple would be something we would trade for what I would call "special interest end game features" that some of the loudest WiS haters claim to be FiS that they feel is all Eve is about.

I would say Eve is intended to be a SciFi simulator and CCP has delivered a lot of space ship SciFi content but WiS is needed in some form to move Eve forward. I think the loudest WiS haters have Hilmar convinced we don't really care about WiS when I think a lot of us do.

Issler


Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#167 - 2011-10-25 05:12:32 UTC
Komen wrote:
Briefly:

There are lots of games where you can walk around and dress up your toon.

There's only one game where you can fly spaceships MMOifficly, and it languished for years in stagnancy to try and put Incarna and Wod and Dust together.

So those of us who play this game for the flying spaceships part were rather upset (and it's not just a minority - there's a lot of players who don't like Incarna that never posted here, as seen by the large numbers of subscriptions dropped) to see Incarna sucking up resources that could've gone to making the spaceships game better.



Could it have been a lot of folks hanging on or even resubbing to check out incarna, seeing what a joke CQ was and then learning not much more was coming or maybe folks upset about the NEX store that made folks leave?

Just as plausible, we had a bunch of folks come back to check out WiS, saw how lame it was as delivered and left as soon as they could.

There are also other MMOs to fly and fight in spaceships. What there isn't is another huge sandbox MMO with a player driven economy.

Issler
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#168 - 2011-10-25 05:17:33 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
The confusion stems from Hilmars recently interview in which he said that 'we may get back to incarna'.


Thats that link I was looking for. Again, ignoring these things is silly

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Mekela
Vinyl Roid
#169 - 2011-10-25 05:26:02 UTC
Trainwreck McGee wrote:
Like you said WiS is dead so please leave EVE and stop posting


I can't believe the idoicy of some people. Yes lets make the game smaller with less subscribers so I can feel special.

I have been playing this game, I have tried most aspects of the game. I have been in a 0.0 alliance, I actually spend alot of time in low sec doing industrial work, I have also done Faction warfare, I have done the industrial, invention, mining, missioning world of high sec. (I started the game in 2006 with red moon rising). I was looking forward to WiS as something new.

Now that CCP in its wisdom of listening to the idiots that think less people would be better for the game and new people suck is the response they decided to go with.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2011-10-25 06:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
.
I want stuff and I want it ALL NAOW !!


Yes we know you want WiS. The problem is you cant have it because ...

1. It didn't work in any useful way and was woefully unfinished. True multiplayer WiS was AT LEAST a year away and probably more. It would have lagged like all hell with more than a few players in 1 room and added zero game play because there was no real plan for that game play.

2. CCP simply cant afford it right now. They do not have the cash flow to support the size of development team required.

3. Making WiS work means neglecting Spaceships. And long term players who never post on the forums were voting with their wallets. The majority of people in this game want Spaceships before Avatars.

Yes, in an ideal world with a great Incarna delivery even the most jaded bittervet would get something out of WiS. But that ain't going to happen.

How the hell did this thread get to 13 pages. Are all the Hi Sec Ice miners camped in station and heading for the forums ????



Next time provide my actual post in the quote instead of twisting it into something completely different in an attempt to justify your failed troll response.

Obviously you only saw what you wanted to see instead of what I actually wrote due to your head being buried in the sand.
Itar Sheep
The Black Sheep Inc
#171 - 2011-10-25 06:26:01 UTC
I'd still like to see WiS, but as well as more FiS not instead.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2011-10-25 06:45:27 UTC
mkint wrote:
hooray, yet another thread about how "I want EVE to die, so I can Barbie!"

edit: and depending on how you interpret the pacing of that interview, it could very easily be that Hilmar's intention is "I am working on FiS because players are making me. Once we've done that with a halfassed winter expansion, the summer is going to be an Apocrypha-sized WIS expansion." And gawd, I hope that's not true, but I have the horrible horrible feeling that it prove to be, and that it will be the final end of EVE.



I've seen you posting your twisted 'Doom and gloom' viewpoints everywhere with the 'Oh no, it's the end of FiS' type attitude if WiS is worked on. Where do you people come from?

