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CCP! Please clarify the future plans for WiS!

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Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#381 - 2011-10-26 09:25:41 UTC
Posting in this thread to confirm that I did want walking in stations.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Pent'nor
#382 - 2011-10-26 11:14:42 UTC
I never felt the need to post in forums before I read that last interview. If ccp does actually listen to these things, then I want to voice that I want WIS!

However the wis that I imagine is basically another game in itself, not just walking around and socializing. I don't care if it takes many more years to get to a point where it is possible to interact with wis on a scale like that, but I do want to know that there is a team working on it. I'd like to see a balance between the wis and fis development teams. I don't care about wod. I'm not paying ccp so they can make a different game for a different universe. I give them money because I like the eve universe and want to see it developed! ccp should think of incarna as a framework that can be reused in another game like wod, NOT make make wod which requires incarna.

I do eventually get bored with fis and then i'll jump to another game to have my avatar experience. Sometimes I keep my sub and sometimes I don't because I will only pay for one game at a time.

I believe in the ccp's vision with eve/dust and wis(incarna), however, I want to know that they are actively pursuing that vision. It was one that I found so amazing and aspiring that even if they do say it will take a few years for them to accomplish, that I will continue to give them my sub money, even if I'm not actively playing the game.
URDEAD2ME
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#383 - 2011-10-26 11:22:14 UTC
screw WiS ,


FiS is what needs the work and ballance.
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#384 - 2011-10-26 11:36:06 UTC
Alpheias wrote:


I think this thread only served to highlight the number of male players out there that wanted to play with Barbie dolls than GI Joe when they were young but couldn't because of (sadly) expectations and established gender roles.

What's next? A lot of male players that wish that they could get pregnant?



This character is modelled on two local people whom are involved in business. When I ended up with a Corp that I didn't want I realised that I had a name for a character because one of the two people whom this is modelled on runs a similar business to what the Corp was originally planned to do.

So, then it became a logical progression until Myfanwy was created. Similar things could be said of my two other characters.

And I see them as human, not male/female. At least I don't go around playing a snotty nosed orc as per other games.

I've read books where the protagonist was a different gender or even race to the author's. Does that mean that we should read somethign sinister into that?

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Valari Nala Zena
Perkone
Caldari State
#385 - 2011-10-26 11:57:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Valari Nala Zena
Ghoest wrote:
The OP is wrong - only a small minority actively want WIS.


Many of us think it could be nice if done right - but we dont want to sacrifice any of the spaceship development for it.


How can you even know what is a minority and not, these forums are probably filled with trolls who like nothing less to cause hate and discontent, but to say that is the majority of EVE is probably not true.

i think empire has probably the biggest population and probably represents the biggest EVE player base, but they would probably be the minority on these forums.
If true, then this would mean this forum is a bad indication of what represents the EVE player base.

Abandon WiS and you might keep most of the forum people happy, but i'm pretty confident that there are lot of people who have been looking forward to WiS for many years live in empire and are probably not really the people you see around trolling these forums.

We all know EVE is unique and not for everyone.
Most people on the forum would probably agree with the statement that World of Warcraft sucks.
Does that mean it's true? **** no, how can it, they have over 10 millions subscribers, how can that be a failure.

The question is, what does CCP want the end result of WiS to be.

1) They can make WiS true to EVE Online aka being able to be a bad boy/girl and beat up people and steal their NeX clothes and whatnot.

2) They can make WiS more like WoW, i'd call it, the rage of the trolls,forums would be filled with spam posts and tears.
But if done right, it could potentially attract a HUGE amount of new players and more then compensate for the people leaving due to WoW online.

3) Abandon WiS, keeping focused on FiS.

2* being the biggest risk, but could potentially make the game a financial success or the biggest failure.

1* will probably keep the current player base relatively happy, people who don't like it just won't use it.

3* is a mistake imo, there are so many people i know who have been waiting for WiS, i think you would lose a lot of empire people over it, and i'd think the majority of the people spending time on the forum wouldn't mind that.
Ghoest
#386 - 2011-10-26 12:18:07 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
The OP is wrong - only a small minority actively want WIS.


Many of us think it could be nice if done right - but we dont want to sacrifice any of the spaceship development for it.


And yet the thread that is in support of the FiS only focus has something like 9 posts and 12 likes and this one is still active, 15 pages and has nearly 500 likes.

You must have some other sort of sampling method for lack of support for WiS because honestly, I am seeing even more support than I could have hoped for in these forums.

Issler



Ya - my sampling was the massive response players had when they realized CCP had spent the last 18 months not developing any new space ship and industry content.

