EVE General Discussion

Zactly! This is that sabotage I was talking about. When your modules are offlined when you undock, you're upset, and you want that fixed. So do I. But fixing little things, here and there, is not a Plan. Adding nebulae, however pretty, is not a Plan. Buffing and nerfing are not a Plan.

Incarna, however, was a Plan. And I daresay, expanding into 3D virtual reality was the logical, and inevitable evolutionary development for EVE -- if, for nothing else, because gaming is not standing still: we're on the verge of an era where a more immersive virtual reality gaming will be a reality. If not done by CCP, then by its competitors.

Now, Incarna wasn't introduced properly. With WoD and DUST, CCP had taken on way more than they could handle, leaning too heavily on their cash-cow EVE. Naturally they had hoped their other two titles would start to generate big bucks, for EVE too, but that didn't transpire. The result? They rushed out Incarna, with no other content yet than a NeX store, hoping to recoup a bit of their overextended investement. That failed too.

Still, doesn't mean Incarna was a bad Plan. And don't tell me, in mournful numbers, Incarna offers no real content, because it was about to (CCP had big plans for it). CCP wanted to open that door, but you yourselves forced it shut. I mean, when you're building a home, and they just finished the foundation, you don't scream at the contractor for not having a roof yet, do you?! No, you let the man do his job, and you'll have something sweet to look on the next year.

CCP simply needs to stick to their Plan, and not abandon Incarna. They should not have taken away so many resources from FiS; but that has ultimately more to do with WoD and DUST than WiS per se.

What you described here, no offense, is merely the definition of short-sightedness and impatience. CCP had laid the foundation for endless new gameplay. You just couldn't wait a few months longer: new content, beyond the door, was already announced for the Winter expansion. And the sky would have been the limit, from there on in. Incarna would have been a major step forward; but you made them take it back, because 'actual gameplay' to you apparently means having it all NOW. You do your generation proud.


No, what pissed people off (and rightly so) was the NeX store. People are not very good at separating issues, though: "Me mad at NeX, me mad at Incarna! Grrr!"

It's not really that simple. Of course the NeX is horrible and people are upset about it but players were just as mad about the poor performance of the CQ, the lack of any meaningful game mechanics, and the fact that CCP admitted that Incarna was being used as a testbed for the WoD game. Also removing the old hangar view and replacing it with a static picture of a door was just insulting.

If CCP had gone into Incarna with the idea that it would enhance the core gamplay of Eve (internet spaceships) they might have succeeded but when they came up with some nebulous idea of a "total scifi emulator" and then decided to use the same engine for an unrelated game it all fell apart and Eve suffered from it. CCP finally came to their senses and have begun the process of fixing what went wrong but threads like this aren't helping them do that.

Seriously, lay off the flying-in-space aspect already. We've got more than enough flying in spaceships.

Apparently none of it with enough staying power to keep most people subbed beyond 6 months.

That interview is actually part lie and out of date. 80% was working on WoD with a "science fair" project to test stuff in Eve. Later CCP statements and dev posts have said "WiS is "on ice indefinitely".

That is why I started this thread.

Issler

I disagree with you putting the blame on WOD and DUST for this fiasco. The whole problem is that Incarna wasn't a proper plan for EVE. It was corporate strategy, a little vision and tech testing without the plan. The two things I've heard about the actual gameplay of Incarna were, that there weren't any concrete plans just vague ideas and that the people who had played what was there found it boring, so they had to start rethinking the whole thing. Point being it wasn't just an issue with a bad introduction of a well thought out plan, that was just about to deliver amazing things. It was a bad intoduction of a tech test and an MT store, that CCP were going to do something interesting with in the future to justify it to us. FFS they only got one small room ready in time and that barely worked with a single person in it. The incarna project was not ready for primetime by any stretch of the imagination. They just hoped they could make something of it later on and that we would bare with it.