Personally I hope your prediction is accurate. I'd love to see all of you closed minded trolls emo rage jump into the nearest Bio-Vat.
EVE Stratics
Doomheim
#173 - 2011-10-25 06:54:21 UTC
+1 for Weapons in Space.
HighChocobo
Raftel Corporation
#174 - 2011-10-25 07:01:41 UTC
WiS should have brought in tons of new players then CCP wouldn't have to rely on these moron Veterans who ruined this possibly revolutionizing tech.

All Eve Online needed was WiS to bring in more casual players. Who cares what insomniac no lifers think when you can cater to sane casual players.


Finish WiS and if you can't do it man up and just say so.


Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#175 - 2011-10-25 07:04:35 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Komen wrote:
Briefly:

There are lots of games where you can walk around and dress up your toon.

There's only one game where you can fly spaceships MMOifficly, and it languished for years in stagnancy to try and put Incarna and Wod and Dust together.

So those of us who play this game for the flying spaceships part were rather upset (and it's not just a minority - there's a lot of players who don't like Incarna that never posted here, as seen by the large numbers of subscriptions dropped) to see Incarna sucking up resources that could've gone to making the spaceships game better.



Could it have been a lot of folks hanging on or even resubbing to check out incarna, seeing what a joke CQ was and then learning not much more was coming or maybe folks upset about the NEX store that made folks leave?

Just as plausible, we had a bunch of folks come back to check out WiS, saw how lame it was as delivered and left as soon as they could.

There are also other MMOs to fly and fight in spaceships. What there isn't is another huge sandbox MMO with a player driven economy.

Issler

Well it was pretty poor when we got CQ's and it appeared that it's only purpose was to be a storefront for the NEX store.

Reading other forums I've seen plenty of posts with people saying that as long as the NEX store remains in EVE they will simply not return.

CCP failed to see that people didn't accept the NEX store and how people have already witnessed what has occured with cash shops in other games. I still remember in LOTRO when Turbine said they wouldn't have any 'gold ammo' items in their cash shop, mysteriously that post has dissapeared from their forum and the game is now full of P2W items. Or go and have a look at APB now and see what G1 are up to there.

Allow the NEX store in the door without protest and I can guarantee you we'll see more and more creeping into it.

Then when you see comments regarding cash shops from people like CCP Zinfandel talking about his $500 sparkle pony (or whatever it was) in WoW and he has a hand in directing EVE's future then you know your in trouble.

Unless EVE is suddenly becoming a themepark game, then cash shop ponies and the like have no place in this sandbox game.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#176 - 2011-10-25 07:15:25 UTC
Montevius Williams wrote:
I think most people DO want walking in stations, just not the way it was implemented.


Yes, indeed. They need to go back to the roots of amublation, they had some very good ideas but lost track of them somewhere between MT and their own hubris.

Players need to run the economy and ISK should fuel it. Nex and Aurum where bad ideas in combation with WiS it limited everyones freedom (including CCP's)

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2011-10-25 07:51:23 UTC
I want WiS, too, but I want new ships and bugs and 0.0 fixed much more.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#178 - 2011-10-25 08:30:12 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
I want WiS, too, but I want new ships and bugs and 0.0 fixed much more.


This really is the right answer. We can have WiS, but it would be likely that the next 2 or so expansions would have very little in space content. If this happened, the player base would massively drop; the graphs don't lie.

I do hope that WiS is still on the backburner though. The true multiplayer incarnation would really add to the atmosphere of the game, even if there is no real content backing it (just poker + corp meeting rooms + public bars). I do hope to see this in maybe 1-1.5 years!
Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2011-10-25 08:37:12 UTC
It isnt about NOT wanting WiS and a full scifi experience, its about DO want betetr spaceships game first and WiS is less important.

This is what the MAJORITY of players want, not what the minority want. Cater to a minority and any game will die. Revenue is from the majority, like it or not, teh majority want a better spaceship game first, a walking around looking pretty game second.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Wacktopia
Noir.
The Network.
#180 - 2011-10-25 09:00:24 UTC
Yeah I would like to see that door opened at some point. WiS was made worse by CQ. Personally, I'd have not gone so overboard on CQ and opened the door to a prublic atrium.

Also, let us close the door to our ship, dammit! X

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com