You remember when about 25% of the players canceled subscriptions.
We didnt play this game for years with the primary intent of funding the creation of barbi dolls in space.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Bomberlocks
Bombercorp
#387 - 2011-10-26 12:20:11 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
...
So Simple correction. While I might seem to be a "high sec" representative, that is not all that I am. I am one of the rare low sec dwellers. I know, a care bear low sec-er!!! How can that be?? I've been playing this as my main game for 7 years and have multiple accounts, I've been in the CSM twice, have caps of my own, lived in low sec, been part of two of the biggest null sec alliances to date. Other than building my own outpost (which I consider my personal end game) there isn't much in Eve I haven't done. I'm even one of the dozen or so people that have made Eve news make the main steam press. I'm not pointing that out for my ego, personally I wish the two incidents that made that happen wouldn't have. I'm just saying I know a little about Eve.

What I have chosen over the last couple of years would be to build what most folks would call a care bear alliance. I don't know why but that sort of cat herding is what I seem to enjoy the most. I continue to fight to try an create something in Eve that shows folks not falling into the easy path of finding your inner asshat you can act in a friendly and helpful way to other folks in Eve. Basically I'm one of the minority that still tries to live by NRDS. Can't say I always have success but I think in a lot of ways what I'm trying to accomplish is every bit has hard as 0.0 sov. Maybe, maybe not, but Eve is all about finding what YOU want to focus your time on.

So I started this thread after seeing player after player get tired of the limits of the pod and ships as the only part of the SciFi sim they thought they signed up for. I saw a lot of ex players come back when what CCP tried to pass off as Incarna was released. Very few stayed, not because there wasn't enough FiS, they left because they saw that CCP lied about ambulation and clearly was using Eve to pay for WoD and Dust. They left because they realized CCP was more interested in squeezing more cash from us in the NeX store than delivering the WiS experience that they have teased us with for nearly 5 years.

So as a person that I think I could make a case for that has committed more to Eve that 90% of the other players I believe the future success of Eve depends on showing us that this is a SciFi simulator and not just more ships of different sizes 'sploding each other in space. I firmly believe WiS needs to happen to save Eve because without it the player base will never grow beyond the peaks it has seen before.

I share that thought in these forums but when you characterize me or what I am trying to accomplish in this discussion please make sure you know of what you speak.

Issler

That was quite a lot of words to avoid responding to the point, Issler. Whether you're a nullsec sovholder or hisec miner makes no difference: CCP was bleeding subs so heavily this year that they may very have had to shut down by next year had they not refocused on FiS. Since they have done that, the PCU numbers have started to climb again and the winter expansion, where a lot of the promised features and fixes will be rolled out, will tell whether it was the right or wrong business decision.

If CCP thinks they can save the business by focussing on FiS, then that is what they will do. CCP made some very bad business decisions in the past and their attempted money grabs in the form of :$99 dollah: and Monoclegate left them in a very weak state.

Winter will be the make or break expansion to see if the FiS features will bring back all the unsubbed bittervets, who are mostly still waiting for what-they-do-not-what-they-say.

And I say again, when and if business has picked up again, Dust has launched and there is a period of relative calm and satisfaction, then CCP will most likely go back to developing WiS, but until then WiS will remain the corpses of the pods that were popped using rebalanced Hybrids and T3 BCs.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#388 - 2011-10-26 13:55:21 UTC
I think that the whole point is:

CCP, struggle for the middle point!

Don't go from neglecting FiS to neglecting WiS.

Because FiS is seriously faulty to some people, and they may need WiS to get new gameplay.

A better FiS will preserve subscriptors, but won't atract them. Where EVE has got room to grow is on casual, solo and non-FiS content.

Personally, I have a hope that we may get something of WiS for the next expansion (Summer 2012). Also would like to see something in the lines of my signature, as i am growing bored and the existing gameplay doesn't helps to keep me in this game.

Also, once we get Incarna, it would be fine if it provided something like this: Suggested Incarna features

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Dax Golem
Frozen Dawn Inc
#389 - 2011-10-26 13:55:49 UTC
Impliment WiS with a poker room and I'm sold! Shocked

You are now breathing manually
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#390 - 2011-10-26 13:58:46 UTC
I wouldn't ask for Spaceships in World of Warcraft.

I don't want pointless no-content Avatars in my Economic/Spaceship/Combat Simulator Game EVE.

If WiS can be developed, with real actual content, without hurting or slowing development os the space/economic portions of EVE, then by all means go right ahead.

But if WiS Development in any way disrupts, slows or interferes with FiS Development, then I would not prefer WiS at all.