I do agree that the avatar based gameplay is a natural evolution for EVE and that CCP needs to keep developing it, but I'm also glad that the current "plan" failed horribly. The old plan wasn't primarily about bringing good things to EVE or enhancing EVEs gameplay. It was about testing technology, bringing micro transactions to EVE and as a side benefit allowing us to walk in a station with little thought given to the gameplay it would provide. It was a corporate strategy driven project with some future vision mixed in. Yes the NEX would have been implemented without WiS, but in a feature with no concrete gameplay plans it's striking that the one thing CCP had planned for was tying the customization options to a MT store.

I think putting the Incarna project on a slow burner for a few months will actually do a lot of good for it in the long run. It allows CCP to come up with a concrete plan for it and think of ways it brings actual gameplay value to EVE in addition to helping achieve their company's stategic goals. It also allows the tech to be improved to the point multiplayer areas become playable in the first place. Maybe next time they can offer something the players actually want to play, so they don't have to try and force people to go use the new content against their will.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm sure not everyone will agree that there are any advantages to WiS, however, there are many who will enjoy WiS.

WiS will provide a more comfy way for newbies to be introduced to eve. It will provide better way of passing the time waiting for the next fleet op (I know everyone likes to pretend they pewpew 110% of the time, but admit it, theres a lot of station spinning too =P) Customizable avatars has been a major seller on the internet since the early 90's. I remember when they sold customizable avatars for AIM/Yahoo etc even. Look at n64's customizable Bomberman characters. Its something people enjoy. If you dont, fine, but many people do. Adding this to eve would add that much more realisim, and add yet another thing to do in eve.

What i love about eve (besides the fact i can play for free!) is the vast number of things you can do in it. Hack/Arch, Missions, Manufacutring, Invention, Hauling and Trading, Pirating, Wormholes, PI, Incursions, are some of the most obvious... It caters to a large number of different play styles. WiS will cater to people who want to identify more with their character, and dress them up, etc

Again, you might not enjoy that, but many people do. Just look at Team Fortress 2... AKA Hat Fortress 2 AKA Team Hatress 2, AKA Internet Hat Simulator

lol, first you ask players to post how WiS could add new game content to eve and when they do, you don't want to see it and just continue with your rant. That type of reaction and attitude along with your statement about wet dreams due to WiS tears is largely viewed as a pre-teen mentality. Definitely not the actions associated with a mature adult or someone that's been playing this game since what, 2003? Yeah, right.

By the way, this is my main character. I don't hide behind a forum posting alt.




Well, since you asked, I'll go with "your computer is sh!t, get a new one."

(tl;dr I've worked in software for long enough (decades) to spot a failing project by now. WiS was never going to deliver anything useful before the game stagnated totally and so they killed it - so stop moaning. you ain't getting it back)

Anyone who thinks that WiS was just stopped because of players moaning clearly hasn't worked in the software industry.

It is clear that WiS was consuming a large number of resources, detracting from the bit of the game that had actual game play (FiS) and after a huge amount of work had delivered what? a character that could move about a bit in a room. The character rendering bit must have taken a huge amount of work all by itself.

As someone who works in the software industry myself and if it was my project to run I'd be looking at what they have done so far and thinking: it's going to be more than a year maybe two before it delivers even basic gameplay features and in the meantime the thing that works and brings in money will have stayed still for a long long time.

CCP had made some stupid decisions and not realised the consequences of them until now. But having finally done so they have sensibly drawn a line and changed tack before it killed them.

If it was me - I'd be looking for an off the shelf graphics engine and working primarily on the 'WiS' gameplay, assuming they have even thought that far, and even then it's a *huge* amount of work from here to there.

And as for that gameplay - what is it going to be? If it's mini-games then all the people categorised as 'care bears' won't be interested - we are all busy flying around. If it's part of the whole eve thing - how soon before people are 'ganked' in a station with a head full of expensive implants before there are endless tears on here.

Anyway I'd quit moaning - they killed it because it wasn't going to deliver anything not because of players moaning. The moaning was just a useful peg to hang it all on.