To each their own. This is my view. EVE is not for Avatars. EVE is for Spaceships, Space Combat, A Semi-Sandbox and Economics.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#391 - 2011-10-26 14:04:44 UTC
Without reading all 20 pages of crap in this thread I just have this to say...

I have yet to see any Dev Blog or interview or anything that has stated CCP has shelved or stopped working on WiS. What I did read is that they are refocusing on EvE and FiS. Again I didn't see anything saying they have given up on either WiS or WoD. Unless someone has a link that specifically states otherwise I would take this to mean that they are still working on WiS as well as WoD but with less of a focus on them and more on EvE and Spaceships in Space.

I still fully expect to see a completed WiS and fully expect them to continue work on it. Not to do so would be a massive waste of time and resources already spent on it...especially when it is almost complete.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#392 - 2011-10-26 14:10:56 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Don't go from neglecting FiS to neglecting WiS.

Because FiS is seriously faulty to some people, and they may need WiS to get new gameplay.

A better FiS will preserve subscriptors, but won't atract them. Where EVE has got room to grow is on casual, solo and non-FiS content.




A good point. FiS needs to be repaired to stop the subscription rot. There is no doubt about that.

Since it could be argued that at the moment WiS has no real function they could turn it off and concentrate on the core of the FiS game.

If some time from now, be it one day, one week, one month or one year, the subscriptions rise and they have development funds to address WiS properly then I have, and never have had, issues with WiS.

The main problem with WiS is that it was badly planned. Yes, they may have had pipe-dreams for WiS but their strategic planning seemed to be non-existant. Heck, we can't even ambulate properly nor should the clothes become lycra shorts when walking.

If CCP sort this WiS mess out then all well and good. I have always had my doubts as to whether then can and will but, in the end. we shall see. I've always wanted to be the person in charge of a stargate, "Take that through here, guv, North of LoSec? This time of night? You're 'aving a larf, aren't you, guv?"

One day with WiS we may. But I doubt it. I've never opposed WiS but I doubt that it can be done and if it can't be done right then it should be dropped. if it adds and expands FiS then go for it. But only when FiS is fixed and there's more resources to go around.

And, no, I am not a WiS hater. Never have been. I am just doubting both that it can be delivered and that players will use what I image WiS should do fully.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?
Qansh
Triskelion Ouroboros
#393 - 2011-10-26 14:22:14 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I think that the whole point is:

CCP, struggle for the middle point!

Middle is my middle name and I endorse this sentiment wholeheartedly!
Pent'nor
#394 - 2011-10-26 14:29:47 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Without reading all 20 pages of crap in this thread I just have this to say...

I have yet to see any Dev Blog or interview or anything that has stated CCP has shelved or stopped working on WiS. What I did read is that they are refocusing on EvE and FiS. Again I didn't see anything saying they have given up on either WiS or WoD. Unless someone has a link that specifically states otherwise I would take this to mean that they are still working on WiS as well as WoD but with less of a focus on them and more on EvE and Spaceships in Space.

I still fully expect to see a completed WiS and fully expect them to continue work on it. Not to do so would be a massive waste of time and resources already spent on it...especially when it is almost complete.



Eurogamer: Regarding Incarna, we were expecting to have the other Captain's Quarters by now, along with the first steps towards station Establishments. Is there still a development roadmap for Incarna?

Hilmar Pétursson: We're releasing the racial variants of the Captain's Quarters this year and that's mainly because we had that work completed. It also includes some optimisations and other fixes. I think the community has spoken loud and clear that they want more classical Eve features to come out, and that's the priority for us. Incarna is there, and we might pick it up at some point later down the line, but the voice of the community is quite clear. People want more spaceships, and more flying in space features. That's very much what we are responding to.


This is the part of the interview that got me thinking wis is done, which may mean forever because they seemed to be just making the incarna stuff as a testing platform for world of darkness. And as many fis ppl know, if ccp says something to the extent of yeah sure, we will fix that or add to it more later, that can mean never. I don't want them to stop developing for fis or wis. There should be some sort of balance between the two. Or at very least say we have a small team for wis, but the focus is on this winters expansion. After the winter expansion, (and if need be the dust release), i'd like to see a balance between the the two aspects of wis/fis.
Devil's Call
Social safety
#395 - 2011-10-26 14:45:58 UTC
I'm almost ashamed to admit it with all the haters around, but I too like the idea of WiS.

I think it would be a nice addition to the game to be able to walk around in stations, playing some minigames, harrasing some WT's who dock in the same station, checking out some hot exotic dancers, trading some drugs, etc. I think it will be nice for the times that I am too lame to do anything and just 'sit' in a station playing the market a little.

Just my opinion. I know the haters think that it will actually ruin the game. (Because WiS will remove the ability to fly spaceships, and such.)
Sturmwolke
#396 - 2011-10-26 14:47:24 UTC
Qansh wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
I think that the whole point is:

CCP, struggle for the middle point!

Middle is my middle name and I endorse this sentiment wholeheartedly!


"Middle point" is what actually got them into this mess in the first place.
When you chase 2-3 rabbits at the same time, you're not going to be very good at chasing each one of them.
They need to be more focused in their strategies, with better aims that returns more solid value (that don't end up as ****).

Again, another EVE gameplay mechanic lesson.
Recall the concept of min-maxing your ship's (weapon mix and tank) configuration?
The middle-point don't get you the best returns.

P.S At this rate, we can start a class on "EVE Gameplay Mechanics 101 : How Does That Apply to the Real World" for CCP folks.
Merlin Centarii
Sundown Logistics
#397 - 2011-10-26 15:24:46 UTC
Seriously, quit whining.
This game is about internet spaceships first and foremost. They can work on WiS, however when the focus went to WiS, this game went in the crapper. I don't care about spaceship barbie, if you want it fine, but i do want content for the game i pay for. NOT an add-on that strays from what i pay for.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#398 - 2011-10-26 16:08:42 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Agreed on the trolling, and yes these same points keep being brought up as new folks chime in.

As for the comment that WIS should be a distant thought for now, I can't get behind that one.

No offense, but I think now is the time for a small group of content designers to be thinking seriously about what the game plan (and game play) is going to be once they get to the point where they can think about starting work with it again.

I'm not talking a massive team, just those that specialize in the broad strokes... taking some time over the next few months to get their head around the concepts discussed in this thread and others... and figure out how to get things moving in the right direction without shooting themselves (and EVE's core game play) in the foot again.

They seriously need to set up a white board like they did for organizing their thoughts on the purpose and organization of Null Sec and establish some guidelines and goals, and define the lines they should never cross again.

I think this thread did serve a purpose, trolls aside. People on both sides of the debate found a bit of common ground, and most have acknowledged the sane points that were made on both sides.

That's pretty rare on this forum.

And perhaps, if/when WIS is looked at again in the future, this thread might just have some influence on the decisions that will be made. Anything that can help CCP to avoid causing anger on one side and disappointment on the other is a plus, however it turns out.


You know, I'm not opposed to your proposal at all. As people probably know by now my personal opposition to Incarna is NeX/MT + bad engine + no content.

If they have a tight group of designers go back and look at it again and perhaps base a redesign around a licensed unreal engine


Theyre using Unreal 3 for Dust... why not scrap the unusable engine they have now and use that here too? Tie WiS development with Dust rather than tying WiS development with WoD (as thats just as dead as it gets)

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#399 - 2011-10-26 16:14:57 UTC
Valari Nala Zena wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
The OP is wrong - only a small minority actively want WIS.


Many of us think it could be nice if done right - but we dont want to sacrifice any of the spaceship development for it.


How can you even know what is a minority and not, these forums are probably filled with trolls who like nothing less to cause hate and discontent


no offense, but I group people that want CCP to continue work on WiS in that group.
CCP got DAMAGED AS A COMPANY in part because of the failure of this product. Its not THAT incredibly surprising theyre backing off is it?
You put your hand on a hot stove. Do you
a.) take your hand away and not do that again
b.) keep it there because something good may come of it later
?

As Ive said before, CCP needs time to HEAL as a company before they do anything other than FiS.
Let them heal ffs. Unless you would rather not have the company making the game and you somehow think youll still have your mini game?

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Astor Daeoli
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#400 - 2011-10-26 16:19:00 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Valari Nala Zena wrote:
Ghoest wrote:
The OP is wrong - only a small minority actively want WIS.


Many of us think it could be nice if done right - but we dont want to sacrifice any of the spaceship development for it.


How can you even know what is a minority and not, these forums are probably filled with trolls who like nothing less to cause hate and discontent


no offense, but I group people that want CCP to continue work on WiS in that group.
CCP got DAMAGED AS A COMPANY in part because of the failure of this product. Its not THAT incredibly surprising theyre backing off is it?
You put your hand on a hot stove. Do you
a.) take your hand away and not do that again
b.) keep it there because something good may come of it later
?

As Ive said before, CCP needs time to HEAL as a company before they do anything other than FiS.
Let them heal ffs. Unless you would rather not have the company making the game and you somehow think youll still have your mini game?


a. CCP take you hand away from the WiS hot stove NOW Big smile